Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Veggie50]

It's all bullshit.

Nobody can tell you exactly what / who pays for it.

It will be paid for via taxes, cuts, and borrowing.

The total cost is ~$300 billion.

if you listen to some of the smooth brain economists, they point out that there are 158 million taxpayers in 2019 and $300 billion / 158 million = $2000

But your average taxpayer isn't going to see their tax bill jump by $2000

Here are a few things our taxes pay for that cost way more than $300 billion that really don't help the average American as much as student loan forgiveness:

PPP Loan Program - $1 Trillion (Considering the huge amounts of fraud)

Defense - $768 billion (the next highest country, China, spends $252 billion per year, LOTS of waste)

Donald Trumps Corporate Tax Cut - $700 Billion (Allowed corporations to save on taxes and perform stock buybacks!)

Not to mention that they could just add it to national debt and watch it diminish in value through inflation…

[Endus]

here he is old jonny incrementalism moaning at incrementalism

old joes opening the door

I'm an incrementalist, yes, but incrementalism requires an understanding that it increments. This is a good Step 1. Where's Step 2? Because if there isn't a Step 2, it doesn't end up being incremental. Being unsatisfied with the current step and demanding more is a key part of incrementalism, dude.

[BeepBoo]

Also, before I go and make myself foolish to others, the claim from conservatives right now is that everyone else has to foot the bill for the debt being cancelled. How accurate is that statement?

It's accurate, but the top 20% of the country pays 80% of the tax revenue. So really it's just "the mildly competent and up" pay for the loans.

I personally would prefer it if we went back to pre-sallie may days where only our gifted were able to get federal student loans to go to school, and only under extreme scrutiny of if it was statistically likely you'd be able to pay them back with a good job afterwards. Either prove you're good and worth the risk, or fund it yourself, y0.

I digress. Cool for a lot of idiots who haphazardly stumbled into college because they felt social pressure and just signed on with whoever would give them a loan under whatever terms without doing any ROI analysis.

[unfilteredJW]

It's accurate, but the top 20% of the country pays 80% of the tax revenue. So really it's just "the mildly competent and up" pay for the loans.

I personally would prefer it if we went back to pre-sallie may days where only our gifted were able to get federal student loans to go to school, and only under extreme scrutiny of if it was statistically likely you'd be able to pay them back with a good job afterwards. Either prove you're good and worth the risk, or fund it yourself, y0.

I digress. Cool for a lot of idiots who haphazardly stumbled into college because they felt social pressure and just signed on with whoever would give them a loan under whatever terms without doing any ROI analysis.

Thanks for the naked misanthropy as always.

Now back to your cesspit.

[Canpinter]

I digress. Cool for a lot of idiots who haphazardly stumbled into college because they felt social pressure and just signed on with whoever would give them a loan under whatever terms without doing any ROI analysis.

Not idiots, teenagers who have been told their entire lives you have to go to college if you want any measure of success.

[BeepBoo]

Not idiots, teenagers who have been told their entire lives you have to go to college if you want any measure of success.

It took me like 10 minutes when I was a braindead teenager to research what degrees would pay well versus what I was I was interested in versus things that really shouldn't be majors because they're not worth the investment. Also, it was a running joke with my friends and I that we'd only get accepted to liberal arts programs and be poor, so anyone that thought "oh, just going to college in any way shape or form makes you successful!" is definitely an idiot to me.

Thanks for the naked misanthropy as always.

Not misanthropic unless you think that disliking any human is misanthropy. I like plenty of people. In general, I find the most capable parts of humanity absolutely stunning and fascinating.

[Kathandira]

It took me like 10 minutes when I was a brain dead teenager to research what degrees would pay well and I was interested in versus things that really shouldn't be majors because they're not worth the investment. Also, it was a running joke with my friends and I that we'd only get accepted to liberal arts programs and be poor, so anyone that thought "oh, just going to college in any way shape or form makes you successful!" is definitely an idiot to me.

People my age didn't really have the ability to look that stuff up. If you graduated before the year 2000, the internet wasn't what it is today. There are folks my age who graduated in the 90's that are still paying off loans, and not making enough money to get them cleared up.

Step out of your anecdotal experience, and start putting yourself in the shoes of those who may not have had the foresight or access to investigate degrees and their potential return on investment. Not even just due to the way of the times like those in my age group, but even folks today.

On a slightly different side of the topic. You know what is messed up about Art degrees? They do not require any sort of business management courses. Yeah, there are a lot of opportunities to work for a company as an artist, but a surprising amount of artists are independent business owners. This is a recipe for failed artists who don't have a business focused mindset. How to market their work, how to navigate social media for marketing, how to get it into shows, how to manage the finances, how to use the technology needed to market themselves, and more. Basically, you end up with people who can create fantastic work, with no idea how to profit from it, and how to make it a sustainable career.

[Canpinter]

It took me like 10 minutes when I was a braindead teenager to research what degrees would pay well versus what I was I was interested in versus things that really shouldn't be majors because they're not worth the investment. Also, it was a running joke with my friends and I that we'd only get accepted to liberal arts programs and be poor, so anyone that thought "oh, just going to college in any way shape or form makes you successful!" is definitely an idiot to me.

Congratulations your a very smart and special boy have a cookie.

