1. #13861
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    Im kind of thinking the same thing with "protest vote" -- taking Russian assets and using them to fund Ukraine (which isn't wrong) just demonstrates the US entrenching itself further into the war with Russia, at least that's my opinion of how it'll be explained.
    I mean, if the US is already set on supplying aide to Ukraine... and is separately set on seizing Russian assets... I see no reason why one shouldn't fund the other. Really, nothing changes, except the source of the money funding Ukraine is more directly highlighted. Would the contention be, then, that it's "particularly snide in its intentions against Russia?"

    In which case... good? Might as well both piss off the oligarchs AND help Ukraine defend itself in one fell swoop, inextricably tied to the other. Oligarch money will be directly stymieing Russia's efforts, and the oligarchs will be losing their property because of the continued war that their own money has now served to complicate against them.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  2. #13862
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I mean, if the US is already set on supplying aide to Ukraine... and is separately set on seizing Russian assets... I see no reason why one shouldn't fund the other. Really, nothing changes, except the source of the money funding Ukraine is more directly highlighted. Would the contention be, then, that it's "particularly snide in its intentions against Russia?"

    In which case... good? Might as well both piss off the oligarchs AND help Ukraine defend itself in one fell swoop, inextricably tied to the other. Oligarch money will be directly stymieing Russia's efforts, and the oligarchs will be losing their property because of the continued war that their own money has now served to complicate against them.
    So you want to suspend due process and private property for Ukraine? civil asset forfeitures are bad enough already without this.
    Last edited by Draco-Onis; 2022-04-28 at 11:29 AM.

  3. #13863
    Yea...seeing the extreme right agreeing with the extreme left, there's something wrong.

  4. #13864
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    Once you graduate you are literally on negative wealth due to debt. This puts you in the bottom % of americans.
    rofl

    Imagine stating exactly the problem as if it's some sort of gotcha. "Intoxicated on ideology" indeed.

  5. #13865
    Approval rating in the toilet.
    GDP down.
    Recession on the horizon.

    If COVID sunk Trump and the GOP, then the current economic climate will absolutely bury the Dems this year and in 2024. And probably for a long time.

  6. #13866
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    If COVID sunk Trump and the GOP, then the current economic climate will absolutely bury the Dems this year and in 2024. And probably for a long time.
    Trump sunk Trump. Him, and then his retarded idea of insurrection to keep his fat ass on his throne didn't do the GOP any favors.

  7. #13867
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Trump sunk Trump. Him, and then his retarded idea of insurrection to keep his fat ass on his throne didn't do the GOP any favors.
    Doesn't seem like either side is competent at governing.

  8. #13868
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Doesn't seem like either side is competent at governing.
    Which is why your only examples of the Democrats being incompetent are things that are literally not in their control.

    Lazy and tedious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  9. #13869
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Doesn't seem like either side is competent at governing.
    I don't believe you're "somewhat concerned" about competence.

  10. #13870
    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    **cough cough** Senate Republicans are blocking a bill that would cap the cost of insulin at $35 and save millions of lives.

  11. #13871
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    I would be curious to see their reasoning, since context often provides clarity in these cases. The last three, I'm almost positive, will have explained their votes.
    At a guess, without bothering to Google, it may be a protest vote over how similar this comes off to civil forfeiture, in the USA. Which is a massive problem. I don't agree the two are really comparable, but the vote was near-unanimous so it's not that odd to vote nay to send a message even if only tangentially related. Gotta wait for them to speak up, though; if it isn't something like this I'll definitely be WTFing about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yea...seeing the extreme right agreeing with the extreme left, there's something wrong.
    AOC and Omar and Tlaib are not remotely "extreme" anything. They're basic, standard center-left. Americans have just completely lost sight of what left-wing views actually are.


  12. #13872
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Student loan debt is concentrated among higher education, income, and wealth.
    Mortgage debt is higher among the middle-class and rich, because poor people can't afford a house in the first place. Poor people rent and get no assets for it, or they're homeless. But hey, at least they don't owe a mortgage, right?

    People who are so poor they can barely afford food and rent don't go to the college necessary to dig themselves out of their bad situation, leaving themselves poor forever.

    I work at a public university, one dedicated to keeping costs low to get as many people into college as possible. We're scraping for grant and scholarship money to keep children of farmers and inner-city youths enrolled. This attitude of yours is insulting. You're basically saying that income tax is unfair to able-bodied people because disabled people can't work.

  13. #13873
    Quote Originally Posted by Ripster42 View Post
    Student debt is well on its way to 2 trillion. Should be clear in what you mean by "fraction of that" because clearing all student debt is bigger than any single year's military expenditures. I do submit that a different reading would be correct: a fraction of the military's per year costs if the costs of the debt relief was factored over all the years it took to accrue. I'm assuming you mean something like that, but I figure I'd try to make that clear.
    Sorry, I guess I phrased it wrong.

    Wasn’t talking about the cost of paying off the debt being a fraction, I was talking about the cost of publicly funded community colleges which was estimated at something like 46 billion a year which sounded like a lot till you notice how we gave over 100 billion of year in a budget increase to the military that it didn’t even need after it was caught burying one of its own reports showing how they wasted 25 billion a year already that it could save without having to fire anyone or cut wages.

