Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Lanrefni]

So posting here and not creating a new thread.

North Carolina Supreme Court: racially gerrymandered North Carolina General Assembly, as an unconstitutionally constituted legislature, did not have the power to propose amendments to the North Carolina Constitution.

In short the legislators who were elected by gerrymandering cannot make laws and rules to gerrymander. Oof this is a good law but I don't know if this is a reach by the court. Not going to debate the gerrymander issue and I guess I ask others not to debate gerrymandering.

Since I'm a pessimist, I see this may get shot down and no doubt would get crushed if it reached the Supreme Court.

Supreme court cannot overrule State Supreme Court on this as this is purely a North Carolina issue,not a Federal issue,-

State supreme court’s interpretation of any state law is generally final and binding to both state and federal courts. Federal courts may overrule a state supreme court decision only when there is a federal question which springs up a federal jurisdiction. An appeal from any state supreme court decision concerning matters of federal jurisdiction shall directly lie to the supreme court of the U.S. State supreme courts exercise both mandatory and discretionary review of appeals from trial courts.

[tehdang]

Supreme court cannot overrule State Supreme Court on this as this is purely a North Carolina issue,not a Federal issue,-

State supreme court’s interpretation of any state law is generally final and binding to both state and federal courts. Federal courts may overrule a state supreme court decision only when there is a federal question which springs up a federal jurisdiction. An appeal from any state supreme court decision concerning matters of federal jurisdiction shall directly lie to the supreme court of the U.S. State supreme courts exercise both mandatory and discretionary review of appeals from trial courts.

The Supreme Court routinely picks up redistricting and apportionment cases, for reasons including the 14th amendment, and its impact on federal elections.

Fifty five percent of North Carolinians voted in favor of the voter ID law, and fifty seven percent voted in favor of the Tax Cap Amendments. The legislature followed the constitutional process for putting amendments before the voters. This is easily taken up by the Supreme Court on grounds of violation of the equal protection of the laws. Lucas v. Forty-Fourth Gen. Assembly of Stateof Colo involved "systematic frustration of the will of amajority of the electorate of the State." How could denying the votes of a majority of NC citizens in a constitutional process not be a federal issue at the heart of the 14th amendment? This goes to the Supreme Court easily, in a suit claiming the people of NC were denied their equal protection under the law as guaranteed them by the federal constitution.

[Kaleredar]

The Supreme Court routinely picks up redistricting and apportionment cases, for reasons including the 14th amendment, and its impact on federal elections.

Fifty five percent of North Carolinians voted in favor of the voter ID law, and fifty seven percent voted in favor of the Tax Cap Amendments. The legislature followed the constitutional process for putting amendments before the voters. This is easily taken up by the Supreme Court on grounds of violation of the equal protection of the laws. Lucas v. Forty-Fourth Gen. Assembly of Stateof Colo involved "systematic frustration of the will of amajority of the electorate of the State." How could denying the votes of a majority of NC citizens in a constitutional process not be a federal issue at the heart of the 14th amendment? This goes to the Supreme Court easily, in a suit claiming the people of NC were denied their equal protection under the law as guaranteed them by the federal constitution.

Are we going to extend that to things like the electoral college as well, wherein the majority of the electorate of the united states is frustrated because their votes are effectively denied? Or at least, were in 2016 and back in 2000 as well.

Hell, one could argue that the electoral college, by merit of its existence, violates equal protection because people's votes carry wildly different weights depending on the population of the state they live in.


...or is this an issue you want to be unilateral on because in this specific example it allows a state government heavily gerrymandered to favor republicans to remain in power?

[Slirith]

Are we going to extend that to things like the electoral college as well, wherein the majority of the electorate of the united states is frustrated because their votes are effectively denied? Or at least, were in 2016 and back in 2000 as well.

Hell, one could argue that the electoral college, by merit of its existence, violates equal protection because people's votes carry wildly different weights depending on the population of the state they live in.


...or is this an issue you want to be unilateral on because in this specific example it allows a state government heavily gerrymandered to favor republicans to remain in power?

Obvious answer is obvious

[tehdang]

Are we going to extend that to things like the electoral college as well, wherein the majority of the electorate of the united states is frustrated because their votes are effectively denied? Or at least, were in 2016 and back in 2000 as well.

Hell, one could argue that the electoral college, by merit of its existence, violates equal protection because people's votes carry wildly different weights depending on the population of the state they live in.

...or is this an issue you want to be unilateral on because in this specific example it allows a state government heavily gerrymandered to favor republicans to remain in power?

Between-state apportionment of power is quite a different thing than within-state constitutional amendment process. CA has a voter ballot initiative constitutional amendment process, most states do not. NC has a dual legislative & popular vote for constitutional amendments, most states do not. Within the state, all citizens should not be denied the equal protection of their laws.

The checks and balances of the federal system should be preserved. If certain large states feel they are disenfranchised by hundred-year-old-compromises, then they may seek to persuade voters to amend the constitution via the two means, or seek to form a new country with their preferred means of distributing power.

[Kaleredar]

Between-state apportionment of power is quite a different thing than within-state constitutional amendment process. CA has a voter ballot initiative constitutional amendment process, most states do not. NC has a dual legislative & popular vote for constitutional amendments, most states do not. Within the state, all citizens should not be denied the equal protection of their laws.

The checks and balances of the federal system should be preserved. If certain large states feel they are disenfranchised by hundred-year-old-compromises, then they may seek to persuade voters to amend the constitution via the two means, or seek to form a new country with their preferred means of distributing power.

