Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[uuuhname]

That's the problem. You guys keep calling on Biden and this administration to keep spending more and more, but none of you seem to want to put in more and more.

We do face systemic issues, like massive debt... and you support it all. You want to keep pushing those deficits, and raising that debt. You want to raise tax revenue, but have no desire to be a part of that increase. Someone else will pay for it.

"Someone else will pay for it."

It's literally the only argument you guys have.

Thank God that there's sane people in the Democratic Party who won't go along with it.

and watch as the GOP wins in 2022 and is given a chance to win in 2024. great job. you're the only selfish person here, you're the one that demands everyone else make their lives worse to make you happy.

[Stormspellz]

I am calling for some actual fiscal responsibility from this administration. Or, are you saying it's off topic, because there's no shot in hell that would ever happen, so even talking about it is simply an exercise in futility?

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no you are calling for fiscal fantasy, as usual. And like the republican talking points, the math never adds up

[Machismo]

Marking up the price of a good or service beyond the cost of production and distribution is an inefficiency, hun.

You've just been conditioned to view that sort of inefficiency as acceptable.

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Because it is still a waste of time, resources, and personnel beyond the sticker price?

But, you don't care about those things, because money and debt are somehow meaningless on your world. After all, you don't give a shit about the debt, as per your own words.

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no you are calling for fiscal fantasy, as usual. And like the republican talking points, the math never adds up

It's a fantasy to think stopping spending increases for 5 years is a worthwhile endeavor?

Or, should we ust keep saddling future generations with more and more debt?

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and watch as the GOP wins in 2022 and is given a chance to win in 2024. great job. you're the only selfish person here, you're the one that demands everyone else make their lives worse to make you happy.

The GOP may win in 2022, and 2024. They will pretend to care about the deficit, just like Democrats pretend to care about the environment. Democrats could destroy the GOP once and for all, if they actually became the party of fiscal responsibility.

I'm not the one literally demanding that other people pay more and more for all the shit that I want. They make memes about entitled people like that.

[uuuhname]

They make memes about entitled people like that.

and they make plenty of memes about how dumb libertarianism is, what's your point?

[Machismo]

yeah and they make plenty of memes about how dumb libertarianism is, what's your point?

I'm not the selfish one, that's the point.

You are literally calling on other people to pay more and more, just to support the standard of living you want.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/selfish

Yep, that fits!!!

Now, why should anyone who actually earns their keep, or produces things for profit, actually want to work with the progressive wing of the Democratic party? What do you have to offer, besides taxing them?

[Elegiac]

Profit is a goal of a capitalistic endeavor, not a government one.

That's nice, but it doesn't mean profit isn't inefficient.

Government has no pushing drive to become more efficient

They do: a surplus of earnings is generally required to be reinvested.

Profit is the equivalent of a government department not using its entire budget and keeping the rest just for lulz.

and when I called for more efficiency, every fucking one of you whined at the idea.

Mainly because your version of efficiency resembles nonfunctionality, lol.

Profit motive, along with competition, is how businesses become more efficient. It's how products become cheaper to make.

But not necessarily cheaper to buy, usually because of the profit motive. Womp womp.

If government departments literally do what they can to secure more funding, then efficiency can actually harm their chances of achieving funding, sweaty.

"If government departments try to secure more money than what they need to break even with the goods/services they require (i.e. a profit), that actually harms their chances of getting more money."

Sounds to me like government departments actually do have an efficiency incentive, sweaty.

[uuuhname]

you keep saying "shit I want" like it's a new TV when even you have to gloss over it's things like healthcare and eliminating homelessness. you can't really spin those to be selfish so you pretend I'm talking about something else.

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You are literally calling on other people to pay more and more, just to support the standard of living you want.

LIKE NOT BEING HOMELESS!?!?!?!?, holy hell can you get any more obtuse?

[Elegiac]

Democrats could destroy the GOP once and for all, if they actually became the party of fiscal responsibility.

There's no grassroots demand for the sort of "fiscal responsibility" you describe, sweaty. It's almost entirely just bigots wanting to lock minorities out of things like Medicare and Social Security using fiscal responsibility as a fig leaf, and "Democrats could destroy the GOP once and for all by becoming the GOP" remains a fuckin' retarded argument that should have died in 2020.

[Machismo]

That's nice, but it doesn't mean profit isn't inefficient.



They do: a surplus of earnings is generally required to be reinvested.

Profit is the equivalent of a government department not using its entire budget and keeping the rest just for lulz.



Mainly because your version of efficiency resembles nonfunctionality, lol.



But not necessarily cheaper to buy, usually because of the profit motive. Womp womp.



"If government departments try to secure more money than what they need to break even with the goods/services they require (i.e. a profit), that actually harms their chances of getting more money."

Sounds to me like government departments actually do have an efficiency incentive, sweaty.

This is your argument, I simply tore it to shreds.

Government largely exists to perpetuate itself. A major part of their existence and priorities, is to explain and justify their very existence.

