1. #9081
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Ayep, another strawman.
    Not a strawman at all. You should look up the definition.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  2. #9082
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Without voter protections the chances of holding onto the majority slips and then due to losing the majority the chances to implement protections basically goes to nil... and being it was SCOTUS under Obama... which was less conservative to strike it down.... the chances of it passing SCOTUS now... are also essentially nil.
    Ok, so what's the fix here? What's the solution? That's what I keep getting at, how are y'all gonna get Manchin/Sinema on board? Everyone would love it they were, but the problem is there's nothing anyone has figured out that will get them to move right now, so we're kinda stuck on this subject.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Not a strawman at all. You should look up the definition.
    It is though, because you claim we're "creaming our jeans" when literally nobody has been doing this since after the election when most of us spent months talking about how little power the current "majority" would give Democrats and how challenging getting some of their more ambitious (in the current political climate) legislation would be to get through the Senate.

  3. #9083
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Compared to the alternative of a Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConell right now? RIP the American Rescue Plan and any judicial nominations. I guess literally nothing is somehow better than a little bit of something?



    Ok, so how does having a Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell make this any less bad?
    $1600 vs. the end of the republic. Whoopie fucking do.

    Democrats get complacent quickly and easily. You are literally showing that by trying to sell this limp majority as something important in the long run. That complacency will play right into McConnell's hands come 2022. Instead of keeping Dems mad and scared, you are helping sell that we should be happy with the meager bullshit we got. I bet McConnell is really upset about that......


    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    It means something, just not as much as all of us hope for. That's why some of us are working to try to make sure Democrats pick up a seat or two so they have more leeway to actually make progress on some of these fronts between 2022-24.

    But I guess the preferred solution is to just...what, throw our hands up in the air, complain this is all unfair, and do nothing with what little power Democrats have now?
    Would you fucking stop with, "i guess the solution is....bullshit."? You are adding tot he problem by selling the bright side of a mostly shitty situation. We need to stay hungry.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  4. #9084
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    $1600 vs. the end of the republic. Whoopie fucking do.
    I cannot understand how you make this connection. 2022 would be the same with Democrats in their current razor thin majority or with a Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConell, so at least Democrats can get something out of these two years.

    Also don't forget appointees and judicial nominees, which are extremely important. There's a reason that McConnell has spent most of his career trying to reshape the judiciary and calls his biggest wins victories with judicial nominees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Democrats get complacent quickly and easily. You are literally showing that by trying to sell this limp majority as something important in the long run.
    I am? Where? I'm selling it as important in the immediate as it's infinitely preferable to the alternative of a Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConell for the first two years of Bidens presidency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    That complacency will play right into McConnell's hands come 2022.
    Who is being complacent?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Instead of keeping Dems mad and scared, you are helping sell that we should be happy with the meager bullshit we got. I bet McConnell is really upset about that......
    You think fear of a Republican majority doesn't exist and isn't something that's being pushed? You think that anger at Republican bullshit and their attempts to steal the election doesn't exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodakane View Post
    Would you fucking stop with, "i guess the solution is....bullshit."? You are adding tot he problem by selling the bright side of a mostly shitty situation. We need to stay hungry.
    We are hungry...being thankful for small wins doesn't make you less hungry. The world isn't a binary dude, the way you post you seem to think it is and we can only have "HAPPY FEELINGS" or "ANGRY FEELINGS" and not complex mixtures of both.

  5. #9085
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ok, so what's the fix here? What's the solution? That's what I keep getting at, how are y'all gonna get Manchin/Sinema on board? Everyone would love it they were, but the problem is there's nothing anyone has figured out that will get them to move right now, so we're kinda stuck on this subject.



    It is though, because you claim we're "creaming our jeans" when literally nobody has been doing this since after the election when most of us spent months talking about how little power the current "majority" would give Democrats and how challenging getting some of their more ambitious (in the current political climate) legislation would be to get through the Senate.
    Yes you were. Go back a few pages to my first post on this. Also, the specific line that he quoted was not a straw man.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  6. #9086
    The Undying Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ok, so what's the fix here? What's the solution? That's what I keep getting at, how are y'all gonna get Manchin/Sinema on board? Everyone would love it they were, but the problem is there's nothing anyone has figured out that will get them to move right now, so we're kinda stuck on this subject.



