1. #7801
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    frankly i'd be shocked if dems kept the house in any case.
    ask a person on the street if they know what HR1 is.
    Even if they did it wouldn't matter, the stimulus bill had 80%+ approval rating zero republicans voted for it and Manchin obstructed it as much as he could. The government is not moved by public opinion has not for decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    I don’t see how reversing what the previous administration did, means that the previous administration didn’t do anything.
    What moves the needle is legislations and supreme court justices, all else is a temporary reprieve.

  2. #7802
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Even if they did it wouldn't matter, the stimulus bill had 80%+ approval rating zero republicans voted for it and Manchin obstructed it as much as he could.
    well there you go.
    speaking of history, it's not common for the ruling party to keep a hold on congress during midterms. this is something dems anticipate already.

  3. #7803
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    well there you go.
    speaking of history, it's not common for the ruling party to keep a hold on congress during midterms. this is something dems anticipate already.
    Yeah I guess I got too optimistic from his speech. The most likely result is that nothing passes, and republicans retake the House and Senate in 2022.

    I will still give President Biden credit for trying though.

  4. #7804
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Yeah I guess I got too optimistic from his speech. The most likely result is that nothing passes, and republicans retake the House and Senate in 2022.

    I will still give President Biden credit for trying though.
    i think the likely strat is they will stick with the more easily marketable/bipartisan stuff until after midterms. if it shakes out OK or better they might swing for the fences. which is typical.

  5. #7805
    gotta nuke that filabuster to get anyhting done right?

  6. #7806
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    i think the likely strat is they will stick with the more easily marketable/bipartisan stuff until after midterms. if it shakes out OK or better they might swing for the fences. which is typical.
    So nothing will happen glad we agree, bipartisanship doesn't exist in congress. Frankly how do you negotiate with people who still support the guy who wanted to overthrow democracy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    gotta nuke that filabuster to get anyhting done right?
    Yup until then it's just nice words people will forget

  7. #7807
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    So nothing will happen glad we agree, bipartisanship doesn't exist in congress. Frankly how do you negotiate with people who still support the guy who wanted you dead.
    define "nothing"? all of the stuff in his speech is pretty doable. hes just taking the boiling the toad approach for the more hot button issues, which is smart imo.

  8. #7808
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    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    define "nothing"? all of the stuff in his speech is pretty doable. hes just taking the boiling the toad approach for the more hot button issues, which is smart imo.
    But they were promised The Revolution would be on Twitch! Fires and tEH burninNG DOwn the EstabLISHMEnt!

    They spent five years of crafting their online personas around this and other bad takes. Finding out that progressive policy requires meetings and doing homework ... does not compute.

  9. #7809
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    define "nothing"? all of the stuff in his speech is pretty doable. hes just taking the boiling the toad approach for the more hot button issues, which is smart imo.
    Because congress controls the purse, how else do you think he will get to turn on the stove on the toad?

  10. #7810
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    But they were promised The Revolution would be on Twitch! Fires and tEH burninNG DOwn the EstabLISHMEnt!

    They spent five years of crafting their online personas around this and other bad takes. Finding out that progressive policy requires meetings and doing homework ... does not compute.
    part of bidens "appeal" so to speak is that hes a card carrying member of the good ol boys club.
    you know, backroom meetings, cigars, whiskey, handshakes. Some (which i cannot emphasize enough) of Obamas problems came from being considered an "upstart", & Biden put in a lot of work for what he did manage to get done.
    So if anyone's likely to succeed in finagling, its Biden.

  11. #7811
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Biden has already been more progressive than Obama. I liked Piker’s take... It’s like sucking on grapefruit after a lemon, and thinking it tastes sweet.
    Well, there has been more...juice. For an electorate that's been feeling a bit dehydrated I'd say grapefruit is, well, breakfast.

  12. #7812
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    So nothing will happen glad we agree, bipartisanship doesn't exist in congress. Frankly how do you negotiate with people who still support the guy who wanted to overthrow democracy.
    The concept of "bipartisanship" basically died the moment the Tea Party was invited to the table with the adults. They've since morphed into Trumpsters, and they've metastasized to corrupt the entire party, to the point that the 2020 campaign didn't even have a platform, other than "We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump." There's maybe a handful of representatives on the Republican side who aren't fully corrupted by this groupthink, and the voters aren't much better.

