Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Endus]

Biden created this crisis by enacting energy controls at the beginning of his presidency to make us further dependent on foreign oil. You guys just keep repeating talking points and ignoring what the administration did. Why aren't Republicans on board with moving towards more renewables? Because they don't work currently to fit the needs of consumers. Ask Germany how green energy is working out for them. Wind energy is the worst.

Literally all you've cited are empty and dishonest talking points. You have no basis for shit. You can't point to anything creating such a dependency, you're just pushing this vague and empty talking point. You're even lying about the impossibility of new oil leases being granted, as demonstrated above.

Also, wind energy's fantastic and efficient and you have no idea what you're talking about.
https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf...generation.pdf

Edit: And before you try and push back on my about the "talking points" nonsense, that's direct data I've now cited from BLM and the EIA contradicting your nonsense talking points. I'm relying on facts.

[Edge-]

You're missing the part where the federal government has made it near impossible to operate new leases because of regulations.

Leasing land now would not alter this. Also, it's not a solution to the problem to begin with, just a band-aide risking destroying the natural beauty and majesty of America.

You can blame Russia and whatever else you want

Why yes I will, because it's actually their fault, mostly.

Remember the tweet when democrats thanked Biden for gas price going down? I guess they were lying because he doesn't control it. https://twitter.com/dccc/status/1466...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

In which you don't realize that they were referencing the, "Thanks, Obama." jokes where Obama was blamed for all kinds of shit that he had no control over.



I know we joke that there are no conservative comedians because conservatives don't understand humor/comedy, but like, it's supposed to be a joke and not something that y'all prove true.

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Biden created this crisis by enacting energy controls at the beginning of his presidency to make us further dependent on foreign oil.

Citation needed, with causal links*

Why aren't Republicans on board with moving towards more renewables? Because they don't work currently to fit the needs of consumers.

Incorrect, because transitioning from a country build around gasoline powered cars takes a long time and a lot of money to transition to alternatives, because it's not just "what car you drive", but it's the layout of cities, it's how roads are built, it's the power infrastructure etc.

Ya'll think too small.

BTW, did you have any responses to the out of context "gotcha" attempt? Or are you just taking the L on that and pretending that you didn't post some faux-outrage.

[Elegiac]

Biden created this crisis by enacting energy controls at the beginning of his presidency

I already pointed out to you how regardless of said energy controls the US' domestic production as well as its imports from Canada/UAE/SA make it more than self sufficient. The price is not within Biden's ability to control.

You just don't know how global commodities work. Stop lying.

[TexasRules]

Man, speaking of talking points, that is LITERALLY all you're spewing.

From the far right leaning Wall street journal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-bid...ia-11646409502

We reported last month that a federal judge slapped down the Biden Administration’s inflated “social cost” estimate for greenhouse gas emissions. The Administration’s estimate captured all of the potential harm from carbon emissions globally over three centuries—yes, centuries. They threw in everything from property damage to health harms and war.

Biden officials were furious at the judge’s decision because they planned to use this grossly inflated social cost estimate to support restrictions on fossil fuels—from stricter fuel-economy rules to methane emissions curbs for oil and gas production. Now they can’t, so dozens of rule-makings are stalled.

But here’s the kicker: The White House budget office says the injunction has caused it to halt permitting work on at least 18 wells on federal oil and gas leases in New Mexico and new lease sales. The White House is blaming the judge for what it was already doing or, rather, not doing.


Interior has been slow-rolling oil and gas permits since Mr. Biden took office. A judge last June struck down the President’s leasing ban on federal land and ordered Interior to hold quarterly leases as required by law. Only in November did Interior finally hold an offshore sale. Then green groups sued, and a liberal judge blocked the sales. The Administration hasn’t appealed.

Still, Mr. Biden hasn’t held an onshore lease sale and is the only President in at least two decades not to have done so in a given year. Approvals for new liquefied natural gas terminals and expansions are also sitting at the Department of Energy and Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, according to the American Petroleum Institute.

