1. #7481
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,344
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    it works because it aligns with what the gop base wants as well as the dem base.
    If what you said were true then Republicans would have actually voted for said policies. But they don't, even when said policy is manifestly popular with their base. So just maybe the problem isn't actually a lack of compromising on the Democrats part.

    i realize that this is the internet, but when you want to persuade someone to your point of view irl you don't usually open with "you're a nazi and or facist" no matter how correct it is.
    Why not? Republicans consistently open with policies aimed at the extermination of my demographic.

    in fact treating people as "the enemy" is the favored facist tactic (oh no, the horseshoe has come around!)
    "Calling people fascists is actually the real fascism" - someone who has no idea what fascism is and believes it's just a byword for bad person.

    Gee I wonder why the Rand Institute has an interest in keeping fascism platformed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #7482
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You really seem dead-set on never addressing people's actual points, and just repeatedly offer new straw men instead.

    Your role as an advisor is to give your professional opinions based on facts and ethical best practices. It's not your role to make decisions for the policymakers. I never said I worked in campaign strategy or as a public relations guy, so I have no idea why the hell you're introducing more straw men here. You're just willfully refusing to understand what others are saying.
    its not a strawman, you literally said that all people who voted for trump are nazis even if they didn't necessarily care about his facist ideals.

  3. #7483
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    18,809
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    i realize that this is the internet, but when you want to persuade someone to your point of view irl you don't usually open with "you're a nazi and or facist" no matter how correct it is.
    Your every post in this thread has been telling us to walk on eggshells around the fascists so they don't get mad. Repetition doesn't persuade either, especially when you repeat something so vile.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    its not a strawman, you literally said that all people who voted for trump are nazis even if they didn't necessarily care about his facist ideals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If you're going to vote for Trump for stupid, indefensible reasons, that makes you as much a Trumpster as the mouth-frothing racist ranting about the oncoming "race war" and "blood for soil".
    Try again.
    /s

  4. #7484
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    If what you said were true then Republicans would have actually voted for said policies. But they don't, even when said policy is manifestly popular with their base. So just maybe the problem isn't actually a lack of compromising on the Democrats part.
    you know perfectly well that there are certain hot button issues that make people not vote democrat even if they like some dem policies.
    Why not? Republicans consistently open with policies aimed at the extermination of my demographic.

    "Calling people fascists is actually the real fascism" - someone who has no idea what fascism is and believes it's just a byword for bad person.
    no, but painting everyone as an irredeemable evil orc isn't productive to reaching those who aren't too far gone.
    Gee I wonder why the Rand Institute has an interest in keeping fascism platformed.
    idk, whats considered an acceptable source on deradicalization studies for you?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Your every post in this thread has been telling us to walk on eggshells around the fascists so they don't get mad. Repetition doesn't persuade either, especially when you repeat something so vile.
    call them what you want, then see what it achieves. are they gonna be thrown in the anti facist camps after standing before the tribunal who goes over every trump facebook post they made?
    Try again.
    uh what? lol.

  5. #7485
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    18,809
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    uh what? lol.
    If this is the best you can muster then it seems my earlier assessment that you're a waste of time was accurate, good thing I had some time to waste today, but now I'm done.
    /s

  6. #7486
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    If this is the best you can muster then it seems my earlier assessment that you're a waste of time was accurate, good thing I had some time to waste today, but now I'm done.
    i'm not sure how else to take "if you voted for trump because you wanted lower taxes then you are just as bad as literal nazis chanting blood and soil", but see ya.

  7. #7487
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    79,158
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    its not a strawman, you literally said that all people who voted for trump are nazis even if they didn't necessarily care about his facist ideals.
    Literally did not.

    You're making that shit up.

    This is why nobody can take your position seriously. You keep lying about what people have actually said, to attack a straw man you've made up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    i'm not sure how else to take "if you voted for trump because you wanted lower taxes then you are just as bad as literal nazis chanting blood and soil", but see ya.
    If you voted for Trump "because you wanted lower taxes", then it's because the race-baiting and misogyny and calls for violence and constant lying were, none of them, deal-breakers. You were totally fine supporting all of that. Because you did. By voting for him.

