Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Dontrike]

A community where you control your interactions with others very much makes for a nice community.

This is some "The Greater Good" Hot Fuzz kind of shit.

[Themius]

Silver lining for the Nina Turner race is the fact Bernie lost all the black areas by 50% while nima won 5/9 and lost the remaining by 2-3 points. Shows a gain among leftist policies among blacks there.

[Zan15]

As I said, they are not free of maintenance. They have less maintenance.

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Well that is the point EV vehicles have less maintenance cost over their lifetime according to multiple studies done over multiple years. Its just how they are built vs regular vehicles. So if you are looking at total cost that needs to be factored in any "break even" calculations since its very substantial.

Its hard to include when it varies depending on one's tax liability.

Nah its hard to include when it doesn't make your comparison look the way you want it, especially since the federal tax incentive can be had by the vast vast majority of people buying the cars.

Since you were talking about Your break even point and I think I know which state you are in you also have state level incentives you qualify for, since you have spoken it in the past.

https://goelectric.oregon.gov/incentives-rebates
https://www.oregon.gov/deq/aq/progra...ev-rebate.aspx


The Oregon Department of Environmental Quality’s Oregon Clean Vehicle and Charge Ahead Rebate programs can save Oregonians up to $5,000 on the purchase or lease of a qualifying electric vehicle. All Oregonians can receive up to $2,500 for the purchase or lease of a qualifying new EV. Low- and moderate-income Oregonians can save an additional $2,500 on qualifying new or used EVs.

https://www.oregon.gov/deq/aq/progra...ev-rebate.aspx
Standard and Charge Ahead Rebates can be combined for up to $5,000 toward the purchase or lease of a new eligible vehicle.

The charge ahead rebate does have a 120% median income cap so not everyone qualifies but everyone does for the standard rebate

Qualifying income for 5 person family would be 90-120k depending on locality

[Benggaul]

A lot of us saw this coming, but welcome to 2022 and beyond:

Supreme Court decision could set off gerrymandering 'arms race'

A new study by the liberal nonprofit Brennan Center listed four states with GOP-held legislatures - Georgia, Florida, North Carolina and Texas - as possessing the highest risk of extreme gerrymandering, with new voting districts that dilute Democrats' voting power.

Those states could draw anywhere from six to 13 new congressional districts that heavily favor GOP candidates - which would be enough for Republicans to retake the House in 2022, according to findings from the Democratic data firm TargetSmart that were reported by the progressive outlet Mother Jones.

If HR1 or at the very least the John Lewis Voting Rights Act isn't passed before 2022 then the GOP will steal away any hope at having legitimate fair representation of the people. The Census under Trump was scuffed in favor of the GOP so they'll already be getting extra Representatives, that coupled with the "gerrymandering arms race" will help them ensure control of the House. The Dems have a decent shot of increasing their majority in the Senate in 2022, but unless they can hold onto the House it will be effectively 2-6 more years of absolutely nothing getting done.

[Elenos]

The Census under Trump was scuffed in favor of the GOP so they'll already be getting extra Representatives, that coupled with the "gerrymandering arms race" will help them ensure control of the House. The Dems have a decent shot of increasing their majority in the Senate in 2022, but unless they can hold onto the House it will be effectively 2-6 more years of absolutely nothing getting done.

Irrespective of Trump's actions the census not at all "scuffed in favor of the GOP".

It has been expected for years that states like, CA, IL, OH, PA, NY etc. would lose seats, and they did ( 1 each ) while other states would gain seats and lo and behold the results of the census showed just that. So piss on this notion that Dems are going to lose seats because of cheating in the Census by Trump.

As for the gerrymandering arms race that is going to play a role, especially since the current Dem majority is small but things were not looking great for the democrats regardless.

[Draco-Onis]

Irrespective of Trump's actions the census not at all "scuffed in favor of the GOP".

