1. #8241
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    There aren't enough bedbugs in the world for him and Sinema. I think Manchin is just really enjoying all the power and being the center of most legislative political attention.

    Democrats need to remind him that they have other moderates who aren't such pieces of shit that they can run against him in a primary. Do they actually exist? I dunno, but they need to start leaning on him hard.
    I don't think he cares. I'm not even sure he'll run again, he's getting up there in years. He's bought and paid for. Corrupt through and through. Only thing that'll change his mind is his pocket book, and his pocket book is being filled by the same people who are filling right wing pocket books. It's all there to see in his campaign funding. There is a reason he went into the senate 10 years ago 100% against the filibuster and is now 100% all in on the filibuster. Corruption. simple as.

  2. #8242
    Manchin and Synema are basically Rand Paul/Ted Cruz circa 2012 redux.

    Funny thing, earlier this year when everyone was being all excited about the senate going 50+1 the Dems way, I already pointed out that it's still basically 52 Republicans in the Senate.

  3. #8243
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Manchin and Synema are basically Rand Paul/Ted Cruz circa 2012 redux.

    Funny thing, earlier this year when everyone was being all excited about the senate going 50+1 the Dems way, I already pointed out that it's still basically 52 Republicans in the Senate.
    I'm done with my masters in a couple of months...then it's finally time to try and leave this place lol.

  4. #8244
    regarding the filibuster i really don't know why the democrats don't make the republicans actually do it. put up shed loads of identical laws and make the fucking bastards turn up and filibuster it. Call them up a at 8pm before a holiday weekend, keep them there till 4am and refuse to go on recess until there is a bill. Make it fucking miserable. You really think these shallow fuckers will actually bother to do it?

  5. #8245
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Manchin and Synema are basically Rand Paul/Ted Cruz circa 2012 redux.

    Funny thing, earlier this year when everyone was being all excited about the senate going 50+1 the Dems way, I already pointed out that it's still basically 52 Republicans in the Senate.
    I think someone on my Facebook put it well a couple days ago when they said that the Democrats didn't get control of the Senate, they just prevented the Republicans from having it.

  6. #8246
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    Manchin and Synema are basically Rand Paul/Ted Cruz circa 2012 redux.

    Funny thing, earlier this year when everyone was being all excited about the senate going 50+1 the Dems way, I already pointed out that it's still basically 52 Republicans in the Senate.
    At least Sinema caucuses with her party the majority of the time. But, even then, we have two independents who caucus with Dem's more than these two, one who was demonized for even daring to run as a democrat...

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    regarding the filibuster i really don't know why the democrats don't make the republicans actually do it. put up shed loads of identical laws and make the fucking bastards turn up and filibuster it. Call them up a at 8pm before a holiday weekend, keep them there till 4am and refuse to go on recess until there is a bill. Make it fucking miserable. You really think these shallow fuckers will actually bother to do it?
    Yes they will bother to do it. Ted Cruz in fact did just that, and than blamed Obama for playing pool while ted cruz was filibustering while the entire govt was shut down.

  7. #8247
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    At least Sinema caucuses with her party the majority of the time. But, even then, we have two independents who caucus with Dem's more than these two, one who was demonized for even daring to run as a democrat...
    Don't worry my man. Milchshake will drop by soon and explain to us how all this is really Sanders' fault and Manchin, Synema and the DNC are just playing some brilliant 8 dimensional temporal space time continuum chess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    regarding the filibuster i really don't know why the democrats don't make the republicans actually do it. put up shed loads of identical laws and make the fucking bastards turn up and filibuster it. Call them up a at 8pm before a holiday weekend, keep them there till 4am and refuse to go on recess until there is a bill. Make it fucking miserable. You really think these shallow fuckers will actually bother to do it?
    I think you underestimate the level of meth head Qanon crazy that permeates the GOP.

  8. #8248
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    I don't think he cares. I'm not even sure he'll run again, he's getting up there in years. He's bought and paid for. Corrupt through and through. Only thing that'll change his mind is his pocket book, and his pocket book is being filled by the same people who are filling right wing pocket books. It's all there to see in his campaign funding. There is a reason he went into the senate 10 years ago 100% against the filibuster and is now 100% all in on the filibuster. Corruption. simple as.
    Biden has to publicly attack him, cut off his funding and make sure hit him where it hurt. I don't understand why they are treating this fucker with baby gloves the way it is now nothing will get done they got nothing to lose. If the voting rights bill doesn't pass democrats will lose the senate and the house, this is what frustrates me about democrats no one has any balls. You would think after 4 years of watching republican being assholes they would have learned something about stealing power.

