Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Canpinter]

Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that anyone could have gotten the us out of Afghanistan smoothly and not had the country implode? We spent 20 years fighting and trying to build a working government there and it falls in a matter of weeks, simply put no exit would have been smooth or successful.

[Xyonai]

Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that anyone could have gotten the us out of Afghanistan smoothly and not had the country implode? We spent 20 years fighting and trying to build a working government there and it falls in a matter of weeks, simply put no exit would have been smooth or successful.

Honestly I'll throw my hat into this ring. Considering how fucking quickly everything went to shit as soon as we were halfway out the door there was no godly way anyone was going to make our withdrawal smooth for the country itself. The best case scenario with the hand we had been dealt would have been to focus on getting our own people and the people who helped our people out of the country - the latter made exceptionally more difficult thanks to Stephen Miller's influence on Trump's foreign policy. The deadline we were dealt with didn't help any, because (as far as I know so feel free to correct me) the Trump admin hadn't made any preparations to actually withdraw by the deadline they set - in addition to blocking Biden admin from security briefings before he was officially sworn in, because Trump was a petty cunt - which left the incoming administration to scramble to meet it. Hell, they had to push it back two months and it was still a fuckin' mess.

In total hindsight, more should have actually been down to prop up and stabilize the area and not just faff about for two decades in some aimless peacekeeping operation so it didn't just fall apart like a poorly balanced Jenga tower.

[D3thray]

Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that anyone could have gotten the us out of Afghanistan smoothly and not had the country implode? We spent 20 years fighting and trying to build a working government there and it falls in a matter of weeks, simply put no exit would have been smooth or successful.

It was never going to be clean, but there were some pretty glaring mistakes made. Sidebar, Biden sounds like a pretentious idiot, change my mind. Oof that speech. You have to actually be in a place of moral authority to say shit like that and not come off as completely disingenuous.

[Kaleredar]

It was never going to be clean, but there were some pretty glaring mistakes made. Sidebar, Biden sounds like a pretentious idiot, change my mind. Oof that speech. You have to actually be in a place of moral authority to say shit like that and not come off as completely disingenuous.

Well, let's see, as far as we know Biden has never 1) cheated on his wife with a prostitute 2) created a fraudulent charity 3) Created a fraudulent university 3) grossly misrepresented property values of his property such that the state of New York is pursuing a criminal inquest against him 4) conspired with a hostile foreign power to influence an election and, of course, 5) lied about the results of an election so as to effect an attempted violent uprising with lethal results that he continues to ramble on about to this day.


So... yeah, Biden's in a place of moral authority here.

[Breccia]

You have to actually be in a place of moral authority to say shit like that

He was. He didn't start a murderous insurrection. Trump, the leader you support, did.

The end.

[Clone]

As in, "America is not a trustworthy partner." damage. See what happened with Trump pulling out of the JCPOA deal and the damage that caused. I think most countries were willing to view Trump as an aberration and not the norm, but if Biden had followed up with an even more obvious violation of an agreement the US signed then that would make it much worse. The US pulling out of the JCPOA already caused a lot of mistrust for the US, in that we would elect a POTUS who doesn't understand the significance of a country living up to its agreement with another.

Sure.

That's the decision Trump fucked up.

Biden telling them to "fuck off" instead of abiding by the signed agreement with them would have demonstrated that the USA was a faithless, untrustworthy country, and that no one should abide by any agreement the USA signs, because the USA sure won't.

If you've got an issue with releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners and telling them the USA would pull out, your anger should be directed at Trump, exclusively. Biden shares none of that blame.

But surely people would understand this is the Taliban we are dealing with. The goal should be to unfuck trump's fuck up.

[Breccia]

But surely people would understand this is the Taliban we are dealing with.

Hence the problem. Trump put the US in a no-win situation.
1) Go back on its word.
2) Negotiate with Taliban terrorists.

Because of Trump, there is no good answer here.

[Endus]

But surely people would understand this is the Taliban we are dealing with. The goal should be to unfuck trump's fuck up.

And Biden did pretty much as much as you could reasonably expect to un-fuck it. He was obliged to withdraw, but he bought an extra few months to do so. There only seemed to be some chaos in the last few weeks because the Taliban started moving forward against the Afghan government, which was always expected, and the Afghan government folded like a cheap set of cards, which wasn't expected. They were expected to likely lose, but at least put up some resistance.

That's not on Biden, that's on the Afghan government, and it wasn't predicted.

The Taliban should never have been treated as they were, by Trump. The 5000 prisoners should never have been released back to them that way, and no official agreement should have been signed. But Trump did those things, and they were both faits accompli before Biden took office; Biden had to move forward with those facts already in play.

There were still fuckups, but what people seem to mostly take issue with are mostly not down to Biden, at all.

[Draco-Onis]

But surely people would understand this is the Taliban we are dealing with. The goal should be to unfuck trump's fuck up.

That was impossible to just back out of the deal because Trump destroyed the Iran deal among many. The US being a country that breaks deals as it changes president is a major issue at the moment, no one really trusts us.

[Beefhammer]

100% Trump's fault, he literally negotiated with terrorists, after he let them out of fucking prison.

If you are trying to say he got 13 soldiers killed, I don't see you whining about the 63 that died under Trump, he only went to one of the processions when they came home, and then he sent Pence the rest of the time.

