Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Rozz]

Calm down. There is no need to get personal.

[Mihalik]

You where the invading force, you had no fighting right to just start shooting up another nation because your overlords wanted more oil.


Good on you that you believe your own bullshit, but anybody who looks into it knows what damage the US did to Iraq. You did not save anybody, you caused death. Your no better than your average murderer.

The US or any of its allies for that matter never got any oil out of that misadventure. Thinking that that whole thing was in any way about oil is a fundamental misunderstanding of what that whole thing was.

While the Iraqi population suffered tremendously, the American population drew no benefit from it whatsoever.

It was an all around lose lose situation, for nearly everyone involved except a handful of defense contractors and their political lackeys.

Dropping the narrative that frames the average American soldier as some sort of conquistador out there pillaging and murdering would go a long way to dissuade further generations of Americans from buying into the whole patriotic bullshit they are being sold to convince them to sign up to these colonial undertakings.

With other words, grow up. Stop blaming the victims (the American soldiers and public were victims of that whole affair, to a lesser degree than the Iraqi population but nevertheless victims) and instead learn how to highlight the cost and futility of that affair.

Please, stop over simplifying shit.

[JohnBrown1917]

With other words, grow up. Stop blaming the victims (the American soldiers and public were victims of that whole affair, to a lesser degree than the Iraqi population but nevertheless victims) and instead learn how to highlight the cost and futility of that affair.

Please, stop over simplifying shit.

Nah, they want in by choice, if they have no regrets over this sort of shit shows enough about those sort of folk. Nobody fucking forced them.


Its hilarious how you got an anarchist flag in your avatar but you carry water for US soldiers who knew full well what they where doing and try to defend the war itself.

- - - Updated - - -

wait i thought you liked imperialist serial killers? weren't you wanking off to Qasem Soleimani in another thread?

Yeah, you still don't understand what having standards is like. Somehow opposing luring in foreign military leaders with diplomatic talks only to murde them and the innocent civilians around now mean you love whatever country they are from.

Sound logic.

[Mihalik]

Nah, they want in by choice, if they have no regrets over this sort of shit shows enough about those sort of folk. Nobody fucking forced them.

That's not how the military works.

First thing first that you're completely missing (in general you often miss things) is that the psychology of most people who sign up to the military is service oriented.

They have way more in common in their core psychology with your direct action community organizer or community volunteer than you would think.

Furthermore the military exploits this psychological predisposition through mechanisms that reinforce the notions of community.

The problem is not one rooted in the average volunteering soldier's psyche, but with the mechanisms they are manipulated by, before joining (patriotism, nationalism, hero worship) and after having joined (brotherhood, camaraderie, honor).

Again, you don't really understand much about anything, and just doing the edgy internet leftie routine while completely missing the point.

[Themius]

That's not how the military works.

First thing first that you're completely missing (in general you often miss things) is that the psychology of most people who sign up to the military is service oriented.

They have way more in common in their core psychology with your direct action community organizer or community volunteer than you would think.

Furthermore the military exploits this psychological predisposition through mechanisms that reinforce the notions of community.

The problem is not one rooted in the average volunteering soldier's psyche, but with the mechanisms they are manipulated by, before joining (patriotism, nationalism, hero worship) and after having joined (brotherhood, camaraderie, honor).

Again, you don't really understand much about anything, and just doing the edgy internet leftie routine while completely missing the point.

The attitude they have after the fact goes to show that the "victim" isn't mat... he went there did war stuff and says it was good we did it whereas many many many other soldiers do not like what America did which is why the Iraqi war is so unpopular... but Mat is not one of those.

Oil could have played a smaller part in Iraq than it has in other conflicts.. we know it very likely played a part when it came to some other issues like Libya for instance. A lot of people voluntarily joined after 9/11 to get revenge on Muslims... considering how we ended up going to war with a country that didn't do 9/11... but did have Muslims lends some credence to that line of thought.