Remember, you don't give a shit about debt, so you don't get to make that argument. Because, you literally said you don't care.

If a government department doesn't spend all its money, then it risks not getting that money the next fiscal year. I've literally watched it happen. That is promoting inefficiency.

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you keep saying "shit I want" like it's a new TV when even you have to gloss over it's things like healthcare and eliminating homelessness. you can't really spin those to be selfish so you pretend I'm talking about something else.

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LIKE NOT BEING HOMELESS!?!?!?!?, holy hell can you get any more obtuse?

Are you homeless?

Nope.

Meanwhile, you couldn't be bothered to pay a fucking penny more, yet demand others pay for it all.

That is what selfishness looks like.

[Zan15]

Those rates are already too fucking high.

It's 12.4% of a person's income.

Here's a thought, cut benefits, or increase the retirement age.

.

Its not 12.4% for everyone....since there are income caps.
Oh look the rate goes down for the people most able to afford to pay it.

Its also not 12.4% its 15.3%....but not for everyone.....the people who can most afford to pay it, pay waaaaaay less.


Its also not 12.4% of a person's income. Its 6.2% + 1.45% of a person's income.....but not for....well you know....
Its an additional 6.2% + 1.45% tax paid for by businesses not deducted from a persons income but a calculated based on income amount.

(YES, rates have been cut for 2020-2021 but i have included the standard rate for comparison/discussion since they will go back to normal soon*.)


Salary 1,000,000
Social Security: $17,707
Medicare: 29,000

Total: $46,707 >> umm that's not even close to 15.3%
Employee's Half: $23,354 -> Not even close to 7.65%

Here's a thought, cut benefits, or increase the retirement age.

.

Cutting benefits would require it to be 74% of the benefit it is today.
I am sure everyone would love to work till 75!!!

Tax the missing $ from over the income cap. There should be no fucking cap.
Tax all "income" regardless of source, no skirting the employment tax by giving 20 million in stock for example.

Tax the hell out of estates from dollar one.
They underpaid taxes for the last 30 years and caused 25 trillion in debt and 100s of trillions in underfunded liabilities its time to pay up

Allow for limited alternative investments of SS excess capital.


Go back to limited, fractional % increases to keep up with cost curve in benefits (especially Medicare)
or
Expand the fuck out of Medicare to be Medicare for All, thus spreading the cost over a much healthier percentage of the population reducing the overall cost (because of many reasons I won't list here cause its looooooooong)

[Elegiac]

Government largely exists to perpetuate itself. A major part of their existence and priorities, is to explain and justify their very existence.

No? The administrative and social needs of humans that live in groups beyond about a few hundred people is what explains and justifies government.

Remember, you don't give a shit about debt, so you don't get to make that argument. Because, you literally said you don't care.

Gatekeeping who can make an argument isn't saying the argument is incorrect, though.

If a government department doesn't spend all its money, then it risks not getting that money the next fiscal year. I've literally watched it happen. That is promoting inefficiency.

I'm confused - now you're complaining that government departments have annual budget adjustments so they don't sit on a surplus of money that doesn't get used? Lol.

You've got a weird definition of efficiency, as said.

[Machismo]

There's no grassroots demand for the sort of "fiscal responsibility" you describe, sweaty. It's almost entirely just bigots wanting to lock minorities out of things like Medicare and Social Security using fiscal responsibility as a fig leaf, and "Democrats could destroy the GOP once and for all by becoming the GOP" remains a fuckin' retarded argument that should have died in 2020.

Seriously, do you know you're misspelling the word?

At this point, if it's on purpose, then it's just trolling. If it's not on purpose, then you should work on that.

This is what is going to happen. You progressives are going to push this nonsense of more and more tax increases, and you are going to get the shit beat out of you in the next election... just like 2010. You're going to wonder why moderate and suburbanites didn't jump on board, and be outraged at them. Meanwhile, suburbanites will latch onto someone like DeSantis, and you will lose two more SCOTUS seats.

The more you push shit like this, the faster things like Roe v. Wade vanish.

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No? The administrative and social needs of humans that live in groups beyond about a few hundred people is what explains and justifies government.



Gatekeeping who can make an argument isn't saying the argument is incorrect, though.



I'm confused - now you're complaining that government departments have annual budget adjustments so they don't sit on a surplus of money that doesn't get used? Lol.

You've got a weird definition of efficiency, as said.

Nah, feel free to use the dictionary definition.

You literally said you don't give a shit about the debt, so to try and use debt and spending as your argument, means you don't even believe your own argument.

You are literally arguing against yourself.

[Elegiac]

Seriously, do you know you're misspelling the word?

Urban dictionary is freeeeee.

This is what is going to happen. You progressives are going to push this nonsense of more and more tax increases, and you are going to get the shit beat out of you in the next election... just like 2010.

Proving you really don't understand what happened in either 2008 or 2010.

If the Democrats get cleaned up next year it won't be because they spent too much money or taxed the rich too heavily.