If you are trying to say he left $80 billion in shit behind for the Taliban to take, no he didn't. Most of it was rendered useless, the rest was left for the Afghani government to defend themselves, they gave up when Trump didn't negotiate the leaving with them, and instead negotiated with the Taliban after he released 5000 Taliban fighters, including their current leaders.

If you are saying that he left Americans behind, or our allies like interpreters? Trump would have left them all behind, like he did when he got the Kurds fucking Genocided. The Americans also had a fucking year that they were warned to get out. If they waited til last minute, it is on them.

Anything else you want to try?

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No, EVERYONE is blaming Trump, because we aren't fucking ignorant of fucking reality. Trump removed all the troops but 2500, blame him.

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You whine about opinion articles and post one of your own? Biden couldn't drop the withdrawal, he had to abide by it, the only thing he could do, was delay it, and he did.

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He signed the fucking agreement to pull out, how do you say it wasn't Trump's idea? How can you say he didn't do it?

This dud has so many bad takes in just on e thread in such a short amount of time. Obvious troll. This is where perma bans should be a thing.

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And Biden did pretty much as much as you could reasonably expect to un-fuck it. He was obliged to withdraw, but he bought an extra few months to do so. There only seemed to be some chaos in the last few weeks because the Taliban started moving forward against the Afghan government, which was always expected, and the Afghan government folded like a cheap set of cards, which wasn't expected. They were expected to likely lose, but at least put up some resistance.

That's not on Biden, that's on the Afghan government, and it wasn't predicted.

The Taliban should never have been treated as they were, by Trump. The 5000 prisoners should never have been released back to them that way, and no official agreement should have been signed. But Trump did those things, and they were both faits accompli before Biden took office; Biden had to move forward with those facts already in play.

There were still fuckups, but what people seem to mostly take issue with are mostly not down to Biden, at all.

It was more on the Afghan army who most defected for the Taliban instead of fighting for the Government.

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Can anyone honestly say with a straight face that anyone could have gotten the us out of Afghanistan smoothly and not had the country implode? We spent 20 years fighting and trying to build a working government there and it falls in a matter of weeks, simply put no exit would have been smooth or successful.

trump would claim to have done so. trump supporters would back that claim. But anyone without a smooth brain would tell you the implosion was bound to happen after our withdrawal.

[Templar 331]

You realize that when it comes to the details of how that was going to go down, that was all under Biden’s control not Trump right? Commander-in-chief? I thought passing blame was supposed to be Trump’s forte. If your wife planned a road trip but you’re driving the car, you’re the one responsible if you drive over a family (or drone strike them).

"I started the process.....They couldn't stop the process. They wanted to, but it was very tough to stop the process when other things are at-( continues on in toddler speak)."

Donald Trump.

I'll blame the man who's taking credit for it.

[Clone]

But anyone without a smooth brain would tell you the implosion was bound to happen after our withdrawal.

After seeing how it played out, I think we should have just annexed Afghanistan.

[Santti]

After seeing how it played out, I think we should have just annexed Afghanistan.

Afghanistan, the 51st state? Or just an unincorporated territory of US? Either way, that idea is just brilliant. What could possibly go wrong?

[PhaelixWW]

After seeing how it played out, I think we should have just annexed Afghanistan.

I legitimately am having a hard time thinking of a worse idea.

[Beefhammer]

After seeing how it played out, I think we should have just annexed Afghanistan.

Right becasue the 2400 American deaths and the 240K civilian deaths were not as messy as the pull out.

You are willfully ignorant or dumb as shit.

[Kaleredar]

Afghanistan, the 51st state? Or just an unincorporated territory of US? Either way, that idea is just brilliant. What could possibly go wrong?

"Sex on prom night is as American as our 51st state, Saudi Israelia"

[D3thray]

Well, let's see, as far as we know Biden has never 1) cheated on his wife with a prostitute 2) created a fraudulent charity 3) Created a fraudulent university 3) grossly misrepresented property values of his property such that the state of New York is pursuing a criminal inquest against him 4) conspired with a hostile foreign power to influence an election and, of course, 5) lied about the results of an election so as to effect an attempted violent uprising with lethal results that he continues to ramble on about to this day.


So... yeah, Biden's in a place of moral authority here.

I’m sorry, but anyone who drone strikes CHILDREN will EVER have a place of moral authority in my book. That’s disgusting.

[Machismo]

I’m sorry, but anyone who drone strikes CHILDREN will EVER have a place of moral authority in my book. That’s disgusting.

No, what's bad is that he's a guy who drone strikes children, and he still has a position of moral authority over your guy.

That's just how terrible Trump is.

[D3thray]

No, what's bad is that he's a guy who drone strikes children, and he still has a position of moral authority over your guy.

That's just how terrible Trump is.

Eh, I’d agree with that. Never said he was a good dude, I just liked his policies broadly speaking (and to stave off those of you who don’t understand ‘broadly speaking’ it means I liked a majority but not all of Trump’s policies). He also pissed off all the right people so that was a bonus.

[Machismo]

Eh, I’d agree with that. Never said he was a good dude, I just liked his policies broadly speaking (and to stave off those of you who don’t understand ‘broadly speaking’ it means I liked a majority but not all of Trump’s policies). He also pissed off all the right people so that was a bonus.

Yes, you liked his fascism... we've already covered that much.

Luckily, Trump had gone down as one of the worst presidents in history, and showed just how wrong all of you supporters were.

This is why people spent years supporting Hitler... right here.