Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Elenos]

Joe Manchin Signals Support For Passing Biden Jobs Plan With Reconciliation. Supports Democrats passing infrastructure alone now.

Summer of CTC checks and Infrastructure!

This was always a likely outcome.

Unlike progressives people like Manchin, Sinema and Biden fully understand that passing things on a pure party line level requires to show voters that you at least tried in a genuine way to work with the opposite side.

Republicans want only 600 billion, it would be decent but frankly not enough. Democrats want over 2 trillion.

Sure there will be hand wringing over inflation and other metrics, though truth to be told we were ALWAYS going to have inflation regardless of economic policy ( what did people think the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression was just going to vanish? ).

[Themius]

This was always a likely outcome.

Unlike progressives people like Manchin, Sinema and Biden fully understand that passing things on a pure party line level requires to show voters that you at least tried in a genuine way to work with the opposite side.

Republicans want only 600 billion, it would be decent but frankly not enough. Democrats want over 2 trillion.

Sure there will be hand wringing over inflation and other metrics, though truth to be told we were ALWAYS going to have inflation regardless of economic policy ( what did people think the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression was just going to vanish? ).

Uh... no.. democrats do not care about that... in fact this shit has majority support from both democrats and republicans all it does is frustrate democrats and gives republicans an argument to say democrats can't do anything.

[Elenos]

Uh... no.. democrats do not care about that... in fact this shit has majority support from both democrats and republicans all it does is frustrate democrats and gives republicans an argument to say democrats can't do anything.

EDIT:

Yeah polling numbers, fun fact: Polls showing people support X don't really much matter as much as some might think they do. If there was such an overwhelming public support for something Republicans would be forced to pass it. The fact they they feel confident they can refuse to and come out on top ( as in win back majorities in Congress ) is an indication of actual political realities in the US.

As for this whole concept that Republicans want to say Democrats won't do anything. Yeah nice theory, coming from places like Politico and the Hill and it may very well indicate what people like McConnell are thinking.

But it is not, crucially, the only thing that matters. McConnell ALSO wants to portray Democrats as being driven by a pure partisan agenda. That's why he allowed his people to negotiate an infrastructure plan of 600 billion in new funding, which of course isn't good enough for Biden.

So likely outcome is Democrats pass infrastructure with a pure party line vote, Republicans attack them for their "far left agenda" and for refusing to negotiate in good faith, Democrats spend the next year arguing they tried to negotiate in good faith but didn't get a good enough offer and then the mid-terms happen.

Mid-terms that the Democrats will likely lose regardless. Democrats barely gained a majority by running against the Donald Trump, a.k.a Hitler reborn. It will take a hell of a political change for them to win now that Trump is gone and well quiet.

[Themius]

EDIT:

Yeah polling numbers, fun fact: Polls showing people support X don't really much matter as much as some might think they do. If there was such an overwhelming public support for something Republicans would be forced to pass it. The fact they they feel confident they can refuse to and come out on top ( as in win back majorities in Congress ) is an indication of actual political realities in the US.

As for this whole concept that Republicans want to say Democrats won't do anything. Yeah nice theory, coming from places like Politico and the Hill and it may very well indicate what people like McConnell are thinking.

But it is not, crucially, the only thing that matters. McConnell for instance ALSO wants to portray Democrats as being driven by a pure partisan agenda. That's why he allowed his people to negotiate an infrastructure plan of 600 billion in new funding.

There is overwhelming support what we lack... are informed voters and decent competitors.

This idea that you people have of how Manchin and Sinema secretly want to pass these things is fucking laughable when we have Manchin speaking to his billionaire donors saying to just throw him a bone so he can argue to keep the filibuster in place and even goes as far to say to essentially pay off a republican, which is corruption and illegal but hey I guess we'll just ignore that right?

[Themius]

This has to win some kind of "no shame" award.



On a random note:

It's ridiculous that anyone is that paid that... he should bang his table and say it is ridiculous that the minimum wage isn't the $15 he should have been a decade ago. But they back then... Obama didn't want to actually raise the minimum wage despite calls from the then Democrat controlled house.

[Elenos]

This idea that you people have of how Manchin and Sinema secretly want to pass these things is fucking laughable

If you care to quote precisely where I said that I'll eat my keyboard. What Manchin and Sinema care about is keeping their Senate seats and having power, that's my point.

Since you do bring it out by the way, their support for passing an infrastructure bill is public. How they pass it is different.

There is overwhelming support what we lack... are informed voters and decent competitors.

Oh yeah the usual thing when there isn't enough public support for X: Voters are idiots that vote against their self-interests spiel.

[PACOX]

It's ridiculous that anyone is that paid that... he should bang his table and say it is ridiculous that the minimum wage isn't the $15 he should have been a decade ago. But they back then... Obama didn't want to actually raise the minimum wage despite calls from the then Democrat controlled house.