Okay, so the last one. That's what I thought.

[fwc577]

Surprised nobody has bumped this thread yet but AP and multiple sources are saying that tomorrow, Biden will announce $10k in student loan forgiveness and a continuation on the pause on re-payment for 4 months.

[Milchshake]

Ahhh Student Loan Forgiveness .... will Dark BRandon break the internet?

Biden is expected to extend the pause on student loan debt payments for several months while forgiving loans up to $10,000 for those with incomes of $125,000/year or less.



Expecting bad takes on:
'$10k is nothing! also the democrats are out of touch with ordinary people'
"125,000 a year isnt really rich."

[fwc577]

Ahhh Student Loan Forgiveness .... will Dark BRandon break the internet?

Biden is expected to extend the pause on student loan debt payments for several months while forgiving loans up to $10,000 for those with incomes of $125,000/year or less.



Expecting bad takes on:
'$10k is nothing! also the democrats are out of touch with ordinary people'
"125,000 a year isnt really rich."

Not gonna lie, I'm a bit worried because I have some one-time bonuses coming either this year or next that could fuck things. Even thought this $10k should be looking at last year's income, I will be fucking haunted if I somehow manage to make over $125k this year and get fucked over, lol.

[Endus]

Ahhh Student Loan Forgiveness .... will Dark BRandon break the internet?

Biden is expected to extend the pause on student loan debt payments for several months while forgiving loans up to $10,000 for those with incomes of $125,000/year or less.



Expecting bad takes on:
'$10k is nothing! also the democrats are out of touch with ordinary people'
"125,000 a year isnt really rich."

$10k is nothing. If you're underwater on your loans, it isn't going to save you. It's the equivalent of tossing someone in a 30 foot deep pit a 5 foot length of rope. Yes, that's closer to enough rope to get them out of the hole, but it isn't enough on its own.

Measures like this should be designed to benefit the worst-off the most. And by "worst-off", I mean in terms of "time left to repay"; someone with $120,000 in loans making $18/hour and scraping by trying to make payments is a heck of a lot worse off than a newly-licensed and -employed neurosurgeon with $450k in loans.

It's the same problem as with flat taxes. Which fail to benefit those who most need tax relief.

[Flarelaine]

$10k is nothing. If you're underwater on your loans, it isn't going to save you. It's the equivalent of tossing someone in a 30 foot deep pit a 5 foot length of rope. Yes, that's closer to enough rope to get them out of the hole, but it isn't enough on its own.

Even recognising this is a problem and displaying a glimpse of empathy is a huge step forward from the previous administration.

[Endus]

Even recognising this is a problem and displaying a glimpse of empathy is a huge step forward from the previous administration.

True. I'm mostly just pointing out this isn't a fix. It's a half-assed effort that's more about being seen doing something than that something being truly meaningful.

Still way better than the GOP, yes, but people should expect better still. Especially when they could just cancel student loans wholesale, and the "harms" would be entirely felt by the rich exploiters making bank off human desperation.

[Milchshake]

Even recognising this is a problem and displaying a glimpse of empathy is a huge step forward from the previous administration.

$10k debt forgiveness:
Wipes out debt for 30% of borrowers. Is 30% really "nothing"...
Halves the debt for 50% of borrowers. Brandon just finger snapped the debt for millions.

Then these mad people are ignoring the the reforms made to the four IDR programs and PSFL. There's effectively pathes for all remaining people with federal loans to get them forgiven with income based payments.


People are mad because this wasn't achieved by some mass revolution. They spent years reading books and praying for dramatic uprisings.
Just boring ass incrementalism from the centre-left party that the cool kids like to dump on.

[Flarelaine]

Nice contrast between those two answers.

[Ivanstone]

Even recognising this is a problem and displaying a glimpse of empathy is a huge step forward from the previous administration.

Previous administration didn't recognize it as a problem, showed no empathy and attempted to further profit from these loans. Biden could've had a stroke on Day 1 and it would've been an improvement.

[Milchshake]

"The wall just got 10' higher"

New details on WH student loan relief plan, per sources familiar:

• up to $20K of debt cancellation for Pell grant recipients
• up to $10K for most other non-Pell borrowers

More is always good.

[fwc577]

"The wall just got 10' higher"

New details on WH student loan relief plan, per sources familiar:

• up to $20K of debt cancellation for Pell grant recipients
• up to $10K for most other non-Pell borrowers

More is always good.

No need to rely on sources, the information is already live on government sources and holy fuck: https://studentaid.gov/debt-relief-announcement/

$10k for many borrowers
$20k if you’re a Pell grant recipient (I am one, yay!)

Radical changes to income driven repayment plan, including no interest accrual while on income based repayment.

This shit is fucking huge.

To people upthread complaining that $10k is a drop in the bucket for some, read everything. This is fucking balls on GOP chin right here.

[thilicen]

I fully expect any right-wing person or anyone who claims socialism is evil to refuse that cancellation.

[Underbottom]

I wonder how this will effect taxes.

[Greyvax]

someone with $120,000 in loans making $18/hour and scraping by trying to make payments is a heck of a lot worse off than a newly-licensed and -employed neurosurgeon with $450k in loans.

If someone knowingly took out 120k in student loans, without a positive career outlook other than $18/hour (you can literally make this working at hobby lobby), then that person needs to get their head checked.