Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Rasulis]

That is quite bad yeah. Are the vaccination rates low in the US or something?

We see similar high covid cases in the EU, but hospitalizations remain relatively low.

Nearly 40 percent of hospitalizations nationwide are concentrated in Florida, Georgia and Louisiana

US deep south + Texas are really messing up the hospitalization rate right now. The only blessing is that since the patients trend younger, mortality rate is still below the peak of the pandemic.

[Benggaul]

Biden announces an executive order setting a target of 50 percent electric vehicles by 2030
Good goal to have, but I'm not sure if that'll be doable in the US. 2030 isn't as far away as it sounds.

Pretty much the same reaction I had. It's a decent goal and should be doable, but given how much is being held up in the House and Senate because of obstructionist GOP and "centrist" Dems I'm not going to hold my breath--which we all might have to start doing because the air quality will be getting worse...

Of course part of the problem is having the infrastructure set up to support all of those electric vehicles and, well, we can't even seem to get infrastructure set up properly to support existing transport. Certainly not to pay for maintenance and rebuilding.

[Benggaul]

This was one of the main issues I was thinking about, especially with everything surrounding infrastructure recently.

I can also already imagine the pushback from those people that just have to have a fuel-guzzling, environment-destroying pick-up truck and how this is totally against their rights or something.

Not to mention oil lobbyists.

[PhaelixWW]

Biden announces an executive order setting a target of 50 percent electric vehicles by 2030
Good goal to have, but I'm not sure if that'll be doable in the US. 2030 isn't as far away as it sounds.

Keep in mind that this is 50% of new cars sold, not 50% of all cars on the road. That's much more doable. There are already a lot of hybrid models out there.

[DarkTZeratul]

Keep in mind that this is 50% of new cars sold, not 50% of all cars on the road. That's much more doable. There are already a lot of hybrid models out there.

So does each hybrid car count as 50% of an electric vehicle?

[PhaelixWW]

So does each hybrid car count as 50% of an electric vehicle?

Most major car manufacturers have invested in electric car technology if they're producing hybrid cars. The jump from hybrid to electric isn't as big as the jump from gas to hybrid, I'd imagine. I suppose I could be wrong in that assumption, of course.

Also, apparently, some definitions of "electric vehicles" include plug-in hybrids. Who knew.

Edit: Yeah, it looks like Biden's figure includes plug-in hybrids. The US is currently at around 3% of new cars sold being EVs, but Europe is up to 10% already. The market is already heading that direction, finally. Still going to be a challenge to hit 50% by 2030. But Biden also has a goal of zero emissions by 2050, which would pretty much mean going 100% new cars as EVs by around 2035, as older cars will remain on the road for a while.

Those goals may be near-impossible to achieve, but they're damn well worth shooting for.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

That is quite bad yeah. Are the vaccination rates low in the US or something?

We see similar high covid cases in the EU, but hospitalizations remain relatively low.

In the states where the case spikes are the worst? Yes, vaccination rates are low. Couple that with fucking asinine policies being implemented by state Governors like Greg Abbott, who banned all forms of mask mandates for any institution that receives state funding, and you wind up with the shitshow we're currently in. I don't know how many kids are going to have to die from COVID-19 before Abbott starts considering how bad this is going to look for him in his bid for re-election in 2022, but I guess he thinks dead children will be great campaign material...somehow.

Last I checked, Texas is only at 53% fully vaccinated amongst those eligible for vaccination. If we include those ineligible for vaccination that would put us below 50% of our total state population being vaccinated.

[Themius]

This was one of the main issues I was thinking about, especially with everything surrounding infrastructure recently.

I can also already imagine the pushback from those people that just have to have a fuel-guzzling, environment-destroying pick-up truck and how this is totally against their rights or something.

What the US needs to do is build out infrastrucutre... build out trains and busses. Get rid of the fucking mandatory zoning laws requiring at times 94% of all land being delegated to single-family houses...

Build some old style towns a la Riverdale Toronto, Bordentown, Hudson county NJ, much of Queens New York. Add some well protected bike lanes and we'd be well on our way to cutting out the ridiculous amount of driving that contributes to pollution.

[PACOX]

Keep in mind that this is 50% of new cars sold, not 50% of all cars on the road. That's much more doable. There are already a lot of hybrid models out there.

No one will buy hybrids if the infrastructure isn't there to support them. I know a few people who wanted electric cars. We even have a couple of the Tesla charging stations in the area. The problem is that a home setup takes some commitment, charging at a station gets tiresome when you're used to just filling up at a pump. They couldn't count on reliable charging stations the next city(s) an hour away. What happens to your car during hurricane season and the power is out for a few days (answer: you spend more gas recharging your car will on a generator).

Electric cars and hybrids run fine now, but they aren't practical for a lot of America. I hope Biden has some infrastructure to go with that EO. If not then it's the lefts version of the rights empty EOs.