Its ridiculous that anyone would that he doesn't know how government pay works. He would have to be grossly ignorant or admit he was wrong in the past. He had worked in the federal government longer than half the WH staff has been alive. He claims to know how middle class people operate. He has seen and heard people complain about wages, specifically fire fighters post 9/11, as a Senator, VP, and civilian. No way in hell he would be so socked at learning a FF's wage that he would bang on a table.


I think the story is pure BS made up by some PR person because they know there are people who eat these little 'facts' up. I would be no one on Biden's team even knew about it. If they did then people on the left are just as gullible as those on the right.

[Themius]

If you care to quote precisely where I said that I'll eat my keyboard. What Manchin and Sinema care about is keeping their Senate seats and having power, that's my point.

Since you do bring it out by the way, their support for passing an infrastructure bill is public. How they pass it is different.



Oh yeah the usual thing when there isn't enough public support for X: Voters are idiots that vote against their self-interests spiel.

When we literally have polling that shows republcaisn and democrats both agree with things yeah... the issue is that their reps don't which is an informed voter and competitor issue.

[Elenos]

When we literally have polling that shows republcaisn and democrats both agree with things yeah... the issue is that their reps don't which is an informed voter and competitor issue.

They don't. They do support parts of it: Roads, Bridges, Ports, Broadband, but not the other stuff like Healthcare, Pre-K, Electrical Charging stations etc.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/98744...hows-they-dont

Biden and other administration officials have made that case repeatedly, but it is hardly true. While a majority of American adults support his infrastructure proposal — 56% — including 9 in 10 Democrats and half of independents, Republicans overwhelmingly do not, according to the latest NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist survey

[Themius]

They don't. They do support parts of it: Roads, Bridges, Ports, Broadband, but not the other stuff like Healthcare, Pre-K, Electrical Charging stations etc.

https://www.npr.org/2021/04/15/98744...hows-they-dont

They don't support healthcare? I think numbers last year shows about 40% of republicans did and that's with all the weird misinformation on that side you have republicans that rally against Obamacare while support ACA.... they're clueless.

When it came to higher minimum wages in Manchin's state specifically it had majority support among both sides.

- - - Updated - - -

Unfortunate:

On Monday, a federal judge dismissed lawsuits alleging former president Donald Trump directed police to violate the constitutional rights of peaceful protesters who, along with media members, were violently attacked in Lafayette Square on June 1, 2020.

The lawsuits filed by the American Civil Liberties Union, the Black Lives Matter movement and other plaintiffs argued that Trump, former Attorney General William Barr and others in police and federal agencies violated the First Amendment rights of protesters. The Trump administration, they charged, conspired to use violent force to remove protesters from Lafayette Square in Washington D.C. prior to a 7 p.m. curfew so that Trump could pass through for a photo-op in front of St. John’s Episcopal church.

The Biden administration sided with the former Trump officials, arguing that the case should be thrown out.

In her 51-page ruling, Judge Dabney Friedrich of the US District Court for the District of Columbia dismissed the plaintiffs’ claims. She wrote that without actual recordings or written statements demonstrating unequivocally that a conspiracy was planned and carried out by the defendants, it was “simply too speculative” for the court to rule if the police state assault against peaceful protesters was justified. Friedrich also ruled that the federal officials, such as Barr and Trump, are immune from any civil litigation.

In ruling on the “speculative” nature of the claims of the plaintiffs, Friedrich wrote: “At this preliminary stage, without a factual record, the Court’s rulings are based solely on the allegations in the complaints. Before either party has had an opportunity for discovery, it would be premature for the Court to draw any conclusions about why Lafayette Square was cleared on June 1 or whether the law enforcement officers’ actions were justified.”

Friedrich claimed that there were “obvious alternative explanation[s]” for why Lafayette Square was cleared by police, including possible violence from demonstrators. As a result, she ruled, the lawsuits could not proceed.

In response to the ruling, Scott Michelman, legal director of the ACLU of the District of Columbia, stated: “Today’s ruling essentially gives the federal government a green light to use violence, including lethal force against demonstrators, as long as federal officials claim to be protecting national security.”

Friedrich is no neutral arbiter. She served for three years as associate counsel for the George W. Bush administration, during which time she put forward the position that the government has a “clear” right to detain American citizens as enemy combatants. She also described the conditions for detainees in the “war on terror” as “among the best ever provided by a country to individuals who have taken up arms against it.” She was appointed to the Sentencing Commission by President Obama and then nominated to a position on the DC District Court by Trump in 2017.

[Kaleredar]

When we literally have polling that shows republcaisn and democrats both agree with things yeah... the issue is that their reps don't which is an informed voter and competitor issue.

You continue to make the errant mistake of thinking that republican voters drive the Republican agenda, at least as far as actual policy is concerned.

It’s entirely the other way around.

Republican congressmen do what they want, and then republican voters support them because the republicans congressmen aren’t the evil democrats.

[AntiFascistVoter]

You continue to make the errant mistake of thinking that republican voters drive the Republican agenda, at least as far as actual policy is concerned.

It’s entirely the other way around.

Republican congressmen do what they want, and then republican voters support them because the republicans congressmen aren’t the evil democrats.

Or thinking the polls show us "these self evident truths of what the people want". Yet these polls never ask, "Will you share these cool benefits with immigrants and other dark skinned people?"

It’s just absurdly obvious everywhere you look that they’re not Republicans because Democrats won’t make a new TVA, they’re Republicans because it’s a key aspect of their identity. Being an American, a Christian and a Republican are one in the same.

[Themius]

You continue to make the errant mistake of thinking that republican voters drive the Republican agenda, at least as far as actual policy is concerned.

It’s entirely the other way around.

Republican congressmen do what they want, and then republican voters support them because the republicans congressmen aren’t the evil democrats.

Republican congressmen do whatever they want (regardless of voters) and republican voters support them due to a mix of "dems evil" and being entirely clueless on issues. EG: "I hate obamacare. I love the ACA"

The Republican agenda is driven by voters since they actually need the votes, even with suppression and a myriad of other tricks... they still need votes. What they do is what all parties of their type of done. Create an evil boogie man then watch as the party votes against the otherside because of identity politics.

Republican pollsters do their own polls and they see the support and then go and speak with other lawmakers deciding how they can propagandise the issue to get their voters on board with their talking points.

Literally just recently a key strategy for republicans was to name everything as CRT and then attack CRT even if it wasn't attached to a particular issue. The point was to drum up a visceral feeling in their base to get them to vote for them, which was admitted literally over Twitter by some republican strategist.

The issue is with informed voters firstly not understand things because they're too busy on the hate train to look at issues... and then the next issue are lack of viable competitors for some of those areas.

[downnola]

You continue to make the errant mistake of thinking that republican voters drive the Republican agenda, at least as far as actual policy is concerned.

It’s entirely the other way around.

Republican congressmen do what they want, and then republican voters support them because the republicans congressmen aren’t the evil democrats.

This applies only to Trump. Every other Republican is entirely captured by their base and they have to bark with the pack or get primaried. Trump is really the only one who can act without consequences due to his cult of personality.

[Themius]

Or thinking the polls show us "these self evident truths of what the people want". Yet these polls never ask, "Will you share these cool benefits with immigrants and other dark skinned people?"

It’s just absurdly obvious everywhere you look that they’re not Republicans because Democrats won’t make a new TVA, they’re Republicans because it’s a key aspect of their identity. Being an American, a Christian and a Republican are one in the same.

Which doesn't negate my argument in the least.... take the $15 min wage which was supported by a majority in WV, a majority of republican voters and a majority of democrats.

Manchin's argument was that he didn't want the $15/hr because of "blah blah" and the media ran with "Manchin is in a tough spot he has to play to the right he's super smart and he has to advocate for his constituents who come from all sides of the spectrum"

Which is total bullshit considering that had support across both parties. and that issue was that singular issue being voted on, not tied to several other things like some of the others which you're using as an exmaple.

So saying.

"Yeah they want that provision A but they don't want B C D"

What have you to say when it is actually "Yeah they want provision A and their senator voted down A"

[Zan15]

So now that the "VP did not visit the boarder" fake outrage will be over soon what next thing will they move on too to be so insanely outraged about? Before this it was Biden not having a full press conference. I can't even begin to guess.

[beanman12345]

So now that the "VP did not visit the boarder" fake outrage will be over soon what next thing will they move on too to be so insanely outraged about? Before this it was Biden not having a full press conference. I can't even begin to guess.

I'll give a guess for the next "scandal." There will be a wrinkle in something one of the two are wearing, and they will cry how dry cleaners are being cancelled and are oppressed.

[AntiFascistVoter]

So now that the "VP did not visit the boarder" fake outrage will be over soon what next thing will they move on too to be so insanely outraged about? Before this it was Biden not having a full press conference. I can't even begin to guess.

Biden's plan to use better IRS enforcement to fund the transportation bill.
I'm expecting a whole slew of angry takes from:

• Online pundits that make $20k/month
• Fans of online pundits, who think "they're really not that rich"
• Pundits who have very complex relationships with their millionaire parents about how the IRS is bad actually and only goes after poor people

Thinking of ways to fund shit.. makes anyone into a Liz Warren.

[jonnysensible]

inb4mcafeeconspiracies


Infracted.

[Zan15]

inb4mcafeeconspiracies

too late, they say he was killed because he had information on the hacked election