    "Bipartisanship" means you're trying to make policy that appeals to both parties. And when Republican policy for years has pretty much solely been about dismantling democracy, instituting and supporting systemic racism (not to mention inflaming outbursts of direct racism), and stonewalling literally any idea the Democrats come up with solely because of its support by Democrats, trying to find common ground is not defensible. The middle ground between "let's end racism" and "no, more racism" is "okay, racism". That "bipartisan" idea is "let's continue protecting and allowing racist abuses". That's a win for Republicans, not a "bipartisan" move.

    Bipartisanship died because Republicans have become so extremist that the middle ground between the parties is extremist and toxic too.

  13. #7813
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    gotta nuke that filabuster to get anyhting done right?
    There are exceptions, such as "the nuclear option". But to pass a large number of bills with a 50/50 Senate, yes.

    This is why everyone's been cautious to do it. Imagine if McConnell had removed the filibuster in, say, 2017. First of all, the ACA would have been repealed because they would have had infinite attempts. But second of all, while we had a split House/Senate last two years, we don't now. McConnell knew full well his time as leader was limted and didn't want to risk...well, the situation right now having infinite ammo, either.

    If the only choices are "both sides can pass everything" and "neither side can pass anything on their own" I'll sigh quietly and eventually take the latter. At least that way, major laws aren't changing every two years.

  14. #7814
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The concept of "bipartisanship" basically died the moment the Tea Party was invited to the table with the adults. They've since morphed into Trumpsters, and they've metastasized to corrupt the entire party, to the point that the 2020 campaign didn't even have a platform, other than "We love Trump. We love Trump. We love Trump." There's maybe a handful of representatives on the Republican side who aren't fully corrupted by this groupthink, and the voters aren't much better.

    "Bipartisanship" means you're trying to make policy that appeals to both parties. And when Republican policy for years has pretty much solely been about dismantling democracy, instituting and supporting systemic racism (not to mention inflaming outbursts of direct racism), and stonewalling literally any idea the Democrats come up with solely because of its support by Democrats, trying to find common ground is not defensible. The middle ground between "let's end racism" and "no, more racism" is "okay, racism". That "bipartisan" idea is "let's continue protecting and allowing racist abuses". That's a win for Republicans, not a "bipartisan" move.

    Bipartisanship died because Republicans have become so extremist that the middle ground between the parties is extremist and toxic too.
    i think its a mistake to dismiss any and all repubs as rabid animals who cannot be reasoned with, especially the older ones who run the show. with exceptions. they put on a face & do a dance for the public eye but behind the scenes they do sort of make the attempt still. its a lot harder to rile up the base over "kindly old white man" as they have already admitted.

  15. #7815
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    i think its a mistake to dismiss any and all repubs as rabid animals who cannot be reasoned with, especially the older ones who run the show. with exceptions. they put on a face & do a dance for the public eye but behind the scenes they do sort of make the attempt still. its a lot harder to rile up the base over "kindly old white man" as they have already admitted.
    Sorry, until they rebuke and stand up against the BS they will be lumped in with them. As much of a PoS that Justin Amash and Joe Walsh are they at least spoke up. Not one guy currently in office has the balls to even do that. So fuxk them all, they are all equal until the actually do something about it.

  16. #7816
    Quote Originally Posted by SirBeef View Post
    Sorry, until they rebuke and stand up against the BS they will be lumped in with them. As much of a PoS that Justin Amash and Joe Walsh are they at least spoke up. Not one guy currently in office has the balls to even do that. So fuxk them all, they are all equal until the actually do something about it.
    repubs don't have to be principled or nice guys, just agree to pass the infrastructure bill etc. they can make up whatever justification is palatable to the plebs. and biden doesn't need all of them, just enough.

  17. #7817
    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    repubs don't have to be principled or nice guys, just agree to pass the infrastructure bill etc.
    If you saw their "rebuttal" you wouldn't be bothering with this, because after 4 years of "INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK" their rebuttal was basically a few notes scratched on the back of a fuckin napkin.

    It has nothing to do about principle or being nice, and everything to do with being serious or acting in good faith. Republican's are not serious (see: ACA repeal and replace that failed in part because after 8 years of complaining about the ACA they hadn't actually bothered writing any replacement legislation), nor do they act in good faith at any juncture (see: Holding a SCOTUS seat open for almost a full year, and then filling a similarly open SCOTUS seat within months of an election).

    Quote Originally Posted by starlord View Post
    and biden doesn't need all of them, just enough.
    He doesn't need any that aren't willing to work in good faith, actually. At all.