[Endus]

No one will buy hybrids if the infrastructure isn't there to support them. I know a few people who wanted electric cars. We even have a couple of the Tesla charging stations in the area. The problem is that a home setup takes some commitment, charging at a station gets tiresome when you're used to just filling up at a pump. They couldn't count on reliable charging stations the next city(s) an hour away. What happens to your car during hurricane season and the power is out for a few days (answer: you spend more gas recharging your car will on a generator).

Electric cars and hybrids run fine now, but they aren't practical for a lot of America. I hope Biden has some infrastructure to go with that EO. If not then it's the lefts version of the rights empty EOs.

It's a chicken-or-egg situation.

People resist buying new tech when there's no infrastructure.

Companies resist building infrastructure when there's no market demand to supply.

Whichever side you're on, blaming the other side for lack of movement lets you justify your own lack of movement. About the only way to dislodge this kind of mindset is the kind of mandate that Biden's starting to implement.

While there's the up-front costs, the lifetime costs of electric vehicles are already cheaper, even considering installation of a charging center at the home. For a lot of people in apartments, your complex retrofitting charging stations is gonna become an expectation, if not a legal requirement. This is an issue that's already fiscally achievable, everyone's just arsing around muttering "make THEM go first" like sullen toddlers.

Also; regarding "practicality", if we allow for home charging implementation, current electric vehicles can meet the needs of most Americans. Already. This isn't a distant-future need. Hell, here's an infographic from 2013 that explains that back then, an EV would be entirely serviceable for 42% of Americans as their sole vehicle. And not the top-end EVs, either, but pretty much any EV on the market back then. And that circumstance has only improved over the last 8 years. https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/mil...ectric-vehicle

And that's straight EVs, not including hybrids.

[PACOX]

It's a chicken-or-egg situation.

People resist buying new tech when there's no infrastructure.

Companies resist building infrastructure when there's no market demand to supply.

Whichever side you're on, blaming the other side for lack of movement lets you justify your own lack of movement. About the only way to dislodge this kind of mindset is the kind of mandate that Biden's starting to implement.

While there's the up-front costs, the lifetime costs of electric vehicles are already cheaper, even considering installation of a charging center at the home. For a lot of people in apartments, your complex retrofitting charging stations is gonna become an expectation, if not a legal requirement. This is an issue that's already fiscally achievable, everyone's just arsing around muttering "make THEM go first" like sullen toddlers.

Also; regarding "practicality", if we allow for home charging implementation, current electric vehicles can meet the needs of most Americans. Already. This isn't a distant-future need. Hell, here's an infographic from 2013 that explains that back then, an EV would be entirely serviceable for 42% of Americans as their sole vehicle. And not the top-end EVs, either, but pretty much any EV on the market back then. And that circumstance has only improved over the last 8 years. https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/mil...ectric-vehicle

And that's straight EVs, not including hybrids.

I get everything you are saying but the US is stuck in like 6 different decades when it comes to infrastructure. I've lived various communities and had various commutes where operating an EV would've been impractical no matter the costs. Where gas stations could be sparse. Not even 10 years ago in the metro areas of FL.

EVs can and should be the mainstay in 10 years (in the US, other places could transition faster) but not without history book worthy effort or an immediate threat. I think you know it takes quite a lot a of shit in a fan for the US to see something as an immediate threat.

[Kellhound]

I've heard libertarian mythology before; it doesn't make it any less true, nor even if it were historically does it mean that state of affairs should persist. Not to mention you've yet to actually justify why "personal responsibility" (which again, isn't a thing since there are systemic factors to it) should entail poverty and destitution, or why society doesn't owe its members a decent and dignified life.

I really do think it's just a matter of you believing you're better for having made "correct" choices and don't want those choices "devalued", because not hurting your fee fees is more important than lifting people out of hardship.



I'm not the one blowing on the dogwhistle repeatedly, bruh. Lol.



Careful, you're getting your talking points mixed up.

I will take thousands of years of human history over your wishful thinking.
"Systemic factors" are just a crutch. Do I think I am better than a stupid idiot druggie? Well, I at least have enough brains to understand that drugs solve nothing.

You are just the one who can't accept that race isn't a driving factor in who I do and do not associate with.

My talking point are just fine, but you seem hell bent on avoiding answering why people making more money suddenly couldn't pay the rent.

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Solid points that never occurred to me.

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Hate to break it to you...but you ain't one of the strong. And that makes the assumption that your laughable assertion is correct.

Never said I was one of the strong, and history says its not laughable.

[PhaelixWW]

"Systemic factors" are just a crutch.

Except, really, they're not.

[Kellhound]

The world nor the US revolve around you, material things like infrastructure are not nebulous they are like data points. There's no interpretation of something like electrical lines being far worse than buried one or needing a new bridge.



Never mind looks like we have an advocate for a Darwinian society.

Ya'll got your wires crossed again. Wasn't talking about infrastructure.

Acceptance != Advocacy.

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Right so people who had one kid had to subsidize your bigger family of 3 kids.

Its funny to be so against helping other people by subsidizing childcare when you benefited in such a way.

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No you were subsidized by people who had to pay the same rate as you did but only had 1 or 2 kids.
You of course could have subsidized that family of 4 +, but i am sure there were a lot less of them vs 1-2 kid families

Except we never had need to use it, so I was subsidizing those that did.