  9. #8249
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Biden has to publicly attack him, cut off his funding and make sure hit him where it hurt. I don't understand why they are treating this fucker with baby gloves the way it is now nothing will get done they got nothing to lose. If the voting rights bill doesn't pass democrats will lose the senate and the house, this is what frustrates me about democrats no one has any balls. You would think after 4 years of watching republican being assholes they would have learned something about stealing power.
    Biden did publicly attack him. He said in a speech a week ago in Tulsa that he can't get his agenda or voting rights going because 'Sinema and Manchin vote more with his republican friends.'

    As I said, Manchin gives no fucks except his pocket book. Dems is HUGE tent, but are in complete lockstep except for Manchin and to a slightly less Sinema, at least publically. TBH wouldn't be suprised if Sinema and Manchin were replaced by another Warren and Bernie, that Filibuster would still exist. Remember there was 8 dem's who voted against $15 minimum wage. I think a handful would vote against ridding the filibuster, they're just not writing op-ed's about it.

  10. #8250
    Quote Originally Posted by DKjaigen View Post
    So what did Biden do?
    A vaccine program on how to get people to actually get the vaccines? Trump had no fucking plan, Biden did. Because Biden actually ran the H1N1 Virus pandemic response team. He knew what needed to be done because he isn't fucking stupid like Trump is.

  11. #8251
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Biden did publicly attack him. He said in a speech a week ago in Tulsa that he can't get his agenda or voting rights going because 'Sinema and Manchin vote more with his republican friends.'

    As I said, Manchin gives no fucks except his pocket book. Dems is HUGE tent, but are in complete lockstep except for Manchin and to a slightly less Sinema, at least publically. TBH wouldn't be suprised if Sinema and Manchin were replaced by another Warren and Bernie, that Filibuster would still exist. Remember there was 8 dem's who voted against $15 minimum wage. I think a handful would vote against ridding the filibuster, they're just not writing op-ed's about it.
    Biden didn't even say their names that's a really weak attack not to mention Schummer and Pelosi are quiet as mice. I mean contrast this with Liz Cheney who had the entire establishment dog pile on her. And Biden can go after his pocket book hurt his fundraising and drag their names in the mud, who cares about a tent that accomplishes nothing.

    The fact that Manchin is getting away with his clown show is how you create dissent within the ranks. They cannot keep these two yahoos in line then the party is going to into the election fighting each other.
    Last edited by Draco-Onis; 2021-06-08 at 12:31 AM.

  12. #8252
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Biden didn't even say their names that's a really weak attack not to mention Schummer and Pelosi are quiet as mice. I mean contrast this with Liz Cheney who had the entire establishment dog pile on her. And Biden can go after his pocket book hurt his fundraising and drag their names in the mud, who cares about a tent that accomplishes nothing.

    The fact that Manchin is getting away with his clown show is how you create dissent within the ranks. They cannot keep these two yahoos in line then the party is going to into the election fighting each other.
    Biden didn't need to say their names, everyone knows who he's talking about. Also Explain how Biden can hurt his fundraising when his top donors are gas and oil, as I already stated. I'd love to hear how that is gonna go down.

    Edit- I just want to say, I understand your argument, and point of view. It's just the reality is, they don't have leverage on Manchin, He knows which is why he's getting away with this, Dem leadership knows it, which is why they can't stop him, and the country is right fucked because of it.
    Last edited by beanman12345; 2021-06-08 at 01:02 AM.

  13. #8253
    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    Biden didn't need to say their names, everyone knows who he's talking about. Also Explain how Biden can hurt his fundraising when his top donors are gas and oil, as I already stated. I'd love to hear how that is gonna go down.
    It's not a push back it's an implied one, it's weak and timid. When republicans put pressure on their members they call their names out, they go on TV you see Moscow Mitch, Kevin McCarthy and the Orange patoto publicly blasting them none of this gentle shit. Manchin still gets funding from the DNC and its resources (mailing list, contacts, etc) cut the fucker off. They can pretend he is a progressive they seem to have no problem leaving them stranded.

  14. #8254
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    It's not a push back it's an implied one, it's weak and timid. When republicans put pressure on their members they call their names out, they go on TV you see Moscow Mitch, Kevin McCarthy and the Orange patoto publicly blasting them none of this gentle shit. Manchin still gets funding from the DNC and its resources (mailing list, contacts, etc) cut the fucker off. They can pretend he is a progressive they seem to have no problem leaving them stranded.
    They have to walk a bit of a tightrope, sadly. I'd love for them to go after him hard, but they can't risk him flipping parties and losing the "majority" that they currently have.

    Republicans internal civil war is fine, I'd rather Democrats not start their own. I've been quite pleased to see how the progressive/liberal wings have made peace/reached a détente and we're not seeing the predicted internal bloodbath. It's bad for the party and any goals they may want to accomplish. Hopefully they win a few more seats in 2022 and get a few more non-centrists in there so they can run around Manchin and leave him begging for attention again.

  15. #8255
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    They have to walk a bit of a tightrope, sadly. I'd love for them to go after him hard, but they can't risk him flipping parties and losing the "majority" that they currently have.

