1. #6941
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The Senate and the House are also not reflective of popular will, so.

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    Maybe y'all should rein in your imperialist ambitions if you can't manifest them with your existing funds, then.

    How good is colonialism neoliberalism war!
    The GOP had more total votes for it in the House than the Dems did in both years though.

    I do not think our allies see it as imperialism.

  2. #6942
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Once again: it wasn't until folks like you started pushing to gut it.
    When did I push to gut it?

    It is literally people new into the system paying in to take care of those who are already retired. It was a Ponzi Scheme from the start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    then by your logic its gop's fault that last few years deficit went up (even though it was still about half of what he started with)
    Sure, the GOP sucks at balancing a budget. Trump is the least fiscally-responsible President in history, followed by Reagan, then Obama and Bush.

  3. #6943
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Once again... that's just another tax increase. Of course, that's simply increasing a tax on other people, and not on you. That's even worse.

    And therein lies the problem, there's no incentive to actually fix the broken system, because people will just wait for the next guy to do it. meanwhile, future generations are going to be fucked over as a result. Social Security is the ultimate Ponzi Scheme.

    At the end of the day, the retirement age should be increased, and we should reduce benefits. I have no desire to fuck over the wealthy, to pay for a fundamentally broken system.
    you know why the system is "broken"? because the rich and big corps don't pay their fair share and have a near unlimited way to exploit the system, amazing how that works

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    When did I push to gut it?

    It is literally people new into the system paying in to take care of those who are already retired. It was a Ponzi Scheme from the start.

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    Sure, the GOP sucks at balancing a budget. Trump is the least fiscally-responsible President in history, followed by Reagan, then Obama and Bush.
    what an intellectually dishonest hand waive of the problem

  4. #6944
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The GOP had more total votes for it in the House than the Dems did in both years though.
    Okay? This doesn't give them a popular mandate, it makes it a minority government.

    I do not think our allies see it as imperialism.
    "Our colonies don't see us as imperialist" is a funny argument, lol.

    Go figure that the regimes which are curated to be favorable to the US and its policy goals might be hesitant to be critical of the US and its policy goals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #6945
    Banned cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Social Security is the ultimate Ponzi Scheme.
    Patent lie on your part. Please don't spread mistruths or lie on subjects you are clearly uninformed about. You just make our job that much harder.

    Social security was a fully funded retirement vehicle that has been decimated by Congress when they "borrowed" from it and then started to call it an entitlement.

  6. #6946
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    Once again... that's just another tax increase. Of course, that's simply increasing a tax on other people, and not on you. That's even worse.

    .
    Who said i would not see a tax increase?

    I said general employment taxes need to go up as needed, which would cause me to pay more when the tax went up.
    I listed multiple other things that could be done without a tax increase.
    One would actually result in a major savings if you opened Medicare up for everyone. The very OPPOSITE of what you are claiming all democrats want to do. Its actually the republicans who are against this huge tax decrease.

    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post

    And therein lies the problem, there's no incentive to actually fix the broken system, because people will just wait for the next guy to do it. meanwhile, future generations are going to be fucked over as a result. Social Security is the ultimate Ponzi Scheme.

    .
    No Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and i refuse to go down that rabbit hole with you to explain why. Its been done before on this forum, so you can go read it there.


    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post

    At the end of the day, the retirement age should be increased, and we should reduce benefits. I have no desire to fuck over the wealthy, to pay for a fundamentally broken system.
    Yah the horror that the "wealthy" should be legally allowed to avoid paying taxes.
    You have it half assed backwards on who is being fucked over.

    So tell me what are you going to do with the population of people on SS whom are making less then poverty rates when their benefits are cut?
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  7. #6947
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    When did I push to gut it?
    Complaining about the taxes required to fund it, for starters.

    It is literally people new into the system paying in to take care of those who are already retired.
    Just like health insurance is literally healthy people paying into a system to take care of the sick.

    Congratulations, you seem to have discovered the basic principle behind cost-sharing. *slow clap* You just don't know what a Ponzi scheme is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #6948
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormspellz View Post
    you know why the system is "broken"? because the rich and big corps don't pay their fair share and have a near unlimited way to exploit the system, amazing how that works
    There it is... the ever-elusive 'fair share."

    The wealthy pay a higher percentage of their incomes than the other income levels.

    What exactly is "their fair share?"

  9. #6949
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Patent lie on your part. Please don't spread mistruths or lie on subjects you are clearly uninformed about. You just make our job that much harder.

    Social security was a fully funded retirement vehicle that has been decimated by Congress when they "borrowed" from it and then started to call it an entitlement.
    OMG OMG PLEASE STOP

    no one ever borrowed from SS and not one dime has ever been effected by congress.