Meantime, the left-leaning Center for American Progress this week urged the Administration to block ConocoPhillips’s project in the National Petroleum Reserve-Alaska, which aims to produce 160,000 barrels of oil per day over 30 years. A federal judge last summer tossed the Trump environmental permit, and now Interior is revisiting the project.

We take the point that reducing regulatory barriers to development won’t increase production or reduce energy prices overnight. But as one oilfield services executive recently told Bloomberg, “Biden is signaling that his environmental goals trump energy security and consumer prices,” and “that’s not lost on public companies or the banks they rely on.”

[Rasulis]

You're missing the part where the federal government has made it near impossible to operate new leases because of regulations. You can blame Russia and whatever else you want, but at least be honest about it, because the administration is not. Remember the tweet when democrats thanked Biden for gas price going down? I guess they were lying because he doesn't control it. https://twitter.com/dccc/status/1466...rc=twsrc%5Etfw

Actually, the biggest constraints to increasing oil/gas production are equipment and personnel. The oil industry is facing the same supply chain and worker shortage issues that all other industries are facing. New drill rig backlog is 6 - 12 months from order to delivery.

[TexasRules]

Citation needed, with causal links*

Oh how ironic it has become. Like you, I will not post links supporting anything, as you have deemed them not needed.

[Elegiac]

From the far right leaning Wall street journal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-bid...ia-11646409502

It's a fucking opinion page and a clearly biased one. Rofl.

Are you gonna address the point about domestic production and non-Russian imports being more than sufficient even with the controls in place, or are you gonna dodge that like you dodged being called out for lying about what Zelensky said?

[Edge-]

From the far right leaning Wall street journal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-bid...ia-11646409502

Why do you link op-eds as if they're actual editorial sources?

[TexasRules]

Actually, the biggest constraints to increasing oil/gas production are equipment and personnel. The oil industry is facing the same supply chain and worker shortage issues that all other industries are facing. New drill rig backlog is 6 - 12 months from order to delivery.

Well the funny thing is, the sheep here see Psaki and the administration use the 9000 leases as their supporting point. None of them know if any of the leases have oil, natural gas, anything. Just because there's a lease does not mean it's viable. I refuse to use supply chain issues as a catch all argument, because that leads in to the pandemic argument and that leads in to further government incompetence that most people on this board are too fired up about to be reasonable.

[Rasulis]

Biden outpaces Trump in issuing drilling permits on public lands

After years of federal lease sales to oil, gas and coal companies, environmentalists had hopes that President Joe Biden would end the fossil fuel bonanza.

But one year after announcing a halt to any new federal oil and gas leasing, Biden has outpaced Donald Trump in issuing drilling permits on public lands. After setting a record for the largest offshore lease sale last year in the Gulf of Mexico, the Interior Department plans to auction off oil and gas drilling rights on more than 200,000 acres across Western states by the end of March, followed by 1 million acres in the Cook Inlet, off the coast of Alaska.

Perception does not equal reality.

[TexasRules]

Why do you link op-eds as if they're actual editorial sources?

Some people can actually click and do their own research to the wsj article they listed from the month before. I would ask you to do the same as I will not provide you links for anything as you deem them unnecessary when supporting your points but necessary when asking someone else to support theirs.

[Elegiac]

I refuse to use supply chain issues as a catch all argument, because that leads in to the pandemic argument

I.e. you refuse to use it because then you'd have to criticise Trump and the GOP's incompetent response to the pandemic as an actual cause of inflated gas prices. Whoops.

[Rasulis]

Well the funny thing is, the sheep here see Psaki and the administration use the 9000 leases as their supporting point. None of them know if any of the leases have oil, natural gas, anything. Just because there's a lease does not mean it's viable. I refuse to use supply chain issues as a catch all argument, because that leads in to the pandemic argument and that leads in to further government incompetence that most people on this board are too fired up about to be reasonable.