    It is though, because you claim we're "creaming our jeans" when literally nobody has been doing this since after the election when most of us spent months talking about how little power the current "majority" would give Democrats and how challenging getting some of their more ambitious (in the current political climate) legislation would be to get through the Senate.
    The fix? Since it seems losing the majority is seeming more likely than not... what have we to lose by pressuring them? At best you'd hope to replace them down the line or "maybe" change their stance.

    Do you think there will be as much enthusiasm for democrats when some major things like higher wages or voting rights can't pass because of two democrats? It isn't like Republicans are blocking this... democrats are... Democrats under a democrat majority with a trifecta.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black people in america should be happy their ancestors where slaves so they could have a good live.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodonius View Post
    Black women are racist. Im the one trying to make her[my wife] behave like white people and not say it out loud.
    Totally not racist

  7. #9087
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I cannot understand how you make this connection. 2022 would be the same with Democrats in their current razor thin majority or with a Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConell, so at least Democrats can get something out of these two years..
    I walk out of the doctor after he tells me I have pancreatic cancer. You're telling me, "hey be happy you don't have the flu too."

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Also don't forget appointees and judicial nominees, which are extremely important. There's a reason that McConnell has spent most of his career trying to reshape the judiciary and calls his biggest wins victories with judicial nominees..
    I didn't forget it. I addressed it earlier and you and few others started in on me for not being impressed that we will get a couple of nominations which will pale in comparison to what Mitch did, then lose it all in two years when they cheat extra hard and steal the Senate back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I am? Where? I'm selling it as important in the immediate as it's infinitely preferable to the alternative of a Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConell for the first two years of Bidens presidency.
    Its not important in the immediate. Literally nothing is more important right now than protecting voters, otherwise its all over in 2 years.


    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Who is being complacent?
    You are. All I did was point out that the ineffectual majority means little and you've been desperately trying to get me to think anything other than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You think fear of a Republican majority doesn't exist and isn't something that's being pushed? You think that anger at Republican bullshit and their attempts to steal the election doesn't exist?
    I don't think it will in 2022, no. I think that will be because democrats get complacent and that ALWAYS starts with nonsense like talking about how this tiny little victory is totes great!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    We are hungry...being thankful for small wins doesn't make you less hungry. The world isn't a binary dude, the way you post you seem to think it is and we can only have "HAPPY FEELINGS" or "ANGRY FEELINGS" and not complex mixtures of both.
    No we aren't. Hungry would have had a different outcome. Trump isn't going to be held to the fire. Barr isn't going to be held to the fire. Voting rights have already been successfully assaulted. The filibuster isn't even going back to having to actually talk to work. The SC is already gone. And in spite of all this, you've been arguing with me for hours because I don't think what (even you admit) is a tiny win, is all that big of deal. Hungry? Not even peckish.
    Last edited by Bodakane; 2021-06-15 at 01:39 AM.
    "When Facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross." - Unknown

  8. #9088
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    The fix? Since it seems losing the majority is seeming more likely than not... what have we to lose by pressuring them? At best you'd hope to replace them down the line or "maybe" change their stance.

    Do you think there will be as much enthusiasm for democrats when some major things like higher wages or voting rights can't pass because of two democrats? It isn't like Republicans are blocking this... democrats are... Democrats under a democrat majority with a trifecta.
    Except the 50 that are right?

  9. #9089
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    We are hungry...being thankful for small wins doesn't make you less hungry. The world isn't a binary dude, the way you post you seem to think it is and we can only have "HAPPY FEELINGS" or "ANGRY FEELINGS" and not complex mixtures of both.
    Election celebrations are over. It's time to get to work. When do Dems stop celebrating a small victory and when does the party start getting work done and looking to the future? The GOP certainly has. Munchausen and Cinnamon aren't reliable or sustainable options. They will let the party get rolled if their asses aren't kissed gently enough.

    Why it's an issue when it is made apparent that alternatives to those two need to be be explored is beyond me but a disease that festers within party. Complacency and zero foresight while the GOP is strategically the chance of losing through the democratic process in several states. Meanwhile Munchie Cosignema are holding the filibuster while McConnell isn't even trying to hide his excitement.


