Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Zan15]

We've increased taxes.

Let's try something new for a chance. I vote for decreasing benefits and raising the retirement age.

Again then what do you do with the millions you drive into poverty?

What do you do with the increasing numbers of people that cannot physically work till the new retirement age?

[Elegiac]

We've increased taxes.

Let's try something new for a chance.

Austerity isn't a new idea and it fails every time it's implemented, dude.

[Machismo]

No they made it very clear in the reports of the late 80's and 90's that the current tax rate was not going to cover the baby boomer spike. go read them, they also knew taxes would not be increase in the foreseeable future which for the SSA was 10-25 year projections.


With how popular SS is, tax increases would not have faced much resistance at all. Only resistance is republican's which does not mirror the populations stance at all

Tax rates cannot go up forever.

At some point, people are going to not let it happen. If it were as popular as you believed, then it taxes would have continued being increased. But, as we can see, those days may be over. What do you think the odds are that the House and Senate would be able to pass a SS tax increase in the next year? Basically zero, right?

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In what world is not taking their opinions at face value mean they are "worth less as humans"? Fucking lol.



Is this the part where you concoct some stupid little gotcha about how wanting higher taxes is equivalent to theft?

Should we take the opinions of criminals at face value?

After all, if you are creating the stereotype for the wealthy based on your study, then we can do the same for the poor... right?

[Fugus]

What exactly do you want Biden to make them pay?

How much will finally make you happy?

Taxing all income as income regardless of source after $250,000 a year and getting rid of the corporate loopholes while increasing the top corporate tax rate to about 38% would be good.

During the golden age of capitalism it was at about 90%.

Combine that with a living minimum wage which would get the majority of those on welfare off saving us money and us actually forcing a 3rd party audit of the US military and their budgets and universal healthcare which would save us something like 3 trillion over 10 years with better healthcare outcomes.

How is that for a start? And don’t base your response on ideology but on data and how things have actually proven to work.

[Machismo]

Again then what do you do with the millions you drive into poverty?

What do you do with the increasing numbers of people that cannot physically work till the new retirement age?

This is something every American needs to plan for, and should be aware of. The warning signs have been around for decades, and everyone knew this was coming. None of this is really any sort of surprise.

People needed to plan, and they still need to plan. They need to stop treating SS as their sole source of retirement, because it shouldn't be.

[Elegiac]

After all, if you are creating the stereotype for the wealthy based on your study, then we can do the same for the poor... right?

You're getting very defensive over the suggestion that having more money distorts one's worldview, sweaty. I can't think of an alternative explanation for your insinuation that all poor people are criminals.

[Rozz]

This conversation can continue in PMs or in here, but the debate over taxation is starting to derail.

[Machismo]

Taxing all income as income regardless of source after $250,000 a year and getting rid of the corporate loopholes while increasing the top corporate tax rate to about 38% would be good.

During the golden age of capitalism it was at about 90%.

Combine that with a living minimum wage which would get the majority of those on welfare off saving us money and us actually forcing a 3rd party audit of the US military and their budgets and universal healthcare which would save us something like 3 trillion over 10 years with better healthcare outcomes.

How is that for a start? And don’t base your response on ideology but on data and how things have actually proven to work.

Once again... what "loopholes?"

Having kids is a loophole, so is buying a house.

And there's the problem, this is nothing more than massive wealth redistribution, so no wonder people tell progressives to go take a hike. If you make the corporate tax rate 38%, you are crushing businesses.

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You're getting very defensive over the suggestion that having more money distorts one's worldview, sweaty. I can't think of an alternative explanation for your insinuation that all poor people are criminals.

Not at all, I'm using your argument against you.

This is your argument that they are criminals.

[Fugus]

This conversation can continue in PMs or in here, but the debate over taxation is starting to derail.

Thank you, I tried to create the other thread which handled this for 19 pages but was banned. And if I actually did it again, I figured it would still end up right back here again after you locked it again.

Why I tagged you.

[Elegiac]

This is your argument that they are criminals.

It wasn't, please stop strawmanning and piss off to the thread that was created for you for this subject. Thanks.

[Breccia]

where is the investigation into his role in the Georgia fiasco?

Ongoing.

Fulton County DA closer to seeking grand jury subpoenas in Trump election investigation

The Fulton County District Attorney is closer to seeking subpoenas in what is expected to be a far-ranging investigation of an attempt by former President Donald Trump and others to overthrow the presidential 2020 election. This is according to sources familiar with the investigation.

District Attorney Fani Willis has already asked top Georgia elected officials to preserve any evidence they may have.

Willis sent letters, obtained by the I-Team, to the governor, lieutenant governor, attorney general, and Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger asking them all to preserve any key evidence for possible prosecution. Possible crimes ranged from "the solicitation of election fraud" to "conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath of office."

"Yes, we will issue grand jury subpoenas," Willis said.

Cunningham expects subpoenas to be issued to Raffensperger for among other things, the two phone calls Trump made to the secretary of state’s office. One call was placed to an investigator and one call was placed to Raffensperger and his staff.

"I just want to find 11,780 votes which is one more than we have," Trump said during the January phone call to Raffensperger.

In that recorded call, Trump directly urged Raffensperger to throw out what Trump considered to be fraudulent votes which would give Trump the electoral victory.

Cunningham points to a Georgia law that says it is criminal to command someone else to commit election fraud.

"It looks to me like it’s very, very strong evidence that he committed a crime," said the law professor.