If those people go there see everything we've done and then come back and say "yeah I'm cool with all of it." those are the people are deserve the tough critiques... like Mat.

[Kellhound]

I don't think you will find many people that would advocate for turning all these places into basically colonies of the US.

That is not what I have been saying. I get you have a limited understanding of matters like this, but still...

- - - Updated - - -

What exactly did you win when the moment you leave, it all goes back to the way it was before?

That is winning a battle, but losing the war.

The military won their battles, the politicians lost the war.

- - - Updated - - -

There are death squads that the CIA uses…that’s just public knowledge…

- - - Updated - - -



What did you "win" and why was the war "worth" it?

"We got rid of a leader we didn't like he killed people! So we replaced no leader and then killed more people than he did! Oh and then to rebuild the country we hired private companies from the west which starved the country of billions after we destroyed it!"

You lost your friends.. people lost several generations of family, they lost their entire country... your friends were over there fighting a shit war for the USA...

And tell me "why" were we there was it good? WAs it for 9/11? I mean this all started with 9/11 and we actually fuckingallied with the country behind it and help them commit warcrimes against Yemen, so I guess 9/11 was nothing then.

The only thing that needs to be shoved is your fucking "American Hero" mindset.

"We made it safer for the general public! Never mind the million or so dead." is a really dumb take...

The CIA is not part of the US military, their operators are not troops by definition. (Which is not a statement concerning the merit of your comment.)

Your simplistic "understanding" of the dynamics at play before the invasion of Iraq limits your ability to comprehend what the war was over, thus renders you unable to comment intelligently on whether the costs were worth it. (I will give you a hint though, the costs were not worth it because the politicians of both parties fucked it up.)

[Draco-Onis]

That is not what I have been saying. I get you have a limited understanding of matters like this, but still..

I understand your idea perfectly, oh it will be just like Germany or Japan. However I am talking about reality, those countries are not Germany or Japan. The national community would not be involved. We've never been able to nation build Solo, we are awful at getting the locals behind us due to our tactics and reputation. Last due to all above reasons the government we establish are corrupt and cannot stand without our guns.

Your hypotheses are based on wishful thinking and "faith".

[unfilteredJW]

That is not what I have been saying. I get you have a limited understanding of matters like this, but still...

- - - Updated - - -



The military won their battles, the politicians lost the war.

- - - Updated - - -



The CIA is not part of the US military, their operators are not troops by definition. (Which is not a statement concerning the merit of your comment.)

Your simplistic "understanding" of the dynamics at play before the invasion of Iraq limits your ability to comprehend what the war was over, thus renders you unable to comment intelligently on whether the costs were worth it. (I will give you a hint though, the costs were not worth it because the politicians of both parties fucked it up.)

Imagine being wrong as much as this poster is and being this smug about it.

[uuuhname]

Jesus Christ are we still arguing that going into Iraq was ever a good idea from the get go? like, not even the intelligence guys like that psycho Mike Flynn are out here saying we should have done it.

[Edge-]

https://thehill.com/regulation/court...-found-he-gave

Yo AG Garland, what the fuckin fuck, yo? Why are we not prosecuting a fake billionaire who fuckin lied to Congress on at least two occasions, under oath?

This is horse shit. Very non-plussed.

[Fugus]

https://thehill.com/regulation/court...-found-he-gave

Yo AG Garland, what the fuckin fuck, yo? Why are we not prosecuting a fake billionaire who fuckin lied to Congress on at least two occasions, under oath?

This is horse shit. Very non-plussed.

Like I have said before, Republicans have no brains when it comes to policy while the Democrats have no balls almost like they are paid to be weak.

[Elegiac]

https://thehill.com/regulation/court...-found-he-gave

Yo AG Garland, what the fuckin fuck, yo? Why are we not prosecuting a fake billionaire who fuckin lied to Congress on at least two occasions, under oath?

