1. #7221
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Good news! They’re already a state with full voting rights and representation!
    And returning D.C. to Maryland and Virginia would give the residents of D.C. full voting rights and representation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Chances of east oregon splitting off from west oregon are basically nill even if left up to the people. Sure, some east Oregon dwellers want it, but it's not a wildly popular idea either.

    I'd say let's just get rid of the electoral college and districting, as well as severely neutering the role of the senate in making laws. Doing all of the above would put more power into the hands of a direct democracy of the people rather than the plutocrats who run the system. But well, we know elections more accurately representing people rather than "regions" or "land" would mean Republicans wouldn't win ever again.
    The Senate serves its purpose as intended.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dontrike View Post
    You know Oregon is already a state, right?
    You know I was talking about returning land to states, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Except Oregon is already a state that has representation in Congress.

    DC does not.

    And I proffer that’s the only reason you don’t want it to be a state. Because no one but no one gives a fuck about the antiquated decrees that formed DC, and I’ll air on the side of letting more people have representation in a democracy.
    I want it returned to the states it was carved from. The ONLY reason you want it to be a state is it will be reliably liberal.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  2. #7222
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    And returning D.C. to Maryland and Virginia would give the residents of D.C. full voting rights and representation.
    I guess North and South Carolina should reform into Carolina, North and South Dakota should reform into Dakota, and West Virginia and Virginia should reform into Virginia.

    Or, seeing as how they've been entirely separate entities for centuries, they should stay separate entities, but should still have full representation.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  3. #7223
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They're already represented, even if the person they vote for didn't win. DC has no federal representation, yo.

    I think the US was literally created in a war that began due to people being taxed without government representation.
    So what is wrong with just returning the land back to the states it was taken from? Oh thats right, it would have no effect on the Senate, which is the only reason people want to make it a state.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  4. #7224
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    So what is wrong with just returning the land back to the states it was taken from?
    Because they've been separate for 230 years?

    Do you imagine that the people of D.C. think of themselves as citizens of Maryland or Virginia? Do you imagine that they would vote to "return" to 230 years ago?


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  5. #7225
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I guess North and South Carolina should reform into Carolina, North and South Dakota should reform into Dakota, and West Virginia and Virginia should reform into Virginia.

    Or, seeing as how they've been entirely separate entities for centuries, they should stay separate entities, but should still have full representation.
    There is no viable reason to make it a state vs returning it to the states it was split from. I am willing to bet if D.C. was a Republican stronghold not one supporter here would actually support it becoming a state. This isn't about representation in general, it is about adding Democrat representation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    Because they've been separate for 230 years?

    Do you imagine that the people of D.C. think of themselves as citizens of Maryland or Virginia? Do you imagine that they would vote to "return" to 230 years ago?
    Well, lets put it to a vote, return to the proper states or remain as is.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  6. #7226
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    There is no viable reason to make it a state vs returning it to the states it was split from. I am willing to bet if D.C. was a Republican stronghold not one supporter here would actually support it becoming a state. This isn't about representation in general, it is about adding Democrat representation.

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    Well, lets put it to a vote, return to the proper states or remain as is.
    Nope, bet they would rather vote for statehood than either of those options.

  7. #7227
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    And returning D.C. to Maryland and Virginia would give the residents of D.C. full voting rights and representation.

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    The Senate serves its purpose as intended.

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    You know I was talking about returning land to states, right?

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    I want it returned to the states it was carved from. The ONLY reason you want it to be a state is it will be reliably liberal.
    States aren’t typically allowed to annex new land. Instead new states are created. Yes, I know where the land originated. Much like West Virigina can’t be absorbed by VA, ain’t happening.

  8. #7228
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    There is no viable reason to make it a state vs returning it to the states it was split from. I am willing to bet if D.C. was a Republican stronghold not one supporter here would actually support it becoming a state. This isn't about representation in general, it is about adding Democrat representation.
    I think you'd be surprised. And while many would be less than thrilled, I doubt you'd find any serious contingent actively opposing statehood and representation, which is quite objectively the right thing to do here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Well, lets put it to a vote, return to the proper states or remain as is.
    Holy fucking false dichotomy. Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife or are you still beating her?

    Also, Maryland and Virginia are not "the proper states" after 230 years of separation.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  9. #7229
    The Unstoppable Force Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    Nope, bet they would rather vote for statehood than either of those options.
    Only if they think they will get better handouts.
    Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
    “Whoever said the pen is mightier than the sword obviously never encountered automatic weapons.”
    "His knowledge on that topic is only power point deep..." "Power corrupts and PowerPoint corrupts absolutely."
    "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

  10. #7230
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Only if they think they will get better handouts.
    You can't even fathom the idea that they might want to keep their centuries-old identity as Washington D.C., rather than suddenly become citizens of a neighboring state?


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  11. #7231
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I think you'd be surprised. And while many would be less than thrilled, I doubt you'd find any serious contingent actively opposing statehood and representation, which is quite objectively the right thing to do here.



    Holy fucking false dichotomy. Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife or are you still beating her?