Your also very lucky that the major economic crashes and worldwide pandemic of recent years didn't put you out of a job like it has for so many with student loans.

[BeepBoo]

To be 100% clear, I'm being very tongue-in-cheek about it and talking down at people this applies to, but I'm not kidding when I say it's good for them and that this is fine. We've bailed out corporations and lots of other things I thought shouldn't be bailed out that I've previously raged about. If tax money is going to go somewhere, this isn't bad, and I think it's fine for people to take every advantage they can get. I do every year on taxes.

[Edge-]

As a reminder about the people bitching about how Garland's DoJ is going after "political enemies" and being "weaponized", which is patently ludicrous on its face - https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...nke-doj-trump/

The Justice Department’s handling of a former Trump Cabinet secretary, Ryan Zinke, paints quite a different picture. Indeed, it suggests a real reluctance to pursue even what would seem to be a strong case for prosecution.

On Wednesday, a long-awaited report from the Interior Department’s inspector general found that Zinke lied and misled his way through an inquiry into potential misdeeds during his time as secretary of that department.

Crucially, this is the second time the IG has reached such a conclusion about Zinke, who is favored to win a congressional seat in Montana this fall. And also crucially, it’s the second time the Biden Justice Department has declined to prosecute the case.

Zinke should be getting charged for this, but he isn't. Because there are basically no consequences for lying to Congress under oath, as Wilbur Ross and others did, or to federal investigators as Ryan Zinke and many others have done multiple times.

I'm glad that Garland has basically built a firewall of neutrality around himself and all, but it doesn't matter to MAGA cultists and the amount of obvious high level wrongdoing by members of the Trump administration that the DoJ continues to turn a blind eye to is beyond frustrating.

[Milchshake]

This week; It's only thurdsay!

• Student debt cancelation for millions
• DACA Codification
• Research paywalls gone

That's a double digit cancellation of malarkey over the past week.

Harvard economists are predicting massive inflation of Copium.

[Zan15]

It's accurate, but the top 20% of the country pays 80% of the tax revenue. So really it's just "the mildly competent and up" pay for the loans.

I personally would prefer it if we went back to pre-sallie may days where only our gifted were able to get federal student loans to go to school, and only under extreme scrutiny of if it was statistically likely you'd be able to pay them back with a good job afterwards. Either prove you're good and worth the risk, or fund it yourself, y0.

I digress. Cool for a lot of idiots who haphazardly stumbled into college because they felt social pressure and just signed on with whoever would give them a loan under whatever terms without doing any ROI analysis.

well they should since they also have about 80% of the income.

[fwc577]

So, is the executive order going to be challenged in court? I think it’s kind of telling that I have yet to hear of a lawsuit filed yet.

I’ve been doing a little research and about the only people who would have grounds to file a lawsuit would be the processors who get paid for their government contracts by the amount of money they process and that a broad loan cancellation will cost them money.

[Paranoid Android]

I love this talking point.

Student loan forgiveness undermines one of our military’s greatest recruitment tools at a time of dangerously low enlistments.

Indiana's 3rd District Congress.

Yes, we need people who's rich parents can't afford college to become cannon fodder in our foreign wars to support corporations that make people rich, so they can pay for thier kids to go to college.

[Endus]

I love this talking point.

Student loan forgiveness undermines one of our military’s greatest recruitment tools at a time of dangerously low enlistments.

Indiana's 3rd District Congress.

Yes, we need people who's rich parents can't afford college to become cannon fodder in our foreign wars to support corporations that make people rich, so they can pay for thier kids to go to college.

Maybe a system predicated on exploiting young people's desperation to put them through life-threatening violent service that has a high chance of giving them lifelong physical and/or mental complications because they have basically no other options to try and get ahead, maybe that system is just outright fucking evil and dehumanizing.

[Paranoid Android]

The White House actually having a spine.

Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had $183,504 in PPP loans forgiven.

In response to:

Greene: For our government just to say ok your debt is completely forgiven.. it’s completely unfair

.

The White House has a thread calling out 4 Republican a-holes in the same way.

[Santti]

I love this talking point.

Student loan forgiveness undermines one of our military’s greatest recruitment tools at a time of dangerously low enlistments.

Indiana's 3rd District Congress.

Yes, we need people who's rich parents can't afford college to become cannon fodder in our foreign wars to support corporations that make people rich, so they can pay for thier kids to go to college.

Damn, That's just heinous.

Not at all surprising, though. Pretty much to be expected.

[Edge-]

The White House actually having a spine.

Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene had $183,504 in PPP loans forgiven.

In response to: .

The White House has a thread calling out 4 Republican a-holes in the same way.

Oh shit, they're going after everyone criticizing this. I like this.

[s_bushido]

Oh shit, they're going after everyone criticizing this. I like this.

The Republican cunts need to be put in their place more often. It should be easy, given that pretty much everything they rail against is steeped in blatant hypocrisy.

Too bad it won't matter, though. The idiots who believe them in the first place will just rationalize it away.

[Xyonai]

"But but but!" The Hypothetical Online contrarian stammers, getting ready to type out their flawless forum argument, "PPP loans were -supposed- to be forgiven, they were for businesses!!"

Okay then why did these non-business owning dipshits even get their hands on these loans in the first place? Thousands of small businesses who could've used this money were denied loans and went under, because leeches like these assholes hoarded all the money.