Now, that's from three weeks ago. I have seen nothing specific about Graham for a while, but, we do know Graham has been a target for a while. From November:

In an interview with the Washington Post on Monday, Raffensperger sad that Graham had inquired as to whether the election official could toss ballots in counties that had higher-than average rates of ballot signatures that didn’t match the voter signature on file. He told the paper it seemed that Graham was suggesting throwing out legal ballots.

Raffensperger doubled down on the accusation in an interview on "CBS This Morning."

"Senator Graham implied for us to audit the envelopes and then throw out the ballots for counties who had the highest frequency error of signatures," he said.

Graham has denied any wrongdoing. "I am as sure of my innocence as I am sure that I'm a heterosexual male," he hasn't been quoted as saying but I'll infer that's what he meant. This was a stupid thing to deny. One, we know GA SecSat Roethlisberger taped everything. Two, even if he didn't, Graham's not from Georgia. Three, even if he was, Senators have no power in local law enforcement. He could be in trouble for calling to wish happy birthday.

[Machismo]

It wasn't, please stop strawmanning and piss off to the thread that was created for you for this subject. Thanks.

If your argument is that they are unreliable, and shouldn't be believed when they claim harm, the same metric can be applied to poor people who commit more crimes.

Personally, I don't feel like using such a metric, but if you want to push those stereotypes as an argument, then I am going to make you own them.

So, do you care to continue that line of reasoning?

[Zan15]

Tax rates cannot go up forever.

At some point, people are going to not let it happen. If it were as popular as you believed, then it taxes would have continued being increased. But, as we can see, those days may be over. What do you think the odds are that the House and Senate would be able to pass a SS tax increase in the next year? Basically zero, right?

Again pols do not follow what is popular or desired by the population....hell or what is even required in order to save a program and people's lives

Most of the tax spike would be to pay for the underfunded situation we are in because baby boomers and their parents did not pay enough into the system for the benefits they are receiving.
You could make a tax increase that sunsets once the baby boomer spike is over. Most of that increase will not be needed after their #'s die off.
do it that way, and seniors will be all on board once you tell them its that or they have to work to 75 and or get 70% of their benefits and huge cuts to Medicare/premium increases.

[cubby]

The government did borrow it, and they got treasury notes in return.

That's bought debt...

Now, that $2.5t money isn't CLOSE to enough to fund all those who have already paid into the system... not by a fucking long shot. Even the SSA admits to their unfunded liabilities.

Shit. Shit. Shit. Shit.

My bad - you're right. And the second part I was already with you on.

[Zan15]

This is something every American needs to plan for, and should be aware of. The warning signs have been around for decades, and everyone knew this was coming. None of this is really any sort of surprise.

People needed to plan, and they still need to plan. They need to stop treating SS as their sole source of retirement, because it shouldn't be.

old pull themselves up by their boot straps...even though wages have not increased to allow them to save more money......

They have also been told for decades that the problem was going to be fixed. how many pols ran on this platform including trump and biden.

[cubby]

OMG really dude i expected more from you.


So the 2 trillion dollar surplus invested in treasuries is fake?

The Billions a month the SS sells of those treasuries to pay benefits out are fake? The billions it buys with excess capital is fake?
Gee the checks are still clearing so the money exist, so how is there no money in there?


The SS trust fund invest in treasuries.
The Federal Govt does not borrow money from SS. They have no ability.
The SS trust fund could tomorrow stop investing in treasuries and just let the money sit there. But why would they, they earn 80+ billion a year in safe interest for the program.

Yeah, you should have. My bad - apologies.

Did Congress pull money out and then repay it with Treasuries. Why am I struggling with this...?

[Zan15]

This conversation can continue in PMs or in here, but the debate over taxation is starting to derail.

oops i was typing out before i saw this....

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Yeah, you should have. My bad - apologies.

Did Congress pull money out and then repay it with Treasuries. Why am I struggling with this...?

No, the SS administration invested the money.

Congress has nothing to do with any part of the process, well except for making it law that all excess capital has to be invested in treasuries/nothing instead of giving them the option to invest in things like stocks.

Sure the govt can use the proceeds of those treasury sales to fund the govt but the assets still remain in the SSA system.

The SSA also gets enhanced interest rates on those special treasuries.
They can also be sold daily unlike other treasuries the govt is involved in selling. SSA never has to wait for money if it needs it.

its crazy we used to get 10%+ back in the crazy days of Reagan !!


https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/intRates.html
https://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/newIssueRates.html

Average Interest rate return last 20 years for SSA trust fund 2000-2020
6.240 5.229 4.865 4.073 4.271 4.313 4.823 4.656 3.635 2.917
2.760 2.417 1.458 1.875 2.271 2.021 1.813 2.313 2.865 2.219 0.990


SSA never predicted interest rates so low in their reports of the 1990-2000s. Another reason why the shortfall happened.

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This conversation can continue in PMs or in here, but the debate over taxation is starting to derail.

what about social security should we kybosh that too? Not sure?

Mod Edit: Tbh as long as it stays on topic it's fine. It only matters if it's going to be a back-and-forth personal debate that starts to derail and overtake discussion. Of course, you can debate policies pushed by the current administration and their effectiveness, but if you just want to focus on specifics it's best to make a new thread or go where it's already being discussed.

[Kellhound]

Nah, you just have a very romanticized view of how colonial relations were conducted by empires prior to the US.

You just have a negative view of the US and will not be happy until it is destroyed.

[jonnysensible]

You just have a negative view of the US and will not be happy until it is destroyed.

hello paranoid right wing views.

[Elegiac]

You just have a negative view of the US and will not be happy until it is destroyed.

Making it less of a plutocratic empire with the trappings of a police state isn't "destroying it", sweaty.

This stinks of Red Scare garbage.