1. #6821
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Things have to be promises to be expected?
    Yes, without the promise, it’s just a desire. A promise is what creates the expectation.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  2. #6822
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Things have to be promises to be expected?

    Trump took hostile actions against Cuba to spite Obama. Biden could but hasn’t rectified that situation.
    i dont think its much of a priority, also you seem upset that biden isnt doing exactly what you wanted, what did you expect?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Not sure if you aware, but military families aren’t exactly bringing in good money, with many lower enlisted living below or at the poverty line.
    its the procurement thats a complete racket

  3. #6823
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Why any increase? Just a slight little 13 billion dollars. Do that for for a few years and suddenly we are near 800bn.
    What's inflation projected to be for 2021?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

  4. #6824
    Quote Originally Posted by Howel View Post
    Well isn't it the Heritage foundation that also came out with stuff like, Universal care would save billions of dollars and many a lives would be improved, and immigration was pretty vital the US economy and stuff like that?

    I at least seem to recall stuff like that, which, kind of shows just how bad they are at even reining in their think tanks, to be purely spin machines.
    I'm pretty sure the Heritage Foundation is the one that floated and supported the insurance mandate as an answer to universal healthcare, until Obama co-opted it.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  5. #6825
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Not sure if you aware, but military families aren’t exactly bringing in good money, with many lower enlisted living below or at the poverty line.

    And I’m mean, you can’t expect their pay to remain the same year after year. The rent (BAH) for our area was just increased this year. They have to adjust pay for things like that, you know?
    You’ve already posted in the past that a lot of the military budget doesn’t actually go towards families but other endeavours.

  6. #6826
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Not sure if you aware, but military families aren’t exactly bringing in good money, with many lower enlisted living below or at the poverty line.

    And I’m mean, you can’t expect their pay to remain the same year after year. The rent (BAH) for our area was just increased this year. They have to adjust pay for things like that, you know?
    Rent and shit goes up but the pay hasn't?

    Comrade Blossom, are you finding trouble with Glorious Capitalist Society?
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  7. #6827
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Do you not understand that the military, just like civilians, need to have pay increases to adjust to the current economy? Of course it’s going to get raised every few years.
    Oh so you mean our budget is so huge because of just pay increases? No projects no purchases? No utter waste of resources on expensive military contracts for procurement?

    I thought my last comment made it clear that I am not taking issue with pay increases, instead I have issue with every other part of our spending.

  8. #6828
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Do you not understand that the military, just like civilians, need to have pay increases to adjust to the current economy? Of course it’s going to get raised every few years.
    Cool: the military can get a raise when the civilian sector does.

    Until that time they need to finish their existing high tech money pit before they can have dessert.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #6829
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Civilian employees are also included in the raise.
    I'm not talking about civilian employees of the military, sweaty.

    Again: you can get your raises when everyone else does. If you don't like it, maybe stop wasting the money you're given on nonsense projects like the F-35 and the LCS? /shrug
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  10. #6830
    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Of course there are other things. Here’s an article on it: https://www.defensenews.com/breaking...re-priorities/
    So the budget doesn't need to increase to give raises... it could shrink by lowering our spending in other areas.

    And like Elegiac mentions... it's probably a better idea to raise wages for everyone not just those in the military and those adjacent to it.

    Especially given the utter waste of military spending...

  11. #6831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Are you referring to military members paychecks getting raised? Cause that happens every year. I don’t really care about the rest of the shit, unless it has to do with building better housing and facilities on the bases, like updating schools, etc.
    So yeah: you don't need a budget increase. You just want one without having to sacrifice aforementioned nonsense pork projects.

    The Armed Forces has more than sufficient funding. Get better at living within your means, Chiefs of Staff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  12. #6832
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    So yeah: you don't need a budget increase. You just want one without having to sacrifice aforementioned nonsense pork projects.

    The Armed Forces has more than sufficient funding. Get better at living within your means, Chiefs of Staff.
    https://iop.harvard.edu/get-involved...-greatest-army

    Another impetus for fraud stems from the blank checks that the Pentagon writes to contractors. The most common method of winning contracts is through the “cost-plus” contracting system, in which the government reimburses contractor expenses and tacks on a commission as profit. According to Hartung, the system works in such a way that “the more work [contractors] do, the more profit they get, even if their work is inefficient. … It basically says, ‘If you spend a billion dollars building a weapons system, you’ll get a 10 percent profit or $100 million.’” Essentially, for contractors, “you do better if you are wasteful.”

    One way defense companies are able to push for contracts and sell their products is by lobbying the government. In an interview with the HPR, Harvard Kennedy School lecturer Mark Fagan explained that companies lobby in order to build and articulate strategy on policy issues. He states that defense companies pay large sums of money, sometimes in the form of campaign contributions, to gain the ear of a congressperson or a Pentagon official. Corporations can then influence their member of government to fight against sequester cuts to defense spending, push for their contracts, and more. Such spending has swelled the military industry to become the eighth-largest lobbying sector in the nation, spending well over $100 million annually on lobbying the government. Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Honeywell International, and Northrop Grumman are among the top spenders.

    However, while defense companies spend tens of millions of dollars trying to win the ears of politicians, they reap billions in return. U.S. government defense spending currently totals slightly less than one-fifth of the $3.8 trillion federal budget. While corporate lobbying seems to be at least partially responsible for the bloated defense budget, Fagan argues that defense companies are simply trying to sell their wares to consumers: the government. As he states, “Marketing buys you an ear … to have your perspective on the table.” Defense companies are working against “a lot of competing pressures for those Pentagon dollars,” he added, referring to competition between defense companies like Boeing, Lockheed Martin, BAE Systems, and others to sell their products to the government.
    I don't think blossom is considering this and just sees "higher wages for my husband" and that's that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    They do need it because the have to adjust to pay increases, etc... but if they didn’t have all the other stuff, which I’m not going to say is needed or not, since I’m not working with the DoD and can’t say how important things like shipbuilding really is. But I’m sure if they did away with certain things that were less of a priority (if there are any), that they wouldn’t need a larger budget increase.

    Again, though, I don’t know what is top priority and what’s not, as I’m sure most of us don’t either. We can only assume those ships aren’t important because... “reasons”.
    The budget doesn't need to increase in order to increase wages... and "top priority" just seems like BS when it comes to the government. Wasting over a trillion on a dodo plane and their grand plan is to spend even more and give patronage to the same companies all over again.

  13. #6833
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I don't think blossom is considering this and just sees "higher wages for my husband" and that's that.
    The US Military wastes a lot of money. This is bad.
    That waste is exacerbated by lobbying. That is extra bad.
    Serviceman still deserve to be paid better. This is good

    Would it be better to fix problem #3 by fixing problem #1&2? Yes.
    Is it faster, easier and more humane to fix problem #3 immediately and deal with problem #1&2 later? Yes.

    I'll take the more humane solution.

  14. #6834
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The US Military wastes a lot of money.
    You have no earthly idea. They trained us to intentionally be wasteful to justify our budget.

    They literally told us to make sure we used all of anything we were given even if we didn’t need it otherwise we might be given less next time.

    Also, they treated the vehicles with a “drive it like you stole it” and if it breaks, it gets fixed by them and further justifies their budget.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  15. #6835
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    I'll take the more humane solution.
    In what world is neglecting the civilian sector because it's easier to stay the course of bloating the military budget humane? Lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #6836
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    You have no earthly idea.
    I’ve heard plenty of stories over the years.

    I would still prefer that the troops get better pay even if it means maintaining the waste.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    In what world is neglecting the civilian sector because it's easier to stay the course of bloating the military budget humane? Lol.
    The US government neglects the civilian sector because the US government hates poor people. If it reigned in the military budget it would still go out of its way to fuck the poor. One really has little to do with the other.

  17. #6837
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    The US government neglects the civilian sector because the US government hates poor people. If it reigned in the military budget it would still go out of its way to fuck the poor. One really has little to do with the other.
    So at best nothing improves but we cut back on wasteful spending on the military?

    That's also good.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #6838
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Now, let’s scale that up to every echelon. The mandate of spend every dollar has been a thing for a long time and it’s a reason project budgets get insane for any new equipment. Getting less money next year when you may need more is usually the excuse/fear they use to justify this.
    If we just increase the budget for wasteful pet projects then surely the wealth will trickle down to your rank and file service member and civilian contractor... /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  19. #6839
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    So at best nothing improves but we cut back on wasteful spending on the military?

    That's also good.
    At best the lives of the average troop improves.

    I also addressed the second point. The problem is you would have to entirely disrupt the whole lobbying mechanism in the US. It’s a great idea and necessary but it’s also a shit ton of work and would be very challenging. It should be done but in the interim I’ll give the troops some extra money.

  20. #6840
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    The civilian contractors get paid so much “retiring” early is a major career path for many military members.
    Not talking about corporate folk at Lockheed or Boeing, I mean the folks on the ground actually producing the materiel.

    Boeing's union has done far more for guaranteeing its employees a decent living than any military pork project - which is the point. Insisting that the bloated budget needs to be maintained for the sake of the average joe is some trickle down level nonsense on par with how the US throws money into healthcare and education for mediocre results.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

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