It has been expected for years that states like, CA, IL, OH, PA, NY etc. would lose seats, and they did ( 1 each ) while other states would gain seats and lo and behold the results of the census showed just that. So piss on this notion that Dems are going to lose seats because of cheating in the Census by Trump.

As for the gerrymandering arms race that is going to play a role, especially since the current Dem majority is small but things were not looking great for the democrats regardless.

That is incorrect we know this because the census bureau itself revolved against his actions and several court cases were filled. The entire citizenship question prevented millions from participating not to mention it was cut short on top of the pandemic. Even under the best circumstances you would take double the time to do the census given everything that was going on.

The facts that the results followed the trendline does not mean that his shenanigans did not heavily tilt the results for the GOP.

[Elenos]

The facts that the results followed the trendline does not mean that his shenanigans did not heavily tilt the results for the GOP.

Bullshit.

When the results are in line with exceptions going back even before the 2016 election that's all I can say to your statement.

[PACOX]

The US is still trying to correct its course sense Bush. Give Obama one term before Congress screwed him, thats still 16 year and Biden is basically just a plug to stop the like, add 2 more years. 18 years, man. That a generation, lost.

[Draco-Onis]

Bullshit.

When the results are in line with exceptions going back even before the 2016 election that's all I can say to your statement.

Your statement is the equivalent of saying losing $10 is the same as $1,000 gambling because you were going to lose anyway. That's not how math or life works.

[Slirith]

Sir, you have to understand, people know exactly what Kellhound is doing and, as much as I get annoyed watching these people feed the pigeons, the fact remains that they largely get away with it with him being a prime example of it. Honestly, I have barely read anything on the site in days because it has mainly been nothing but pigeon shit and pigeon food.

Just like the extent it took for Thwart to finally be removed, things shouldn't be allowed to be pushed as far as they are. When people lie, get confronted and proven it is a lie only to keep pushing that lie or others just as blatant, only to keep being allowed the platform, this is the eventual outcome.

Could we please make intentionally lying an infraction on here? That might help this some if we can prove someone is wrong only to watch them push that same lie again later. That would help with some of this back and forth.

Will never happen sadly as the mods seem to be on these people sides.

[Fugus]

A lot of us saw this coming, but welcome to 2022 and beyond:

Supreme Court decision could set off gerrymandering 'arms race'



If HR1 or at the very least the John Lewis Voting Rights Act isn't passed before 2022 then the GOP will steal away any hope at having legitimate fair representation of the people. The Census under Trump was scuffed in favor of the GOP so they'll already be getting extra Representatives, that coupled with the "gerrymandering arms race" will help them ensure control of the House. The Dems have a decent shot of increasing their majority in the Senate in 2022, but unless they can hold onto the House it will be effectively 2-6 more years of absolutely nothing getting done.

If that ends up being the case, the GOP might end up creating the violent revolution they talk about, but at that point, they won’t be the on the side they think. If they make sure the minority of the nation has a minority of representation while pushing for the fucked in the head stuff they do….

At that point I am not sure which I worry about more, the US getting violent or what it turns into if we don’t.

[Elenos]

Your statement is the equivalent of saying losing $10 is the same as $1,000 gambling because you were going to lose anyway. That's not how math or life works.

Or rather in this case it's losing $600 when the predictions were showing you losing over 1.000. Previous year predictions showed all these states that lost seats losing at least 1, but also that California could have lost 2 even 3. Cali only lost 1 in the actual census.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

But each side in politics have to make excuses and when the Dems lose Congress, which they likely will ( unless they manage to dethrone some republicans in Senate races where it's unlikely ) I guess it will be popular in democratic circles to say it's Trump's fault because he screwed with the census.

That however is why Democrats will lose unless Republicans continue to act like raving lunatics about the pandemic, which is one the main things that can and likely will ( if COVID continues to be a major issue in 2022 ) impact the midterms.

[uuuhname]

I fully expect the Dems to give up this "arm's race" just like they did during the Obama years. doing anything to "push an agenda" is too much for them.