    The same way a German who voted for Hitler because you were concerned about the welfare of the German ethnonation was, by definition, a Nazi.

    That's what was said. You're twisting yourself in knots trying to make it out to be something it wasn't.


  8. #7488
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Literally did not.

    You're making that shit up.

    This is why nobody can take your position seriously. You keep lying about what people have actually said, to attack a straw man you've made up.
    since i seem to somehow keep misinterpreting you, why don't you clarify your position on bidens current outreach efforts to trump voters?

  9. #7489
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    you know perfectly well that there are certain hot button issues that make people not vote democrat even if they like some dem policies.
    Name these issues.

  10. #7490
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Name these issues.
    well sadly those topics are largely banned on this forum. which shows how much they affect politics.

  11. #7491
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    well sadly those topics are largely banned on this forum. which shows how much they affect politics.
    The Party of Trump (as opposed to the GOP) is mostly about of radical extremism. And there isn't any compromise with the likes of that. It would be like trying to shine up shit.

  12. #7492
    "I like the idea of universal healthcare but not when it's going to lazy welfare queens"

  13. #7493
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    "I like the idea of universal healthcare but not when it's going to lazy welfare queens"
    Not sure the nations farmers or the Walton family will like you calling them out like that.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  14. #7494
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    Not sure the nations farmers or the Walton family will like you calling them out like that.
    it would be one thing if these farmers were actual mom and pop operations but those barely even exist anymore as is.

  15. #7495
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    The Party of Trump (as opposed to the GOP) is mostly about of radical extremism. And there isn't any compromise with the likes of that. It would be like trying to shine up shit.
    indeed. theres a part of america that has become radicalized to extreme politics and violence.
    but consider: how has the war on terrorism gone? do you think there may have been a better way to combat extremism than that? what makes people turn to extremism?

  16. #7496
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Made in Philly, living in Akron.
    Posts
    4,572
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    indeed. theres a part of america that has become radicalized to extreme politics and violence.
    but consider: how has the war on terrorism gone? do you think there may have been a better way to combat extremism than that? what makes people turn to extremism?
    Propaganda and lies, and you don't fight those things by telling people to not point out and name fascism as it occurs because it's "not nice" to tell the people doing it that they're acting like fascists.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  17. #7497
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    79,158
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    since i seem to somehow keep misinterpreting you, why don't you clarify your position on bidens current outreach efforts to trump voters?
    He's trying to garner enough votes to pass a bill.

    That's not even remotely what a "bipartisan" approach to legislation looks like, where you'd be getting majority support for bills by both parties.

    If Biden had strong enough support in the House and a majority in the Senate, he wouldn't need to even consider pulling in Republican votes.


  18. #7498
    Quote Originally Posted by downnola View Post
    Propaganda and lies, and you don't fight those things by telling people to not point out and name fascism as it occurs because it's "not nice" to tell the people doing it that they're acting like fascists.
    yes, propaganda should be combated.
    endus is correct in saying that these people saw the facism and were like "don't care", or "yes please."
    now where do you go? you can call it facism till you're blue in the face and it doesn't change anything. meanwhile they're still out there voting for facists.

  19. #7499
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    indeed. theres a part of america that has become radicalized to extreme politics and violence.
    but consider: how has the war on terrorism gone? do you think there may have been a better way to combat extremism than that? what makes people turn to extremism?
    I mean, US foreign policy is arguably the single greatest inspiration of extremism we see now a days.

    if you're referring to the US itself; well, generations of narcissistic propaganda and a crumbling empire does that.

  20. #7500
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Made in Philly, living in Akron.
    Posts
    4,572
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    yes, propaganda should be combated.
    endus is correct in saying that these people saw the facism and were like "don't care", or "yes please."
    now where do you go? you can call it facism till you're blue in the face and it doesn't change anything. meanwhile they're still out there voting for facists.
    They're not the majority, if they were they wouldn't have to try to game elections every two years. Therefore, it shouldn't be a concern to coddle them and try to work with them. You beat them by opposing them wherever you find them.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •