1. #8761
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Again, not in support of those bases (which don't sound like they're newly constructed official compounds, but I haven't read too deeply on it), but if US personnel are there they should be protected from attack.

    A discussion on the wisdom of our ongoing foreign policy and military actions in the region would be a very different one, and I imagine you and I have extremely similar views outside of, "If US troops are there, they should be protected, even if we don't like that they're there."
    Then those soldiers should have made the choice to not go to those countries. Not my problem if they die because they wanted to play world police so badly.

    Innocent civilians still get killed because of those strikes, I have no sympathy for those who are the cause of them.
    But yeah, if you invade a country it turns out that the local militias will attack you, who knew.
    Last edited by JohnBrown1917; 2021-06-29 at 12:09 AM.

  2. #8762
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Then those soldiers should have made the choice to not go to those countries. Not my problem if they die because they wanted to play world police so badly.
    You act like they had a choice in the matter. Also like they deserved to get attacked because of where they were deployed.

  3. #8763
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    You act like they had a choice in the matter. Also like they deserved to get attacked because of where they were deployed.
    They made a choice to join the military knowing they could be deployed in those countries, yes.
    They are part of an invading force, why is it so strange they would be attacked for it?

  4. #8764
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theodarzna View Post
    Why is one American soldier in a country that never invited us?

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    Why is there a US Military installation in a country that never invited the United States into its borders?
    Protecting Iraq.

  5. #8765
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Protecting Iraq.
    Occupying Iraq you mean? Because last time I checked, the US caused the deaths of over a million of them.

  6. #8766
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Oh yea non American lives don't count how lovely, hundreds of thousands of people died and you just hand waived their bodies. You haven't answered the question, 20 years 2 trillion dollars, How many more years and trillions in your opinion would have been enough to win? you called the US a country of wimps because Biden pulled out, feel free to tell us how long we should have waited and how 2 trillion dollars was too cheap.
    To most Americans, no they do not matter much when it comes to supporting a war. Sorry. Moot point, the US would not be willing to rebuild Afghanistan to the point it would need to be. We should have done it 20 years ago. You don't win insurgencies by force alone.
    I never said anything about our withdrawal being because we are wimps, I said we have to keep casualties low because we are. We kept them very low in Afghanistan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Occupying Iraq you mean? Because last time I checked, the US caused the deaths of over a million of them.
    So US forces in West Germany were occupying it until 1990?

  7. #8767
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    To most Americans, no they do not matter much when it comes to supporting a war. Sorry. Moot point, the US would not be willing to rebuild Afghanistan to the point it would need to be. We should have done it 20 years ago. You don't win insurgencies by force alone.
    I never said anything about our withdrawal being because we are wimps, I said we have to keep casualties low because we are. We kept them very low in Afghanistan.
    This runs counter to your premise that the only reason we don't win wars is because of money and that we don't have the stomach for it. So which encounter did you think we should have put more money and time in order to win? because when I gave you a live case you contradicted yourself.

  8. #8768
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    They are part of an invading force, why is it so strange they would be attacked for it?
    Strange? No. As you say, they joined the military, that's the risk they take. But victim blaming and saying they deserve it is just disgusting, as is the concept that we somehow shouldn't retaliate.

  9. #8769
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    This runs counter to your premise that the only reason we don't win wars is because of money and that we don't have the stomach for it. So which encounter did you think we should have put more money and time in order to win? because when I gave you a live case you contradicted yourself.
    You win wars by destroying nation states' ability to function as a cohesive opposition followed by removing the levers that insurgents can use to manipulate the population into supporting their fight. We are great at the first part, we suck at the second part post WWII. We do not like the idea of "nation building" to the extent needed. We do not have the stomach for high casualties. And to answer which wars we should have spent more money on: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq.

  10. #8770
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post

    So US forces in West Germany were occupying it until 1990?
    I know you drank the fucking coolaid, but nobody who has been alive in the past 20 fucking years can claim with a straight face that there's any kind of parallel or equivalency that can be drawn between the US presence in Germany and the US presence in Iraq.

    You could possibly, if you sort of glance at it from an angle, draw some sort of equivalency between Germany and Afghanistan, but there's none for Iraq.

    Iraq has been possibly the greatest moral/ethical/political failure of the United States since the Banana Wars.

    Claiming the US presence in Iraq is somehow to the benefit of Iraq is akin to saying the US Army was at Wounded Knee to protect the Lakota. It's that... Just on a worse scale.

    Of course that doesn't mean anyone in his right mind should gloat about US troops being in harms way or suffering losses, but nor is there any point of glorifying their presence there. Those troops are victims of a morally bankrupt blunder just as much as the locals. They are all victims of asinine opinions like the one you just exhibited.

