Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[starlord]

Again, Republicans aren't required to filibuster. They could, for instance, NOT filibuster. Or, they could filibuster, but 10 of them could "break ranks." You've staked out a position where you've acceded it's a given that Republicans, for a variety of reasons, are too far gone to do the work of governing, but then claim it's Democrats' job to enable them not to. This feels like an argument where we're saying, "Republicans are deranged* they won't work with Democrats," and you're saying, "But Republicans are deranged! They won't work with Democrats!"

*I don't mean deranged as in mentally unsound, I'll leave that to others to speculate, but deranged as in "disordered in function."

my issue is, its not an "internal party matter" as some have said when its affecting the whole country.

people seem to keep mistaking "dems need to leave avenues open for repubs to redeem themselves, as they are already doing, and keep working to repair the enmity between them" for "dems do whatever repubs want" or something.

saying "well they can just do whatever we want instead" is not really a solution. the sick wound won't heal itself.

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Repubs said the same.

ding ding, thats the point.

[Fugus]

whats the difference between "fuck democrats because we are morally superior, they won't let us do what we want" and "fuck republicans because we are morally superior, they won't let us do what we want"?

oh and so after all's said and done, who's going to put down the (figurative) gun first?

Republican: I want to shoot you and your children in the head.

Democrats: I would rather not and just work to make the nation better.

Republican: Fine, let’s compromise and just shoot and your children in the face while talking about fixing the nation but not actually doing anything.

Democrat: No, that isn’t even doing anything. Can you try another option?

Republican: Nope, that’s the best offer I got.

Starlord: See!! Both sides!

[starlord]

Nobody is demanding that Republicans suddenly support Democratic positions. That's the strawman dude. That's where you're going off the rails.

so what exactly is "ignoring them till they agree with us" supposed to accomplish then?

[Machismo]

so what exactly is "ignoring them till they agree with us" supposed to accomplish then?

What exactly is pandering to Nazis supposed to accomplish?

[Edge-]

my issue is, its not an "internal party matter" as some have said when its affecting the whole country.

It is an internal party matter. Literally nobody but them can solve it. It affecting the whole country is irrelevant.

people seem to keep mistaking "dems need to leave avenues open for repubs to redeem themselves, as they are already doing, and keep working to repair the enmity between them" for "dems do whatever repubs want" or something.

Dems don't need to do shit. Republicans are welcome back to the bargaining table whenever they can find their big boy pants and whenever they stop being terrified of getting lynched by their base.

[Fugus]

All joking aside, I just had to skip like the last 3 pages because of nothing to read but back and forth like when dealing with the libertarian stuff that Rozz had to stop and redirect.

[starlord]

Republican: I want to shoot you and your children in the head.

Democrats: I would rather not and just work to make the nation better.

Republican: Fine, let’s compromise and just shoot and your children in the face while talking about fixing the nation but not actually doing anything.

Democrat: No, that isn’t even doing anything. Can you try another option?

Republican: Nope, that’s the best offer I got.

Starlord: See!! Both sides!

its not both sides until the dems say "we're going to shoot your children in the face whether you like it or not with no way of challenging it. i can do that because i'm the good guy here."

[Edge-]

so what exactly is "ignoring them till they agree with us" supposed to accomplish then?

Again, literally nobody is saying this. Nobody expects Republicans to suddenly turn into Democrats.

Ignore them until they're willing to work in good faith, period. You know, come to the negotiating table and be willing to compromise. Come with some serious proposals and detailed plans of their own instead of a rough outline that's hardly a few pages long. If they're gonna clamber on about "repeal and replace" for 8 years, maybe they should have had something ready for it instead of getting caught with their pants down and no plan after nearly a decade. If they're going to pass a sweeping tax cut that literally ever economist with a brain says is a terrible, awful, no-good idea, at least make sure that members have a chance to read it and the bill they're voting on doesn't have notes scribbled in the margins in dozens of different handwriting styles.