    Republicans internal civil war is fine, I'd rather Democrats not start their own. I've been quite pleased to see how the progressive/liberal wings have made peace/reached a détente and we're not seeing the predicted internal bloodbath. It's bad for the party and any goals they may want to accomplish. Hopefully they win a few more seats in 2022 and get a few more non-centrists in there so they can run around Manchin and leave him begging for attention again.
    This is for all the marbles a majority is meaningless if you can't hold on to power and get things done. If this voting bill doesn't pass republicans will control both houses for the next 20 years, forget about internal blood bath there is a literal blood bath coming in 2022. And I don't even want to think about 2024 these fuckers have the power to throw out votes they don't like.

  16. #8256
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    This is for all the marbles a majority is meaningless if you can't hold on to power and get things done. If this voting bill doesn't pass republicans will control both houses for the next 20 years, forget about internal blood bath there is a literal blood bath coming in 2022. And I don't even want to think about 2024 these fuckers have the power to throw out votes they don't like.
    You are right, this is for all the marbles, you think if dem's had something they'd use it. Which means, they don't want to keep power, and let's be real, both parties are power hungry and want the power, or they got nothing to use on him that will work.

    Citizens United.

  17. #8257
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    This is for all the marbles a majority is meaningless if you can't hold on to power and get things done. If this voting bill doesn't pass republicans will control both houses for the next 20 years, forget about internal blood bath there is a literal blood bath coming in 2022. And I don't even want to think about 2024 these fuckers have the power to throw out votes they don't like.
    Ok so what's the better solution right now? Lean hard on Manchin until the piece of shit (who is at least a somewhat reliable vote on key issues) flips and the Democrats lose any chance of passing things even by reconciliation? How does that set them up to pass voting rights bill? Or accomplish anything else before the election? How does that position them better for 2022 or 2024 beyond then?

    I'd love to kick Manchin to the curb, never much liked him, but like it or not he's a wrench being thrown into the machinery and there appear to be no real "good" options, only varying levels of bad where the "least bad" option is preferable.

  18. #8258
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ok so what's the better solution right now? Lean hard on Manchin until the piece of shit (who is at least a somewhat reliable vote on key issues) flips and the Democrats lose any chance of passing things even by reconciliation? How does that set them up to pass voting rights bill? Or accomplish anything else before the election? How does that position them better for 2022 or 2024 beyond then?

    I'd love to kick Manchin to the curb, never much liked him, but like it or not he's a wrench being thrown into the machinery and there appear to be no real "good" options, only varying levels of bad where the "least bad" option is preferable.
    What would Manchin going republican change? seriously he is against reconciliation too nothing is getting passed he doesn't want anymore of these maneuvers either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beanman12345 View Post
    You are right, this is for all the marbles, you think if dem's had something they'd use it. Which means, they don't want to keep power, and let's be real, both parties are power hungry and want the power, or they got nothing to use on him that will work.

    Citizens United.
    Democrats have never been good at yielding power look at the complete and utter disaster which was the first 2 years of Obama. Republican shoved their tax bill through in what 2 weeks? democrats took almost a year to pass the ACA. They have always sucked monkey balls at this and it frustrates their base which why many of us throw our hands up.

  19. #8259
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ok so what's the better solution right now? Lean hard on Manchin until the piece of shit (who is at least a somewhat reliable vote on key issues) flips and the Democrats lose any chance of passing things even by reconciliation? How does that set them up to pass voting rights bill? Or accomplish anything else before the election? How does that position them better for 2022 or 2024 beyond then?

    I'd love to kick Manchin to the curb, never much liked him, but like it or not he's a wrench being thrown into the machinery and there appear to be no real "good" options, only varying levels of bad where the "least bad" option is preferable.
    Exactly, the kick manchin, cut off his DNC funding doesn't work, because guess what, he get's picked up by RNC, continues to get funding, and remains the corrupt fuck he's become since becoming a senator. Hell maybe he was corrupt before senate but know little about him before his senate run in 2010.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    What would Manchin going republican change? seriously he is against reconciliation too nothing is getting passed he doesn't want anymore of these maneuvers either.

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    Democrats have never been good at yielding power look at the complete and utter disaster which was the first 2 years of Obama. Republican shoved their tax bill through in what 2 weeks? democrats took almost a year to pass the ACA. They have always sucked monkey balls at this and it frustrates their base which why many of us throw our hands up.
    You know what fucked Obama? It wasn't dem's being weak, it was Ted Kennedy dying. That fucked them right up.

  20. #8260
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I mean contrast this with Liz Cheney who had the entire establishment dog pile on her.
    WY is not a blue state. Is that enough of a contrast to get the point across?
    Quote Originally Posted by Rudol Von Stroheim View Post
    I do not need to play the role of "holier than thou". I'm above that..

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