[Bodakane]

Or rather in this case it's losing $600 when the predictions were showing you losing over 1.000. Previous year predictions showed all these states that lost seats losing at least 1, but also that California could have lost 2 even 3. Cali only lost 1 in the actual census.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

Weren't these predictions based on gerrymandered districts?

[Draco-Onis]

Or rather in this case it's losing $600 when the predictions were showing you losing over 1.000. Previous year predictions showed all these states that lost seats losing at least 1, but also that California could have lost 2 even 3. Cali only lost 1 in the actual census.

You're barking up the wrong tree.

But each side in politics have to make excuses and when the Dems lose Congress, which they likely will ( unless they manage to dethrone some republicans in Senate races where it's unlikely ) I guess it will be popular in democratic circles to say it's Trump's fault because he screwed with the census.

That however is why Democrats will lose unless Republicans continue to act like raving lunatics about the pandemic.

The point of the census is that numbers counting matters. If it didn't why did Republicans spend so much effort murking the waters? Democrats lose because they don't have the will or the balls to do the shit Republicans are pulling. Even without a single vote being cast Republicans will gain 13 seats (only need 5 to win the house) using gerrymandering. You are either ignorant of the facts or delusional.

[Elenos]

Even without a single vote being cast Republicans will gain 13 seats (only need 5 to win the house) using gerrymandering. You are either ignorant of the facts or delusional.

The seats gained or lost by gerrymandering have nothing to do with the number of reps due to the Census. Stop lying your ass trying to link the two.

Gerrymandering and voting restrictions are serious issues where you can have a legitimate argument. The census one is plain bullshit.

Weren't these predictions based on gerrymandered districts?

The Census determines the number of Representatives each state has for the House based on population. Gerrymandering is about states creating biased districts from which does representatives are elected.

The number of reps is not related to how the voting districts are shaped.

[beanman12345]

I've seen bad faith arguments, and some outright bad arguments, this one trying to deflect blame off the GOP likely winning the house due to the trump intentionally(and openly acknowledgeing) fucking the census, is at least one, but likely both. And he's not even trying, guy even mentioned the Senate, it's just so obvious.

[Draco-Onis]

The seats gained or lost by gerrymandering have nothing to do with the number of reps due to the Census. Stop lying your ass trying to link the two.

Gerrymandering and voting restrictions are serious issues where you can have a legitimate argument. The census one is plain bullshit.



The Census determines the number of Representatives each state has for the House based on population. Gerrymandering is about states creating biased districts from which does representatives are elected.

The number of reps is not related to how the voting districts are shaped.

The census is key to gerrymandering so I am going with you are not familiar with our systems. As a matter of fact you can look it up there were court cases because of the Trump administration inserting the citizenship question. The discovery phase of those trials emails from the administration and an GOP operative who passed away whose information was leaked by his daughter gave away the whole game. You are basically saying you know something the GOP and the Trump administration didn't.

[Elenos]

The census is key to gerrymandering

Nice roundabout way of saying: The GOP is going to steal the house through a rigged census. Which is not at all what happened, period.

Did Trump and the GOP have an interest in rigging it? Sure. They failed.

Wasn’t New York less than 100 people from having another seat? You can’t tell me the citizenship question didn’t stop at least that many from responding.

New York expected to lose 1 or even 2 seats. If there was an undercounting from a citizenship question it didn't just affect one state and it didn't matter.

But there's the bigger point: The BS claim the midterms are going to lost by dems due to a rigged census. That's a load of crap, but I am sure we will see a lot of people even on this forum arguing this and other point.

[Draco-Onis]

Nice roundabout way of saying: The GOP is going to steal the house through a rigged census. Which is not at all what happened, period.

Did Trump and the GOP have an interest in rigging it? Sure. They failed.

How did they fail? we have them on the record saying that it doesn't matter if the question is adopted they just wanted to scare people. Their entire strategy is a matter of public record due to the lawsuits, Do you know something they don't?