Like, start acting like a functional, serious political party. Good lord, this is basic shit.

[Fugus]

its not both sides until the dems say "we're going to shoot your children in the face whether you like it or not with no way of challenging it. i can do that because i'm the good guy here."

Nice hypothetical but that doesn’t match reality and what you are calling both sides on.

[starlord]

What exactly is pandering to Nazis supposed to accomplish?

what has the current administration done, or plan to do to pander to nazis?
thats the context of this conversation.

[Machismo]

what has the current administration done, or plan to do to pander to nazis?
thats the context of this conversation.

Nothing, that's the point... You are the one who wants everyone to pander to Nazis.

[starlord]

Nothing, that's the point... You are the one who wants everyone to pander to Nazis.

when did i say that? i said bidens doing a good job, keep it up. i bet repubs might even be willing to work with this proposal. and then everyone jumped in with "republicans are EeeeeVViiL! anyone who suggest that they could possibly be worked with on anything is saying dems should have their children shot!!"

[Machismo]

when did i say that? i said bidens doing a good job, keep it up. i bet repubs might even be willing to work with this proposal. and then everyone jumped in with "republicans are EeeeeVViiL! anyone who suggest that they could possibly be worked with on anything is saying dems should have their children shot!!"

Your entire whine has been to pander to them, as if it's the Democrats responsibility to fix the GOP.

It's like you aren't even reading the shit you are typing.

[starlord]

Your entire whine has been to pander to them, as if it's the Democrats responsibility to fix the GOP.

It's like you aren't even reading the shit you are typing.

then i guess you think biden is currently pandering to nazis since hes doing just what i have been typing about.

[Machismo]

then i guess you think biden is currently pandering to nazis since hes doing just what i have been typing about.

You can guess all you like, you are blaming Democrats for not fixing something they are not even able to fix.

[Edge-]

then i guess you think biden is currently pandering to nazis since hes doing just what i have been typing about.

Wait...you've been complaining that Democrats aren't being bipartisan enough for pages...can you make up your mind?

[starlord]

You can guess all you like, you are blaming Democrats for not fixing something they are not even able to fix.

well they are trying despite everyones strenuous objection. imagine fist bumping a nazi!

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Wait...you've been complaining that Democrats aren't being bipartisan enough for pages...can you make up your mind?

no i haven't? i said we shouldn't go down the road of completely shutting it out as you have been saying for pages.

[Machismo]

well they are trying despite everyones strenuous objection. imagine fist bumping a nazi!

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no i haven't? i said we shouldn't go down the road of completely shutting it out as you have been saying for pages.

It's not the job of the Democrats to fix the utter depravity that is the GOP.

They aren't being shut out, they are being told to grow the fuck up, and not be the party of Nazis.

[Edge-]

no i haven't? i said we shouldn't go down the road of completely shutting it out as you have been saying for pages.

Then you're being painfully unclear. Because you've been complaining that Democats aren't fixing internal problems with Republicans and that they need to be more bipartisan. The only reason Republicans are being "shut out" now is because they're not even attempting to come to the bargaining table in good faith, despite the efforts of Biden and Democrats to give them every opportunity to do so.

In that absence, Democrats are rightfully moving ahead with their priorities and ignoring the Republicans.

[starlord]

Then you're being painfully unclear. Because you've been complaining that Democats aren't fixing internal problems with Republicans and that they need to be more bipartisan. The only reason Republicans are being "shut out" now is because they're not even attempting to come to the bargaining table in good faith, despite the efforts of Biden and Democrats to give them every opportunity to do so.

In that absence, Democrats are rightfully moving ahead with their priorities and ignoring the Republicans.

i think everyones just had their "i hate repub" mode on for so long that even the barest suggestion that they might be redeemable makes them see red. the dems are trying different tactics than they have been so far, and i think its a good thing that should continue. before it was just a kind of flailing about.

seems to be flying over most people's heads anyways.