  18. #7818
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    If you saw their "rebuttal" you wouldn't be bothering with this, because after 4 years of "INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK" their rebuttal was basically a few notes scratched on the back of a fuckin napkin.
    It's my strong belief (or "firm rebuttal" for the ladies...) that the rebuttal was written before Biden's speech. That's probably the case the whole time of course, writing a speech isn't fast or easy. It's not like it was given by Sen. Robin Williams or Rep. Jonathan Winters. But not only have we seen that the Republican Party is the Party of No since 2010 or so, but we've also seen Biden rack up win after win and promise (honestly?) more progressive stuff is yet to come. They're debating against ideas, not results, because the results so far have been "we still need to help the average American recover from Trump's lethal outbreak".

    Speaking of recover:

    GDP roars to 6.4 percent in first quarter of 2021

    At this point, I'm tempted to go back to Trump's best quarter (4.1% at the time I think, but apparently it was 4.3% last quarter) quote literally everyone who said that was good, and do another 24-hour challenge which they'd refuse to answer because they've run away in shame, got banned, or are cowards. But there's no point. They'd say "oh this is just recovery and bla bla weak excuse bla". And then I'd say "and Trump's unemployment record that he kept bragging about was..." and they'd go cry into their single scoop of ice cream.

    Because once you open the door to "this number happened while I was in charge, therefore I take credit for it" which Trump did over and over ad obesium, the only fair thing is to return the favor.

    Biden just had the biggest first-quarter GDP increase since 1984. He also beat every single quarter Trump ever had by at least two percent. Consumption is up. Personal savings are also up, how about that paradox? Unemployment is down, 553,000 new claims is still not great but it's a lot lower than we've seen. And:

    Personal income, which had dropped $351.4 billion, or 6.9 percent in the previous quarter, increased a whopping $2.4 trillion, a surge of 59 percent.
    Hoy fucking shit.

    Now to be fair: yes, a lot of this is from both the spread of the vaccine and also the latest payments. Biden cannot take 100% credit, not honestly.

    *ahem*

    But.

    Considering how Trump fought like hell to get people back into shops and stores and golf courses, killing 500,000 Americans to do so, and still seems to oppose vaccination (his only "get a shot" messages seem to have been done at political gunpoint), and he still didn't get this kind of growth, he can take zero percent credit. Anti-vaxxers like Trump and the rabid fanbase were fighting this tooth and nail.

    This is what "the numbers became real" actually looks like. A slow but steady progress driven by the private sector with tangible hope for the future. 200 million vaccinated and more on the way. Helping hard-working Americans who need it. And most importantly, wearing the damn mask.

    I want that 6.4% number on every headline, every channel's news, every site's alert section. I want the Fat Orange Fuck to see it everywhere he goes, which I suspect is "his couch, his golf course, his toilet, not always in that order".

    I want him, and I want the rabid fanbase, to know Trump failed at everything he tried.

    And remember, buy and support local. Safely.

  19. #7819
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    If you saw their "rebuttal" you wouldn't be bothering with this, because after 4 years of "INFRASTRUCTURE WEEK" their rebuttal was basically a few notes scratched on the back of a fuckin napkin.

    It has nothing to do about principle or being nice, and everything to do with being serious or acting in good faith. Republican's are not serious (see: ACA repeal and replace that failed in part because after 8 years of complaining about the ACA they hadn't actually bothered writing any replacement legislation), nor do they act in good faith at any juncture (see: Holding a SCOTUS seat open for almost a full year, and then filling a similarly open SCOTUS seat within months of an election).

    He doesn't need any that aren't willing to work in good faith, actually. At all.
    that proves my point. none of them actually wanted to repeal the bill because they knew it would hurt their base once the base figured out what it *really* meant. it was all just a bluff.

    the "block dems at every turn and say they do nothing" schtick is getting pretty old, so it's more of a gamble for them. that's what bidens betting on. "are you sure third times the charm?"
    not sure what good faith really has to do with it as its not something that relies on that.

    his job is to convince repubs its in their own best interest to support him, which looking at the meat and potatoes of his proposals shouldn't be that hard as it affects the repub base heavily, as well as the suburban cohort that swung to dems. could backfire very heavily on repubs if they oppose it.

    if he succeeds i think we will see even bigger stuff.
    basically i'm just not getting all the doom & gloom thats being thrown around.

  20. #7820
    @Breccia

    Let’s say the filibuster stays intact and HR1 doesn’t make it through and then Georgia becomes the template for every GOP run state within the next 2 years in short order.

    Then what becomes the odds of the DNC or the nation itself?

    Because without HR1, I see that as their outcome.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

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