    This has been debunked over and over again. SS gets over 80 billion dollars a year in interest by investing in treasuries.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  10. #6950
    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    Patent lie on your part. Please don't spread mistruths or lie on subjects you are clearly uninformed about. You just make our job that much harder.

    Social security was a fully funded retirement vehicle that has been decimated by Congress when they "borrowed" from it and then started to call it an entitlement.
    It's not fully funded.

    It hasn't been fully funded for... my entire fucking life, and long before that.

    It's a fucking Ponzi Scheme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Who said i would not see a tax increase?

    I said general employment taxes need to go up as needed, which would cause me to pay more when the tax went up.
    I listed multiple other things that could be done without a tax increase.
    One would actually result in a major savings if you opened Medicare up for everyone. The very OPPOSITE of what you are claiming all democrats want to do. Its actually the republicans who are against this huge tax decrease.



    No Social Security is not a Ponzi Scheme and i refuse to go down that rabbit hole with you to explain why. Its been done before on this forum, so you can go read it there.




    Yah the horror that the "wealthy" should be legally allowed to avoid paying taxes.
    You have it half assed backwards on who is being fucked over.

    So tell me what are you going to do with the population of people on SS whom are making less then poverty rates when their benefits are cut?
    That's the problem, there's no end in sight for those tax increases. We've been down that road... more than 20 times before. I have zero reason to believe it would ever be enough, so the taxes would just keep going up.

    This is ensured by increasing life expectancy, without increasing the retirement age.

    Yes, it is a fucking Ponzi Scheme.

  11. #6951
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    well except for 2011-2013 where they got 0% but the military still got raises. There was a year or two in the 1980s as well.
    Most civilian government jobs are not federal.

  12. #6952
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Complaining about the taxes required to fund it, for starters.



    Just like health insurance is literally healthy people paying into a system to take care of the sick.

    Congratulations, you seem to have discovered the basic principle behind cost-sharing. *slow clap* You just don't know what a Ponzi scheme is.
    So... you got nothing.

    Sweet.

    You just described a Ponzi Scheme.

  13. #6953
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    There it is... the ever-elusive 'fair share."

    The wealthy pay a higher percentage of their incomes than the other income levels.

    What exactly is "their fair share?"
    A share proportionate to their level of wealth and income.

    "Higher" does not mean "proportionate".
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #6954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    OMG OMG PLEASE STOP

    no one ever borrowed from SS and not one dime has ever been effected by congress.

    This has been debunked over and over again. SS gets over 80 billion dollars a year in interest by investing in treasuries.
    so, not at all a Ponzi scheme then.

  15. #6955
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    A share proportionate to their level of wealth and income.

    "Higher" does not mean "proportionate".
    It's literally a higher percentage of their income...

    So, it's more, both in total, and in percentage.

    That's how it works.

    Oh shit, now you people want a wealth tax on top of income taxes? Talk about punishing people for saving money...

  16. #6956
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    You just described a Ponzi Scheme.
    Nah, you just don't know what a Ponzi Scheme is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  17. #6957
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zan15 View Post
    Nah, this is such falsehoods perpetrated by the military and its contractors.

    We do not need to spend 10x more then the next 20 countries combined to do what is needed.
    When you are tasked with being able to win a major war and a minor one at the same time with minimal US casualties, it isn't cheap.

    You need to recheck your math.

  18. #6958
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    It's not fully funded.

    It hasn't been fully funded for... my entire fucking life, and long before that.

    It's a fucking Ponzi Scheme.

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    That's the problem, there's no end in sight for those tax increases. We've been down that road... more than 20 times before. I have zero reason to believe it would ever be enough, so the taxes would just keep going up.

    This is ensured by increasing life expectancy, without increasing the retirement age.

    Yes, it is a fucking Ponzi Scheme.

    Up until just a short few years ago SS was still taking in more money then it was paying out. "fully funded" is a misnomer that is often misquoted a lot and taken out of context. Technically SS has always been underfunded since its expected to cover everyone, even kids who haven't even started contributing into the system yet.

    SS was by all means fully funded till it started taking in less money then it was paying out. Decades and Decades it was technically "fully funded". Wasn't till about 10 years after the tax increases were stopped did it start to go down the road of insolvency.

    Again the solution is a combination of tax increases, retirement age adjustments, income cap removal, benefit adjustments, opening up to Medicare for all, cost savings for M4A, all income regardless of sources being taxed, etc etc.


    And no its not a fucking Ponzi Scheme no matter how you say it.
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

  19. #6959
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Nah, you just don't know what a Ponzi Scheme is.
    Literally the new people are paying in to pay out the people who were in there longer.

    It's a Ponzi Scheme, and we just try and justify it, because we think it's better to sell it as a means to take care of granny.

  20. #6960
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    When you are tasked with being able to win a major war and a minor one at the same time with minimal US casualties, it isn't cheap.
    You forgot the part where anyone asked you to start said wars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

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