    The next mainstream GOP talking point is "Democrats don't want to get rid of the filibuster, they can feign outrage, unable to pass the simplest legislation. Meanwhile we have legislation to increase election security in several states after they stole the election. The stole the elections and got nothing done, vote them out, America! "


    I will stop criticizing Manchin if liberals start being honest and say Manchin represents their views.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2021-06-15 at 01:43 AM.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  10. #9090
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Ok, so what's the fix here? What's the solution? That's what I keep getting at, how are y'all gonna get Manchin/Sinema on board? Everyone would love it they were, but the problem is there's nothing anyone has figured out that will get them to move right now, so we're kinda stuck on this subject.
    There is always the nuclear option and use executive power, Trump greatly expanded executive power to the nth degree. Of course if would be stricken down by the right wing supreme court but you could tie it up so that these laws would be stuck in limbo and unimplemented for a while. However I do not see Biden having the balls to do something like that.

  11. #9091
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    There is always the nuclear option
    That's nixing the filibuster, which Manchin and Sinema won't vote for. It's not an option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    and use executive power
    To do what? What would it allow Biden to do to alter the makeup of the Senate or how they pass legislation? Because my understanding of our Constitution and the separation of power is that he has no real power here.

  12. #9092
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    To do what? What would it allow Biden to do to alter the makeup of the Senate or how they pass legislation? Because my understanding of our Constitution and the separation of power is that he has no real power here.
    No attack the law itself bypassing congress, Trump did it all the time it got struck down but the point is to buy time. Have you learned nothing from the 4 years of Trump? we can't win against these guys playing by the rules it's how we got to this point in the first place. The democrats need to adopt the Machiavellian approach power at all cost.

  13. #9093
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    No attack the law itself bypassing congress, Trump did it all the time it got struck down but the point is to buy time. Have you learned nothing from the 4 years of Trump? we can't win against these guys playing by the rules it's how we got to this point in the first place. The democrats need to adopt the Machiavellian approach power at all cost.
    So if you can't beat hem, join them? No thanks.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  14. #9094
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Election celebrations are over.
    Nah, I still get banned about 1/2 dozen times a day shitting all over poster's on right wing shitrag sites comment sections, celebrating their loss. It never get's old.

  15. #9095
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    So if you can't beat hem, join them? No thanks.
    Moral high grounds are worthless if you lose and cannot get anything moving forward, this isn't some movie where the good guys win by doing the right thing.

  16. #9096
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Moral high grounds are worthless if you lose and cannot get anything moving forward, this isn't some movie where the good guys win by doing the right thing.
    I'm not saying it is, but becoming them isn't winning either. It's just added more of the same shit.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  17. #9097
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    I was banned as usual because people do not like truth. Polls are fun. You assume because I voted in a poll AGAINST Joe Biden that i support Trump. The denizens here posted day after exhausting day how much they hate Trump and would vote for anyone who ran against him. Day after day saying voting for people they do not support. But if I do it, it's proof that I support someone. Thanks for proving you could find nothing. Again.

  18. #9098
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    I'm not saying it is, but becoming them isn't winning either. It's just added more of the same shit.
    Look at the reality republicans have not won an election in decades yet they have equal or more chances at power. Even when they lose badly like in 2018 they have bended the rules so much that it doesn't have the impact it should. It is pretty obvious taking the high ground and playing by the rules hasn't worked.

  19. #9099
    The Unstoppable Force Orange Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Look at the reality republicans have not won an election in decades yet they have equal or more chances at power. Even when they lose badly like in 2018 they have bended the rules so much that it doesn't have the impact it should. It is pretty obvious taking the high ground and playing by the rules hasn't worked.

    I stick to the side that isn't corrupt. if Dems start going corrupt I'll start supporting another party.



    I'm fairly certain I wouldn't be alone in that line of thinking.
    I have a fan. Seems he was permabanned.
    Yo, don't mind my "street talk"

  20. #9100
    Quote Originally Posted by Orange Joe View Post
    I stick to the side that isn't corrupt. if Dems start going corrupt I'll start supporting another party.



    I'm fairly certain I wouldn't be alone in that line of thinking.
    What's corrupt about yielding power efficiently? the ends justify the means or would you rather take the high ground while they incinerate democracy?

    We either nip this in the bud now that we have the advantage or wait until republicans start winning even more elections presidential and senatorial using the power they now have to throw out votes without cause.

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