1. #6981
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fincayra View Post
    There's a ton in this bill that we have needed as a country for decades. I'm really wondering why so many of our former presidents have been so lackluster on infrastructure? I'm not really much of a Biden supporter, but with moves like this I will swiftly be won over.
    It’s a very a very long answer, since the excuses change. To me, the biggest missed opportunity was when Bush was elected over Gore. The end of Clinton’s term was the last time we had a balanced budget, which happened to coincide with an “extremist” environmentalist (for the time). Instead, Bush blew a surplus by sending out 300$ stimulus and a tax cut, before either the IT bust or 9/11. Before those, Bush’s main focus was expanding oil drilling into ANWR...

    Since then, it’s been a constant catch up, fixing shit that Republicans break. Obama started with the Great Recession with unemployment around 9% and now Biden is starting with a Global Pandemic and unemployment over 6%. I think GOP is so focused on personal freedom, they forgot that their job has constituents.

    GOP has successfully positioned them selfs amongst their supporters, as fighters of fake news. While when that fights lands in court, they claim no one in their right mind would believe them. They don’t have to do anything, but whine and pocket the money.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Because "I'll fix our broken dams" polls badly.
    It’s more of opportunity. When was the last time we had a democrat gain presidency, without an ongoing crisis that GOP failed to mitigate? Both Bush and Trump ended their terms with higher unemployment than they started, because each one ended with a major crisis. By the time democrats would balanced the budget, GOP would get elected and cut taxes. Then blaming democrat spending for the deficit, to claim nothing can be done. It’s an endless cycle...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
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  2. #6982
    https://www.npr.org/2021/04/05/98446...ound-the-world

    What the fuck? Wall Street lapdog and pro-austerity Janet Yellen is proposing a global minimum corporate tax to get rid of tax havens and help nations around the world repatriate money? And it would also lead to higher taxes on that sheltered money and more revenue for things like paying down debts and paying for social programs?

    I feel like I've been lied to, I thought Yellen was gonna gut spending, tax the poor, and generally be a lapdog for Wall Street while singing the praises of austerity.

    What gives?

  3. #6983
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    https://www.npr.org/2021/04/05/98446...ound-the-world

    What the fuck? Wall Street lapdog and pro-austerity Janet Yellen is proposing a global minimum corporate tax to get rid of tax havens and help nations around the world repatriate money? And it would also lead to higher taxes on that sheltered money and more revenue for things like paying down debts and paying for social programs?

    I feel like I've been lied to, I thought Yellen was gonna gut spending, tax the poor, and generally be a lapdog for Wall Street while singing the praises of austerity.

    What gives?
    There would also need to be a global maximum to reduce the incentive to shop around. The average corporate tax rate is around 25% so they could set the minimum at 20% and the maximum at 30%.

    It would only work if it's involuntary though, which it's unethical to force a country to adopt a policy they don't want. It's a pipedream.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  4. #6984
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    There would also need to be a global maximum to reduce the incentive to shop around.
    There really doesn't.

  5. #6985
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    There really doesn't.
    You can say the same thing about the global minimum. If we want standardization then we have to get rid of nations that are tax havens and tax Nazis.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  6. #6986
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    You can say the same thing about the global minimum. If we want standardization then we have to get rid of nations that are tax havens and tax Nazis.
    Who's a "Tax Nazi"? Like, is this a country with extra taxes on Jews and gypsies or something? Seeking to bring about the uber-tax-collector for the glory of the carried-interest race?

  7. #6987
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Who's a "Tax Nazi"? Like, is this a country with extra taxes on Jews and gypsies or something? Seeking to bring about the uber-tax-collector for the glory of the carried-interest race?
    Brazil is an example of a tax Nazi with a corporate tax rate that's at an abusive 34%. If Brazil and everyone else set their rates at the average rate of 23-25% then corporations wouldn't need to go tax shopping.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-04-05 at 10:20 PM.
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  8. #6988
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Brazil is an example of a tax Nazi with a corporate tax rate that's at an abusive 34%. If Brazil and everyone else set their rates at the average rate of 23-25% then corporations wouldn't need to go tax shopping.
    wait you think corporations wouldn't try to maximize profits at the cost of society? you know the thing they are made to do.

  9. #6989
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Brazil is an example of a tax Nazi with a corporate tax rate that's at an abusive 34%. If Brazil and everyone else set their rates at the average rate of 23-25% then corporations wouldn't need to go tax shopping.
    So you're calling a country Nazi, because they have a 34% corporate tax rate? You seriously need to reign in the rhetoric, any good point you may be trying to make is going to get lost in this kind of nonsense posting.
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    It is a well-known fact that those people who must want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it... anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job.

  10. #6990
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Brazil is an example of a tax Nazi with a corporate tax rate that's at an abusive 34%.
    Why is this "abusive"?

    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    If Brazil and everyone else set their rates at the average rate of 23-25% then corporations wouldn't need to go tax shopping.
    Or..."tax shopping" shouldn't be a thing, that too!

  11. #6991
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Why is this "abusive"?



    Or..."tax shopping" shouldn't be a thing, that too!
    Because he thinks that if corporations are forced to pay taxes, it is "theft". Meanwhile, when our economy was it's best, it was when the top tax bracket was 91%, not 21%. Post WW2 til Reagan, we had control on deficits and debt, because corporations actually paid taxes. Sure, no one ever paid that 91% tax on anything, and the loopholes got it down to about 32-35%, but at least it is better than fucking ZERO like it is now for millionaires and billionaires and their shitty tax dodging companies.

  12. #6992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Why is this "abusive"?



