1. #7161
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    During slavery? You want to use something a bunch of white rich men many of them slavers agreed to in order to disenfranchise an area nearly half black alone?
    I am calling for it to be undone. No more no less.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
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  2. #7162
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I am calling for it to be undone. No more no less.
    The people of DC determining if they want to be a state is what is important, not some antiquated decree.

    And if that also casually sinks the GOP’s chances at ever controlling the senate again, then hey, that’s just a happy coincidence.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  3. #7163
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    The people of DC determining if they want to be a state is what is important, not some antiquated decree.

    And if that also casually sinks the GOP’s chances at ever controlling the senate again, then hey, that’s just a happy coincidence.
    If that is all that matters, then most of Oregon should be allowed to form its own state as well.

    And that there is the ONLY reason you want it to be its own state.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  4. #7164
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If that is all that matters, then most of Oregon should be allowed to form its own state as well.
    This is one of those "I think land can vote" things, isn't it?

  5. #7165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If that is all that matters, then most of Oregon should be allowed to form its own state as well.

    And that there is the ONLY reason you want it to be its own state.
    Good news! They’re already a state with full voting rights and representation!

  6. #7166
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If that is all that matters, then most of Oregon should be allowed to form its own state as well.

    And that there is the ONLY reason you want it to be its own state.
    Chances of east oregon splitting off from west oregon are basically nill even if left up to the people. Sure, some east Oregon dwellers want it, but it's not a wildly popular idea either.

    I'd say let's just get rid of the electoral college and districting, as well as severely neutering the role of the senate in making laws. Doing all of the above would put more power into the hands of a direct democracy of the people rather than the plutocrats who run the system. But well, we know elections more accurately representing people rather than "regions" or "land" would mean Republicans wouldn't win ever again.
    "Nazis are like cats. If they like you, it's probably because you're feeding them." -John Oliver
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    I don't care if he committed tax fraud. Scoring political victories and crushing the aspirations of your political opponents is more important than adhering to moral principles.
    Knadra finally just admitting Trumpkins care more about political victories than morals.

  7. #7167
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If that is all that matters, then most of Oregon should be allowed to form its own state as well.

    And that there is the ONLY reason you want it to be its own state.
    You know Oregon is already a state, right?

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  8. #7168
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Well of course not Trump... but do you really believe we're "pulling out"??

    We have death squads over there... private military contractors... we're not "pulling out" really.
    US does not have shit there, the moment US withdraws - Taliban will take over completely. They already effectively did in swaths of country.

    This is the reality: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56747158

    And really, it's nobody's fault not Biden's and not Trump's and not Obama's. It's just how it is with that mess of a "country", which is more like a bunch of loosely affiliated tribes filled with religious fanatics locked in some fuzzy borders they don't really care about.

    US failed there just as much as USSR failed there and the "government" will crumble within a year there with everything going back to how it was two decades ago.

    - - - Updated - - -

    P.S. Withdrawal is a correct decision - it's just facing the reality of what's happening there and that it's a pointless waste of time. As a matter of fact, should probably have been done years ago.

  9. #7169
    Banned Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    US does not have shit there, the moment US withdraws - Taliban will take over completely. They already effectively did in swaths of country.

    This is the reality: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-56747158

    And really, it's nobody's fault not Biden's and not Trump's and not Obama's. It's just how it is with that mess of a "country", which is more like a bunch of loosely affiliated tribes filled with religious fanatics locked in some fuzzy borders they don't really care about.

    US failed there just as much as USSR failed there and the "government" will crumble within a year there with everything going back to how it was two decades ago.

    - - - Updated - - -

    P.S. Withdrawal is a correct decision - it's just facing the reality of what's happening there and that it's a pointless waste of time. As a matter of fact, should probably have been done years ago.
    I guess you just want to ignore "how" they rose to such power or the role the USA plays in that.

    You also say we "don't have shit there" but... yeah no we do have a lot of shit there.

    The Pentagon employs more than seven contractors for every service member in Afghanistan, figures from U.S. Central Command show.

    More than 18,000 contractors remain in Afghanistan, a Defense Department report released this week said, after the Pentagon announced Friday it had reduced its troop total in the country to 2,500.

    The contractor population decreased by about 4,300 from last October, down about 20%. The drawdown of U.S. troops over the last year “drove reductions in requirements for contracted support,” the report said.

    About one service member deployed for each contractor a decade ago, at the height of the U.S. troop presence in Afghanistan.

    The ratio grew as limits on troop levels led to a reliance on contractor and temporary duty personnel, a Congressional Research Service paper in 2019 found.

    Concerns about DOD contractor use go back more than a decade. In 2008, Congress established the bipartisan Commission on Wartime Contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan to look into the issue.

    The commission found in 2011 that the two wars led to an “unhealthy over-reliance” on contractors, which often overwhelmed the U.S. government’s ability to effectively oversee or manage them, it said.

    About 4,700 of the contractors are Afghans hired locally, but nearly three-quarters come from outside the country, including about a third who are U.S. citizens, the data in this week’s report show. Many of the rest are from developing countries such as Uganda and Nepal.

  10. #7170
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If that is all that matters, then most of Oregon should be allowed to form its own state as well.