  11. #8771
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihalik View Post
    I know you drank the fucking coolaid, but nobody who has been alive in the past 20 fucking years can claim with a straight face that there's any kind of parallel or equivalency that can be drawn between the US presence in Germany and the US presence in Iraq.

    You could possibly, if you sort of glance at it from an angle, draw some sort of equivalency between Germany and Afghanistan, but there's none for Iraq.

    Iraq has been possibly the greatest moral/ethical/political failure of the United States since the Banana Wars.

    Claiming the US presence in Iraq is somehow to the benefit of Iraq is akin to saying the US Army was at Wounded Knee to protect the Lakota. It's that... Just on a worse scale.

    Of course that doesn't mean anyone in his right mind should gloat about US troops being in harms way or suffering losses, but nor is there any point of glorifying their presence there. Those troops are victims of a morally bankrupt blunder just as much as the locals. They are all victims of asinine opinions like the one you just exhibited.
    The Iraqi Army is larger than the US military presence, the Iraqi government makes their own decisions. We are hardly occupying them any longer.

    Oh there is no doubt we screwed the occupation of Iraq up. I knew we would before we even invaded.

  12. #8772
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrown1917 View Post
    Occupying Iraq you mean? Because last time I checked, the US caused the deaths of over a million of them.
    it's amazing to see this take even after the most ardent Iraq invasion cheer leaders came away saying it was a giant mistake.

  13. #8773
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    it's amazing to see this take even after the most ardent Iraq invasion cheer leaders came away saying it was a giant mistake.
    See above. I never though the occupation was going to be a success. I understand why we invaded, and I agree with the geopolitical reasons.

  14. #8774
    In February Gosar attended “a white nationalist convention” per the Daily Beast https://t.co/YQIMXGncxB
    https://twitter.com/jaketapper/statu...092415490?s=19

    This is the Arizona Congressman m, whose whole family despises him. He also has stated controversial and stupid remarks in the past.

    So the Republicans know their base; white nationalist, supremacists and fascists. The Republican Party is the party of fascism.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  15. #8775
    Herald of the Titans tehdang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    https://twitter.com/jaketapper/statu...092415490?s=19

    This is the Arizona Congressman m, whose whole family despises him. He also has stated controversial and stupid remarks in the past.

    So the Republicans know their base; white nationalist, supremacists and fascists. The Republican Party is the party of fascism.
    I read the story and didn't see any relevance to Biden/Harris. Are they also implicated?
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  16. #8776
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    You win wars by destroying nation states' ability to function as a cohesive opposition followed by removing the levers that insurgents can use to manipulate the population into supporting their fight. We are great at the first part, we suck at the second part post WWII. We do not like the idea of "nation building" to the extent needed. We do not have the stomach for high casualties. And to answer which wars we should have spent more money on: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq.
    Your entire logic is rather insane you think a combined 4.5 trillion dollars in these conflicts was not enough yet spending that money on health care or infrastructure is too much for you. You must be a military contractor because American people got nothing out of these wars they were all terrible mistakes or based on lies. You are basically advocating to spend money in a strip club while your children are starving.

  17. #8777
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    Strange? No. As you say, they joined the military, that's the risk they take. But victim blaming and saying they deserve it is just disgusting, as is the concept that we somehow shouldn't retaliate.
    If you kill even more innocent people in the progress they are only making it even worse.
    My point is that I have zero sympathy if they killed for invading another country.


    How is it victim blaming? they are not the victims, they make them by invading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post

    So US forces in West Germany were occupying it until 1990?
    Germany was a country that declared war on the US, a very different situation.


    But I agree that US bases have no place in Europe, but its hardly the same as what they are doing by invading Iraq.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    See above. I never though the occupation was going to be a success. I understand why we invaded, and I agree with the geopolitical reasons.
    So killing millions for a bit of oil and power in the region?

  18. #8778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    So US forces in West Germany were occupying it until 1990?
    Yes, along with UK and France, even if I believe their troops left far earlier.
    Same as the US occupied Japan after WWII.

    And was the colonial overlord of the Phillipines, and still are of Guam, American Samoa, and Peurto Rico.
    - Lars

  19. #8779
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I agree with the geopolitical reasons.
    and that's the problem, right here, you seem to think it was worth it at any point at any time.

  20. #8780
    Its funny watching these MAGAts bumble over trying to make a thing out of Biden and Harris going to florida, when they attacked them for months for not going to the boarder.

    they are all over the place since the standard talking points have not converged yet on AM radio and fox

    guess its the new outrage they have
    Buh Byeeeeeeeeeeee !!

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