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pay back months and months of it? which is what is the expectation is? yeah uh fuck that? maybe the land lords should get a real job instead.

Perhaps they should have just continued to pay their rent, since they didn't lose income, instead of just hoping others would pick up the tab.

Most of the landlords I have had did have real jobs, your point?

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It's extremely cash money of Joe Biden. People are still struggling as the pandemic continues, and kicking people out of homes and into their cars/the streets will not help anyone. Maybe those landlords should have saved for a rainy day, eh?

Maybe those tenants should have used their unemployment to pay their rent?

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Um honey... it was the Biden Administration that cited a particular reason why they couldn't do the extension which turned out to be... a lie.

It wasn't really a lie, as there is no chance the new moratorium will survive legal challenge.

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Well Biden did say that if landlords got a problem with the moratorium, they'll have to go through the courts.

They already have started.

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Of which Joe Biden isnt the supreme ruler of. Extensions of the eviction moratorium have a right way to be done, via congress. The pandemic is over, just get vaccinated

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The pandemic is over, just get vaccinated and for americans thats literally trivial to do

It is not over, sadly.

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Most major car manufacturers have invested in electric car technology if they're producing hybrid cars. The jump from hybrid to electric isn't as big as the jump from gas to hybrid, I'd imagine. I suppose I could be wrong in that assumption, of course.

Also, apparently, some definitions of "electric vehicles" include plug-in hybrids. Who knew.

Edit: Yeah, it looks like Biden's figure includes plug-in hybrids. The US is currently at around 3% of new cars sold being EVs, but Europe is up to 10% already. The market is already heading that direction, finally. Still going to be a challenge to hit 50% by 2030. But Biden also has a goal of zero emissions by 2050, which would pretty much mean going 100% new cars as EVs by around 2035, as older cars will remain on the road for a while.

Those goals may be near-impossible to achieve, but they're damn well worth shooting for.

EVs will always have a hard time in the US until costs come down, range goes up, batteries handle extreme weather better, and charging becomes much faster.

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What the US needs to do is build out infrastrucutre... build out trains and busses. Get rid of the fucking mandatory zoning laws requiring at times 94% of all land being delegated to single-family houses...

Build some old style towns a la Riverdale Toronto, Bordentown, Hudson county NJ, much of Queens New York. Add some well protected bike lanes and we'd be well on our way to cutting out the ridiculous amount of driving that contributes to pollution.

Trains have significant issues that limit their ability to impact transportation at either end of the spectrum (very short trips and very long trips).

A lot of people don't want to live in a multi family housing unit. They tend to suck. Bike lanes only work for short trips during good weather for fit people, they are not a solution.

[Elegiac]

I will take thousands of years of human history over your wishful thinking.

Bruh, you literally think social darwinism is anything but pseudoscience and call systemic factors a crutch. You're not qualified to be making historical assessments much less social ones, lol.

I suppose one positive aspect of climate change is that it's exposing this sort of "fuck everyone else, I got mine" politics as massively unsustainable.

[Kellhound]

Except, really, they're not.

They are. They exist to limit one's belief they can succeed.

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Bruh, you literally think social darwinism is anything but pseudoscience and call systemic factors a crutch. You're not qualified to be making historical assessments much less social ones, lol.

I suppose one positive aspect of climate change is that it's exposing this sort of "fuck everyone else, I got mine" politics as massively unsustainable.

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it invalid.

It won't. The powerful will always find a way to pray on the weak.

[Elegiac]

Just because you don't like it doesn't make it invalid.

Cool, me not liking it isn't what makes it invalid; the fact it's actual pseudoscience based on a (racist) misinterpretation of Darwinism is what makes it invalid.

[Kellhound]

Cool, me not liking it isn't what makes it invalid; the fact it's actual pseudoscience based on a (racist) misinterpretation of Darwinism is what makes it invalid.

LOL. Racism in not required for the strong to prey on the weak, it is just an easy distinction to use. Nationalism works well, so does religion. Pretty much anything that can break down lines into "us" vs "them" works.

The real question is if you are actually naïve enough to actually think humans are above this, or if you are just pushing it in hopes of using it to gain power in the future.

[Elegiac]

LOL. Racism in not required for the strong to prey on the weak, it is just an easy distinction to use. Nationalism works well, so does religion. Pretty much anything that can break down lines into "us" vs "them" works.

That's nice. Doesn't make it any less pseudoscientific, lol.

The real question is if you are actually naïve enough to actually think humans are above this, or if you are just pushing it in hopes of using it to gain power in the future.

No, I just actually have some familiarity with how human society operates and has operated historically and don't freely traffic in ur-fascist talking points like libertarians are wont to do.

[Kellhound]

That's nice. Doesn't make it any less pseudoscientific, lol.



No, I just actually have some familiarity with how human society operates and has operated historically and don't freely traffic in ur-fascist talking points like libertarians are wont to do.

Your "familiarity" is seen through rose colored glasses. Or more likely, through glasses seeing a way to power.