    Also, Maryland and Virginia are not "the proper states" after 230 years of separation.
    The infraction for this post was bullshit. He was pointing out the absurdity of Kellhound's argument; not actually suggesting Kellhound beats his wife.
    ...
    I'm sure she's kept chained in the kitchen instead.


    Infracted.
    Last edited by xskarma; 2021-04-16 at 08:40 PM.

  12. #7232
    I am Murloc! PhaelixWW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    The infraction for this post was bullshit. He was pointing out the absurdity of Kellhound's argument; not actually suggesting Kellhound beats his wife.
    Don't worry about it. I'm not.

    I probably should have used quotes or otherwise made reference to it being the classic false dichotomy / false dilemma / loaded question. I didn't think anyone was going to read it as a serious question, but this is the internet; you always have to be explicit.


    "The difference between stupidity
    and genius is that genius has its limits."

    --Alexandre Dumas-fils

  13. #7233
    Quote Originally Posted by PhaelixWW View Post
    I think you'd be surprised. And while many would be less than thrilled, I doubt you'd find any serious contingent actively opposing statehood and representation, which is quite objectively the right thing to do here.



    Holy fucking false dichotomy. Tell me, have you stopped beating your wife or are you still beating her?

    Also, Maryland and Virginia are not "the proper states" after 230 years of separation.
    @Rozz

    I kindly request a review of this infraction on his behalf.

    If you look at the context involved, it was making a solid point at the false choice the other guy was making by giving an equally false example.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  14. #7234
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    You know I was talking about returning land to states, right?
    That doesn't make your argument any better, whatsoever.

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  15. #7235
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post

    I want it returned to the states it was carved from. The ONLY reason you want it to be a state is it will be reliably liberal.
    The people who live there today have never been represented by Maryland or Virginia. They have no vested interest in any local governance of those states, no interest in their laws or policy, no representation on any counseling body, and have had zero historical input on any of the decisions made by those states.

    And yet you suggest that they just suddenly be subjected to a bunch of laws they had zero input in. Think of every single potential legal discrepancy in your attempts to subjugate people to laws that they never had any input or representation in deciding. If something is legal in D.C. but not in Maryland, are all of the people who were law abiding citizens up until the erasing of D.C. suddenly criminals for simply following the laws that they, as a community, had agreed upon, instead of the laws of what some other state with whom they had zero input on agreed to?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    There is no viable reason to make it a state vs returning it to the states it was split from.
    It has a population that exceeds numerous other extant states. See my above reasoning as to why the people that live there should not be subsumed into some state they aren't from.

    I am willing to bet if D.C. was a Republican stronghold not one supporter here would actually support it becoming a state. This isn't about representation in general, it is about adding Democrat representation.
    "If things were a way they aren't, then I can gaurantee you things would be some other way!" is not a compelling argument.

    And hey, maybe the GOP should formulate a more attractive platform if they want to incentivize the people of DC or Puerto Rico into voting for them. Why is it that the GOP have to fall back on having fewer people voting to remain in power, rather than attempting to incentivize more people to join their party?
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2021-04-16 at 05:21 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  16. #7236
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Well, lets put it to a vote, return to the proper states or remain as is.
    Why don't we just push the continents together so they can return to their proper Pangean formation.
    /s

  17. #7237
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Why don't we just push the continents together so they can return to their proper Pangean formation.
    Better return a good chunk of the country to France while we're at it too.

    Dontrike/Shadow Priest/Black Cell Faction Friend Code - 5172-0967-3866

  18. #7238
    withdrawing from afghanistan is a bad choice
    i opposed it when trump was pres and oppose it now, but even though those are objectively bad decisions they are popular ones, i feel sorry for all of the woman and girls in afghanistan who are now going to be subjected to taliban rule. Its sad when you make a humanitarian plea to defend people being opressed your called a " war monger" There was a time when republicans would be making these points now you have tucker carlson defending the taliban

  19. #7239
    Immortal Milchshake's Avatar
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    The GOP of the 1880's split the Dakotas to game the number of senate seats. Then rushed through low population territories like Idaho etc, to also game the number of senate seats.

    We should return those states to the Lakota and other native people. Since we're playing this revanchist game that conservatives like to play. IBT bigotted remarks that rurals still make about their native neighbors.

    Im cool with them keeping their senators. Or forming a Nunavut type autonomous zone.

    For the history minded people! This will sound familiar.
    In 1889 and 1890, Congress added North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, Washington, Idaho, and Wyoming—the largest admission of states since the original 13. This addition of 12 new senators and 18 new electors to the Electoral College was a deliberate strategy of late-19th-century Republicans to stay in power after their swing toward Big Business cost them a popular majority.
    Last edited by Milchshake; 2021-04-16 at 02:17 PM.

  20. #7240
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    "There is none, because nothing is happening if we're not building anything."
    First of all, this can be handwaved with "there is a zero point negative zero percent chance that building the Wall is somehow better for the environment than just cleaning up and going home."

    But second of all, the correct response is "Okay, fine, we'll take a survey OH LOOK it's the better option." I mean, what's AZ going to do? Force them to stop stop building?

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