You're going to wonder why moderate and suburbanites didn't jump on board, and be outraged at them. Meanwhile, suburbanites will latch onto someone like DeSantis, and you will lose two more SCOTUS seats.

You do realise this is just a massive appeal to popularity fallacy, right? Lol.

The more you push shit like this, the faster things like Roe v. Wade vanish.

Republicans learned a long time ago it is far more effective to ban abortion by defunding public health in the name of "fiscal responsibility" to the point it's inaccessible to all but the wealthiest rather than attacking Roe v. Wade. You're the bigger threat to women's rights than a Republican SCOTUS, tbh.

[Machismo]

Its not 12.4% for everyone....since there are income caps.
Oh look the rate goes down for the people most able to afford to pay it.

Its also not 12.4% its 15.3%....but not for everyone.....the people who can most afford to pay it, pay waaaaaay less.


Its also not 12.4% of a person's income. Its 6.2% + 1.45% of a person's income.....but not for....well you know....
Its an additional 6.2% + 1.45% tax paid for by businesses not deducted from a persons income but a calculated based on income amount.

(YES, rates have been cut for 2020-2021 but i have included the standard rate for comparison/discussion since they will go back to normal soon*.)


Salary 1,000,000
Social Security: $17,707
Medicare: 29,000

Total: $46,707 >> umm that's not even close to 15.3%
Employee's Half: $23,354 -> Not even close to 7.65%




Cutting benefits would require it to be 74% of the benefit it is today.
I am sure everyone would love to work till 75!!!

Tax the missing $ from over the income cap. There should be no fucking cap.
Tax all "income" regardless of source, no skirting the employment tax by giving 20 million in stock for example.

Tax the hell out of estates from dollar one.
They underpaid taxes for the last 30 years and caused 25 trillion in debt and 100s of trillions in underfunded liabilities its time to pay up

Allow for limited alternative investments of SS excess capital.


Go back to limited, fractional % increases to keep up with cost curve in benefits (especially Medicare)
or
Expand the fuck out of Medicare to be Medicare for All, thus spreading the cost over a much healthier percentage of the population reducing the overall cost (because of many reasons I won't list here cause its looooooooong)

The earnings cap is a good thing, because there's also a cap on benefits.

As for cutting benefits, we should have done it years ago. Once it becomes insolvent, then we'll get those benefits cut, regardless... and immediately. That's less than 15 years away.

Once again, the solution for all Democrats... seems to be... raise taxes.

Fuck that, we've done it more than 20 times so far, and it hasn't fixed the issue. It's time to try something else.

[uuuhname]

Are you homeless?

Nope.

Meanwhile, you couldn't be bothered to pay a fucking penny more, yet demand others pay for it all.

That is what selfishness looks like.

and you have no problem with Jeffery Epstein owning a 3rd island cuz that's the super duper not selfish route to go here.

[Elegiac]

You are literally arguing against yourself.

I'm not the one saying a government department being required to reinvest any surplus revenue rather than just sitting on it is inefficient, rofl.

[Machismo]

Urban dictionary is freeeeee.



Proving you really don't understand what happened in either 2008 or 2010.

If the Democrats get cleaned up next year it won't be because they spent too much money or taxed the rich too heavily.



You do realise this is just a massive appeal to popularity fallacy, right? Lol.



Republicans learned a long time ago it is far more effective to ban abortion by defunding public health in the name of "fiscal responsibility" to the point it's inaccessible to all but the wealthiest rather than attacking Roe v. Wade. You're the bigger threat to women's rights than a Republican SCOTUS, tbh.

The Democrats got their asses handed to them in 2010, because they pushed the ACA, and it was a fucking abortion.

At this rate, the Dems are going to lose 2022, and maybe even 2024. If Trump is back in office, I will absolutely blame the Dems for pissing away a golden opportunity.

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and you have no problem with Jeffery Epstein owning a 3rd island cuz that's the super duper not selfish route to go here.

Jeffrey Epstein is dead, and a shitty pedophile.

Your desire to push that all wealthy people are somehow pedophiles... is moronic.

[Stormspellz]

It's a fantasy to think stopping spending increases for 5 years is a worthwhile endeavor?

Or, should we ust keep saddling future generations with more and more debt?

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yes because that not how it works in any sense furthermore history has proven over the last 40 years, its the democrats who lower the deficit only for republicans to explode and the debt, followed by dems having to clean up gop's mess.

[Elegiac]

The Democrats got their asses handed to them in 2010, because they pushed the ACA, and it was a fucking abortion.

Ah yeah, you're one of those people who thinks the Tea Party was about fiscal responsibility and not people complaining that the President has too much melanin.

That's cute.

[uuuhname]

Jeffrey Epstein is dead, and a shitty pedophile.

Your desire to push that all wealthy people are somehow pedophiles... is moronic.

yet you cannot for one second pull yourself away from being the person who thinks they should have the money to do the things he did. that's the point.