    But wasn’t talking about the student debt part of it, my bad on my phrasing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yea...seeing the extreme right agreeing with the extreme left, there's something wrong.
    You mean you see the extreme right agreeing with the center to moderate right.

    Calling them the extreme left because they are left of the GOP is like calling Tennessee extreme west coast because it’s west of North Carolina.

    I think sanders is about as left as we go and he is a centrist.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  14. #13874
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Which is why your only examples of the Democrats being incompetent are things that are literally not in their control.

    Lazy and tedious.
    Not in their control? That is debatable, at least.

    Regardless, perception is reality when it comes to politics, and they are about to be buried for a long, long time.

    Not saying this is a good thing or healthy for a democracy to have one side/party run rampant over all levels of government, but the Dems sure have been good at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory since 2016.

  15. #13875
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    At a guess, without bothering to Google, it may be a protest vote over how similar this comes off to civil forfeiture, in the USA.
    And now she's released a statement saying essentially that, that this would be a 4th Amendment violation:
    https://twitter.com/RepAOC/status/1519687572905152512

  16. #13876
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    And now she's released a statement saying essentially that, that this would be a 4th Amendment violation: https://twitter.com/RepAOC/status/1519687572905152512
    Oligarchs should suffer huge financial losses, which is why the Congresswoman participated in designing and voted for the toughest sanctions in recent memory. But this vote asked President Biden to violate the 4th Amendment, seize private property, and determine where it would go - all without due process. This sets a risky new precedent in the event of future Presidents who may seek to abuse that expansion of power, especially with so many of our communities already fighting civil asset forfeiture.
    ~~AOC

  17. #13877
    Scarab Lord downnola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Not in their control? That is debatable, at least.
    It's only debatable if your understanding of how the United States government, and federalism in general, works comes from YouTube.
    Last edited by downnola; 2022-05-12 at 03:16 AM.
    Populists (and "national socialists") look at the supposedly secret deals that run the world "behind the scenes". Child's play. Except that childishness is sinister in adults.
    - Christopher Hitchens

  18. #13878
    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    And now she's released a statement saying essentially that, that this would be a 4th Amendment violation:
    https://twitter.com/RepAOC/status/1519687572905152512
    Finally, a statement!

    And.... it's "seizing private property is bad".

    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh "billionaires have rights too" doesn't exactly resonate with any of the other policies the Squad has been pushing. I am also very very very confused at the equation of systemic injustices committed by local and state police against Black populations in the US with the property rights of war criminal Russian billionaire oligarchs....


    Weirdly libertarian ...

    It's like some wierdo California Libertarians created a Left Populist movement to "Disrupt" and grift the left.
    /e Siri, who founded the Justice Democrats?
    • Cenk Uyger, former republican
    • Kyle Kuklinski, podcaster, cohost at theHill.com
    • And another guy, apparently a Peter Thiel protege and founder from Stripe payment processors

    Why hasnt anyone warned us about podcaster! /s

  19. #13879
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Oligarchs should suffer huge financial losses, which is why the Congresswoman participated in designing and voted for the toughest sanctions in recent memory. But this vote asked President Biden to violate the 4th Amendment, seize private property, and determine where it would go - all without due process. This sets a risky new precedent in the event of future Presidents who may seek to abuse that expansion of power, especially with so many of our communities already fighting civil asset forfeiture.
    ~~AOC
    Let's also keep in mind that the total of all assets seized worldwide is 2.5 billion dollars even if hypothetically the US had them all they would be lucky to get half of the value of these used goods and it will be nothing to Ukraine. If Biden is so concerned about Ukraine's finances he should push the IMF to cancel their debts.

  20. #13880
    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker76 View Post
    Finally, a statement!

    And.... it's "seizing private property is bad".

    Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh "billionaires have rights too" doesn't exactly resonate with any of the other policies the Squad has been pushing. I am also very very very confused at the equation of systemic injustices committed by local and state police against Black populations in the US with the property rights of war criminal Russian billionaire oligarchs....


    Weirdly libertarian ...

    It's like some wierdo California Libertarians created a Left Populist movement to "Disrupt" and grift the left.
    /e Siri, who founded the Justice Democrats?
    • Cenk Uyger, former republican
    • Kyle Kuklinski, podcaster, cohost at theHill.com
    • And another guy, apparently a Peter Thiel protege and founder from Stripe payment processors

    Why hasnt anyone warned us about podcaster! /s
    Not really what I got from this quote, from the way they phrased it, it came off more as:

    "If we allow Biden to take this stuff without due process and give it to Ukraine, we allow the next Trump the ability to take others stuff without due process and give it to others as well".

    Kind of a "Don't give them any power you wouldn't want your worst enemy to have because on a long enough time line, they will be the ones sitting there".

    Edit: Whether you agree with it or not, that appears the logic she is using.

    But we also know that the GOP would gladly give Trump this power if they could get away with it while making sure that it couldn't be used against them.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

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