This is horse shit. Very non-plussed.

Just gonna say it: the justice system in this country is not equipped to do its job and should be treated as such.

We are effectively living in a lawless society wherein the qualifier for innocence is wealth or social standing.

[Endus]

https://thehill.com/regulation/court...-found-he-gave

Yo AG Garland, what the fuckin fuck, yo? Why are we not prosecuting a fake billionaire who fuckin lied to Congress on at least two occasions, under oath?

This is horse shit. Very non-plussed.

Rules for thee but not for mee, sayeth the people who bought your government wholesale decades back.

The entire American system is set up to benefit the wealthy at the expense of literally everyone else. Systemically, legally, etc. It's not an accident. Your political parties were sold to the highest bidders.

Yes, both of 'em. Often to the same damn bidders. Which is why they might vary wildly on some issues, but neither's willing to buck the absofuckingludicrous military-industrial complex. Can't pay for universal healthcare, need to buy hundreds more tanks the Army doesn't need or want because tank manufacturers need their bribes.

[Elegiac]

Rules for thee but not for mee, sayeth the people who bought your government wholesale decades back.

The entire American system is set up to benefit the wealthy at the expense of literally everyone else. Systemically, legally, etc. It's not an accident. Your political parties were sold to the highest bidders.

Yes, both of 'em. Often to the same damn bidders. Which is why they might vary wildly on some issues, but neither's willing to buck the absofuckingludicrous military-industrial complex. Can't pay for universal healthcare, need to buy hundreds more thanks the Army doesn't need or want because tank manufacturers need their bribes.

Inb4 "but we need to keep production lines opening just in case we go to war with Russia or China and need to ramp it up" or some War is Peace nonsense.

What an irony that the leader of the capitalist world is the prime example of why capitalism can suck big fat ones.

[Kathandira]

Just gonna say it: the justice system in this country is not equipped to do its job and should be treated as such.

We are effectively living in a lawless society wherein the qualifier for innocence is wealth or social standing.

Crazy, sounds like the communist B.S. that many conservatives keep saying is going to happen, but it happens mostly by the conservative side.

[Bodakane]

There is effectively no difference between these two statements:

1. The customer is always right.

and

2. If a person has money, they are never wrong.

If you want to know why we in America let the rich get away with everything, its because our system is set up for it and statement #1 is drilled into us as a mantra.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Crazy, sounds like the communist B.S. that many conservatives keep saying is going to happen, but it happens mostly by the conservative side.

That's what happens when you build your entire legal system on the notion "we don't want 'those folks' getting uppity around their betters, so we need to make sure they can't".

[Draco-Onis]

Like I have said before, Republicans have no brains when it comes to policy while the Democrats have no balls almost like they are paid to be weak.

It's pretty clear that democrats are going to be the same pathetic losers they always are when they are in power depressing their base. The democratic party aside from a few members are in the same pocket as the republicans.

[Ursus]

https://thehill.com/regulation/court...-found-he-gave

Yo AG Garland, what the fuckin fuck, yo? Why are we not prosecuting a fake billionaire who fuckin lied to Congress on at least two occasions, under oath?

This is horse shit. Very non-plussed.

Merrick Garland has made it very clear that he'll do the wrong thing if it'll fend off any accusations of him being partisan, particularly when it comes to going after Trump or his administration. Merrick Garland seems like he'd much rather be seen as a fool and a doormat instead of partisan.

[Elegiac]

Merrick Garland has made it very clear that he'll do the wrong thing if it'll fend off any accusations of him being partisan, particularly when it comes to going after Trump or his administration. Merrick Garland seems like he'd much rather be seen as a fool and a doormat instead of partisan.

I should hope someone is partisan when the alternative party is like... actual fascism.

Really starting to think the retirement age should be a legal mandate in government (i.e. you hit 65, you're out. Don't care how sharp you claim to be). Tired of all these old farts who don't understand shit has changed since they were kids.