Exploratory drilling is also constrained by supply chain issues. On top of that, a lot of petroleum geologists either ended up retiring during the pandemic, or switching to other sectors.

[Zan15]

Well the funny thing is, the sheep here see Psaki and the administration use the 9000 leases as their supporting point. None of them know if any of the leases have oil, natural gas, anything. Just because there's a lease does not mean it's viable. I refuse to use supply chain issues as a catch all argument, because that leads in to the pandemic argument and that leads in to further government incompetence that most people on this board are too fired up about to be reasonable.

LOL oil companies are not buying leases for ha-ha's and hoping maybe just maybe there will be oil. /facepalm.

[Edge-]

Also worth noting, domestic fracking has been largely kinda a bust - https://www.technologyreview.com/202...-jobs-industry

And it was already losing money in mid-2020 as demand for oil dropped - https://www.theguardian.com/business...lapse-covid-19

But hey, context and recent history might be really inconvenient to an argument so why bother with them!

[TexasRules]

Biden outpaces Trump in issuing drilling permits on public lands



Perception does not equal reality.

From your article above:

Biden officials said they could be held in contempt if they didn't resume leasing.

Legal challenges have "made it impossible for us to stop many of these leases," White House press secretary Jen Psaki said during Thursday's daily briefing.

Reality is that environmental groups sued to have the offshore lease sale invalidated and a judge ruled in their favor and the Biden administration is not appealing the ruling.....as I posted earlier in the thread.

Perception does not indeed equal reality.

[Endus]

From the far right leaning Wall street journal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/joe-bid...ia-11646409502

That's an opinion page.

Also, oil companies are posting record profits. Gas prices are primarily due to profiteering by greedy capitalists. They aren't having supply choked off.

[DarkTZeratul]

Well the funny thing is, the sheep here see Psaki and the administration use the 9000 leases as their supporting point. None of them know if any of the leases have oil, natural gas, anything. Just because there's a lease does not mean it's viable.

But wait, you said that gas prices were high because Biden stopped giving leases.

So which is it? Are prices high because leases were stopped, or do leases not matter? You can't even keep your own talking points straight, here.

[Daelak]

I believe the power of redistricting should remain in the legislature. It's for the point that alternative plans, like in New York and California, produce the same gerrymandered results by other means.

Now, looking at your opinion. Democracy is best served by the people's representatives in the state being denied. You claim to like impartiality, but cheer when judges write districts so ... I'd say you're no friend to democracy or impartiality. So, I'm going to keep calling out "it's only Democracy when we win" type Democratic talking points, and enjoy watching Democrats pick up House seats in gerrymandering gains while claiming that it's all the Republican's fault.

Thanks for the shout out. I typically respond until people go too far off topic, or too far in repeating the same point acting like something's different. Also, sometimes the thread moves on to other topics before I can respond. And in a minority of cases, some posters like to start with the racist and white supremacist accusations, and then act like they want a return to serious debate.

Thanks for the injection of "gerrymandering is bad when Republicans do it, but good and forced when Democrats do it" perspective. I'd rather have someone that believes it, at some level at least, than being forced to imagine if you guys still think Democracy is served when judges do the business instead of legislatures.

Redistricting shouldn't even be a political football in the first place if we were to abide by the constitutionally mandated lower bound of 1 representative per 30,000 persons. Guess what happens when there is more representation in the US?

[Rasulis]

Also worth noting, domestic fracking has been largely kinda a bust - https://www.technologyreview.com/202...-jobs-industry

And it was already losing money in mid-2020 as demand for oil dropped - https://www.theguardian.com/business...lapse-covid-19

But hey, context and recent history might be really inconvenient to an argument so why bother with them!

Fracking, specifically, has other issues also. Fracking wells do not stay productive anywhere near as long as conventional wells. Whereas conventional wells could last decades, fracking wells started to decline within 2 - 4 years. That meant to maintain production, drillers had to keep drilling new wells. They stopped doing that during the pandemic.