    Or..."tax shopping" shouldn't be a thing, that too!
    It is rather easy to deal with "tax shopping" want to move? Okay pay a penalty... pay back any subsidies that aided your company.. pay back the tax dollars spent to tend those roads, and pay the societal cost that laying off people incurs, then you may go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  13. #6993
    Anyone want some 'bleep Manchin' news? Well hast to be with him possibly again holding up Infrastructure.

    West Virginia Democrat Joe Manchin said he does not support Biden's infrastructure bill as written. He does not support a 28% corporate tax rate and says that 25% is more appropriate, reports @elwasson.

    Manchin was appearing on the WVMetroNews' program, "Talkline."
    https://twitter.com/nancook/status/1...616400397?s=19

    Here's the problem.

    In 2012, Manchin supported Obama's plan to drop the corporate tax rate from 35% to 28%.

    In 2021, Manchin now says Biden's plan to raise it to 28% is too high.

    https://t.co/8x4C1EuZbG
    https://twitter.com/gelles/status/13...807878144?s=19

    So now 28% is too much. Sure he can change his mind, but this dude really pushing his power grab.

    Also really affirms his pro-corporate leaning. I would guess this would help more West Virginians than corporations in WV.
    “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States…. [It is] nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

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  14. #6994
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Because he thinks that if corporations are forced to pay taxes, it is "theft". Meanwhile, when our economy was it's best, it was when the top tax bracket was 91%, not 21%. Post WW2 til Reagan, we had control on deficits and debt, because corporations actually paid taxes. Sure, no one ever paid that 91% tax on anything, and the loopholes got it down to about 32-35%, but at least it is better than fucking ZERO like it is now for millionaires and billionaires and their shitty tax dodging companies.
    Correlation does not imply causation. This is why it only makes sense to argue in terms of explanations/interpretations of economic data.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  15. #6995
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Correlation does not imply causation. This is why it only makes sense to argue in terms of explanations/interpretations of economic data.
    Jesus christ, don't even bother replying to me with this bullshit nonsense.

  16. #6996
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Jesus christ, don't even bother replying to me with this bullshit nonsense.
    Okay well if you only care about correlations and economic data then there's literally nothing to talk about. Anybody can search for and find specific data points that agree with their interpretations of economics and what causes success. It's pointless though because it doesn't tell you anything about how economies work and why they prosper.
    Last edited by PC2; 2021-04-06 at 01:54 AM.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

  17. #6997
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    So because the Party of Trump, and what few actual Republicans still exist, claim they want infrastructure but are against ways to pay for it -- wait, isn't that welfare? -- it seems the upcoming infrastructure bill is doomed because of the filibuster.

    Well, I guess that's the end of--

    The Senate parliamentarian ruled Monday that Democrats can use special budgetary rules to avoid a GOP filibuster on two more pieces of legislation, setting the stage for President Biden's infrastructure agenda to pass in two packages with simple-majority votes.

    Wait, what?

    Schumer could pass a budget resolution for fiscal 2022 to do a third reconciliation package for the second half of the Biden infrastructure agenda. Or the fiscal 2021 budget could be revised a third time to set up a third reconciliation package.

    Top Schumer aides had argued to parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough last month that Section 304 of the Congressional Budget Act of 1974 allows them to revise the budget resolution for fiscal 2021 to create additional reconciliation instructions, setting up pathways to pass two more bills this year with only a simple majority in the 50-50 Senate.

    "The Parliamentarian has advised that a revised budget resolution may contain budget reconciliation instructions. This confirms the Leader’s interpretation of the Budget Act and allows Democrats additional tools to improve the lives of Americans if Republican obstruction continues," a spokesperson for Schumer said in a statement Monday. "While no decisions have been made on a legislative path forward using Section 304 and some parameters still need to be worked out, the Parliamentarian’s opinion is an important step forward that this key pathway is available to Democrats if needed."

    Democrats used the budget reconciliation process earlier this year to pass Biden's $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief bill without any GOP votes, instead of the 60 votes needed to advance legislation in the upper chamber.

    The new ruling will enable Schumer and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) to break up Biden’s infrastructure proposal into two legislative packages.

    The first portion, a $2.25 trillion measure unveiled by the White House last month, includes more traditional infrastructure priorities. The second part, planned for later in the year, will include more people-focused spending priorities favored by progressives, such as expanded child care, free community college, universal prekindergarten and more affordable housing.

    Both the Senate and House will need to pass another concurrent resolution to trigger an additional set of reconciliation instructions.
    Huh.

  18. #6998
    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Okay well if you only care about correlations and economic data then there's literally nothing to talk about. Anybody can search for and find specific data points that agree with their interpretations of economics and what causes success. It's pointless though because it doesn't tell you anything about how economies work and why they prosper.
    No, I just don't bother with your bullshit semantics.

  19. #6999
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    So because the Party of Trump, and what few actual Republicans still exist, claim they want infrastructure but are against ways to pay for it -- wait, isn't that welfare? -- it seems the upcoming infrastructure bill is doomed because of the filibuster.

    Well, I guess that's the end of--

    The Senate parliamentarian ruled Monday that Democrats can use special budgetary rules to avoid a GOP filibuster on two more pieces of legislation, setting the stage for President Biden's infrastructure agenda to pass in two packages with simple-majority votes.

    Wait, what?



    Huh.
    Unless they get HR1 passed, all of that stuff will be pointless because the GOP will be working to make sure that no number of votes could remove them.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  20. #7000
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    No, I just don't bother with your bullshit semantics.
    Listen the average corporate tax rate is around 24%. The average income tax rate on the highest earners in developed countries is around 45% if you include payroll taxes and SS contributions. If 90% taxes were optimal then nations would just double their taxes to get their magical increase in economic prosperity. They don't because all that would do is hurt the economy and tax revenue over time. Not to mention it's unethical to take most of a person's earnings against their will.
    Optimism! (HumanProgress.org)

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