    And that there is the ONLY reason you want it to be its own state.
    Except Oregon is already a state that has representation in Congress.

    DC does not.

    And I proffer that’s the only reason you don’t want it to be a state. Because no one but no one gives a fuck about the antiquated decrees that formed DC, and I’ll air on the side of letting more people have representation in a democracy.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-04-15 at 02:14 PM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  11. #7171
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    So jobless claims are down, retail is up 10%, the DOW is ready to hit 34,000.

    Considering Trump took credit for an imaginary unemployment drop of 42% to 5% the day he was elected, I'm going to give Biden credit for this because of the way he handled the outbreak (competently). Trump supporters who denounce this will announce their own hypocrisy while doing so, and as such, their opinion instantly becomes invalid.

  12. #7172
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Trump supporters who denounce this will announce their own hypocrisy while doing so, and as such, their opinion instantly becomes invalid.
    So they've been invalid since 2015?
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  13. #7173
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    I'd say let's just get rid of the electoral college and districting, as well as severely neutering the role of the senate in making laws. Doing all of the above would put more power into the hands of a direct democracy of the people rather than the plutocrats who run the system. But well, we know elections more accurately representing people rather than "regions" or "land" would mean Republicans wouldn't win ever again.
    @cubby

    In relating to his comment.

    I know it would be impossible to change how Senators are elected or anything short of a constitutional amendment. But would it be possible for them to change how their votes are counted so that their votes are no longer equal to one but instead are equal to the number of people they represent? It would help effectively put the Senate as being MUCH more representative of the people given we have it where 1 voter has 66+ times more power than another voter just due to this stuff.


    Edit:

    And also, with our troop withdraw, would it be possible for US to take the women and children from those areas who want out and accept them as refuges and disperse them among the US and other nations as such when they get to those areas.

    At that point, the Taliban could take over to an area with no women or children present beyond what they bring themselves and enjoy that sausage party. Honestly, I think we should have been doing that the moment we realized that it was going to be useless to try and fix that area within any reasonable timeline.
    Last edited by Fugus; 2021-04-15 at 02:37 PM.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
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  14. #7174
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    @cubby

    In relating to his comment.

    I know it would be impossible to change how Senators are elected or anything short of a constitutional amendment. But would it be possible for them to change how their votes are counted so that their votes are no longer equal to one but instead are equal to the number of people they represent? It would help effectively put the Senate as being MUCH more representative of the people given we have it where 1 voter has 66+ times more power than another voter just due to this stuff.
    Nope. That's what Representatives are.

  15. #7175
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Nope. That's what Representatives are.
    I understand the numbers of Senators are in the constitution and would need an amendment. But HOW they count the votes in the Senate, is that also spelled out in the constitution or is that something that the Senate can modify?
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  16. #7176
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    I understand the numbers of Senators are in the constitution and would need an amendment. But HOW they count the votes in the Senate, is that also spelled out in the constitution or is that something that the Senate can modify?
    Yes. It's part of the "Great Compromise". Each State gets equally represented (and equal weight in their votes) in the Senate.

  17. #7177
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I guess you just want to ignore "how" they rose to such power or the role the USA plays in that.

    You also say we "don't have shit there" but... yeah no we do have a lot of shit there.
    Fancy, putting quotes around something I did not even write nor even address.

    It does not matter that US supplied the very same mujahedeen in 80s nor it matters that you have some contractors there. It's all pointless - the moment last US soldier is out, they will all gradually vanish, while Taliban will just proceed to take over the government and returning the "country" back to what it was just before the war.

    20 years of wasted effort.

  18. #7178
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If that is all that matters, then most of Oregon should be allowed to form its own state as well.

    And that there is the ONLY reason you want it to be its own state.
    They're already represented, even if the person they vote for didn't win. DC has no federal representation, yo.

    I think the US was literally created in a war that began due to people being taxed without government representation.

  19. #7179
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    It just needs to be returned to Maryland and Virginia for voting matters. No need to make it a state.
    Nah, let them become a state.

    They have no representation.

  20. #7180
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    @cubby

    In relating to his comment.

    I know it would be impossible to change how Senators are elected or anything short of a constitutional amendment. But would it be possible for them to change how their votes are counted so that their votes are no longer equal to one but instead are equal to the number of people they represent? It would help effectively put the Senate as being MUCH more representative of the people given we have it where 1 voter has 66+ times more power than another voter just due to this stuff.


    Edit:

    And also, with our troop withdraw, would it be possible for US to take the women and children from those areas who want out and accept them as refuges and disperse them among the US and other nations as such when they get to those areas.

    At that point, the Taliban could take over to an area with no women or children present beyond what they bring themselves and enjoy that sausage party. Honestly, I think we should have been doing that the moment we realized that it was going to be useless to try and fix that area within any reasonable timeline.
    Technically it would be possible to change how their own votes are counted in their own chamber - i.e. the Senate, if I understand you correctly. It would be a very radical change, of course, but it might fall within the Rules Committee of the Senate. I think they could vote to change how their votes are counted, so to speak.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    If that is all that matters, then most of Oregon should be allowed to form its own state as well.

    And that there is the ONLY reason you want it to be its own state.
    Oregon is already a state, with full rights and representations.

    D.C. is not, hence the conversation.

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