1. #15061
    Elemental Lord Midterm Voter's Avatar
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    Speaker Pelosi just appeared on RuPaul's Drag Race, during Pride Month, and said to the queens, "Your freedom of expression, of yourselves in drag, is what America is all about. I say that all the time — to my friends in drag."

    "We throw the word masterclass around here all the time, but that sarcastic, shady clap you do was f---ing epic," Raja told Pelosi, who responded with a laugh as she joked that the moment "was completely unintentional."

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  2. #15062
    Elemental Lord Midterm Voter's Avatar
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    Biden spoke at AFL-CIO Quadrennial Constitutional Convention. A first for a sitting president.

    How the largest federation of American unions views Biden's economic vision:


    How the press reports on this same economic vision:


    Next we'll be subjected to more articles about how elite out-of-touch Democrats can't communicate with the working class. Right after the media totally failed to relay Democrats' message to the working class.
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  3. #15063
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Biden spoke at AFL-CIO Quadrennial Constitutional Convention. A first for a sitting president.

    How the largest federation of American unions views Biden's economic vision:


    How the press reports on this same economic vision:


    Next we'll be subjected to more articles about how elite out-of-touch Democrats can't communicate with the working class. Right after the media totally failed to relay Democrats' message to the working class.
    Pretty words are also empty promises. Particularly as Biden, personally, is a major contributor to the current economic crisis, among other ills facing the USA today (like out of control police departments and such).

    Action's the only thing that matters, here. Pretty speeches are just an attempt to appease the masses with platitudes. And it wouldn't be the first time.

    Particularly as the economy is, largely, a zero-sum engine. Gains for the working class can only come at the expense of the wealthy. So let's see them start putting the screws to the wealthy. If it isn't hurting the rich, it isn't helping the working class.


  4. #15064
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Pretty words are also empty promises. Particularly as Biden, personally, is a major contributor to the current economic crisis, among other ills facing the USA today (like out of control police departments and such).

    Action's the only thing that matters, here. Pretty speeches are just an attempt to appease the masses with platitudes. And it wouldn't be the first time.

    Particularly as the economy is, largely, a zero-sum engine. Gains for the working class can only come at the expense of the wealthy. So let's see them start putting the screws to the wealthy. If it isn't hurting the rich, it isn't helping the working class.
    really, what have any of these people done while in office to deserve any sort of benefit of doubt as to what they really intend to do.

    seriously, why are we obligated to heap praise upon Biden and the Democrats when they have yet to do anything to alleviate the suffering of their voter base. this simply comes off as "we cannot fail you, you, however can fail us", coming from a fucking political party of all things....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Speaker Pelosi just appeared on RuPaul's Drag Race, during Pride Month, and said to the queens, "Your freedom of expression, of yourselves in drag, is what America is all about. I say that all the time — to my friends in drag."

    "We throw the word masterclass around here all the time, but that sarcastic, shady clap you do was f---ing epic," Raja told Pelosi, who responded with a laugh as she joked that the moment "was completely unintentional."
    and Donald Trump was so epiclly owned by that, he was so owned he simply evaporated into a fine mist, never to be seen or heard from again...

  5. #15065
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    really, what have any of these people done while in office to deserve any sort of benefit of doubt as to what they really intend to do.

    seriously, why are we obligated to heap praise upon Biden and the Democrats when they have yet to do anything to alleviate the suffering of their voter base. this simply comes off as "we cannot fail you, you, however can fail us", coming from a fucking political party of all things....
    Like, are the Republicans better? Fuck no.

    But the last really meaningful improvements made for the working class was under FDR, fer crissakes. And they've been consistently, bipartisanly chipped away at ever since. Don't pretend the Democrats are allies of the working class; they've absolutely been fully complicit in the creation of the corporate hellscape the USA, and to a lesser extent the global economy, has become.


  6. #15066
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    Next we'll be subjected to more articles about how elite out-of-touch Democrats can't communicate with the working class. Right after the media totally failed to relay Democrats' message to the working class.
    I hate to point out the obvious but Biden has openly complained about the "great resignation" echoing republican talking points including lamenting higher wages. His fed chair has openly stated his goal is to get wages down so of course he is struggling to get a message to the working class, he's spend months siding with policy with corporations against workers.

  7. #15067
    I genuinely hope the hike rate kills tech stocks and we go back to fundamentals when it comes to businesses

  8. #15068
    Quote Originally Posted by NED funded View Post
    I genuinely hope the hike rate kills tech stocks and we go back to fundamentals when it comes to businesses
    That has never happened stock price are driven by humans so there will always be hype sectors where valuations make zero sense. The myth that stocks are driven by data would only be true if humans were governed by logic.

  9. #15069
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    I hate to point out the obvious but Biden has openly complained about the "great resignation" echoing republican talking points including lamenting higher wages. His fed chair has openly stated his goal is to get wages down so of course he is struggling to get a message to the working class, he's spend months siding with policy with corporations against workers.
    The smart way to handle the "great resignation" would be a $22/hour minimum wage. Given that's what the old $15/hour suggestion would be today if it had kept up with inflation.

    Set the floor at a basic minimum living wage. People will go back to work if paying them is remunerative enough to be worth it. This is a hole corporate America has dug for itself through its own abusive action.


  10. #15070
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The smart way to handle the "great resignation" would be a $22/hour minimum wage. Given that's what the old $15/hour suggestion would be today if it had kept up with inflation.

    Set the floor at a basic minimum living wage. People will go back to work if paying them is remunerative enough to be worth it. This is a hole corporate America has dug for itself through its own abusive action.
    Exactly. Every study clearly points to increased profits for companies that increase their wages. Living wage is going to be yet another item in the United States (see also yet another issue where the US slags behind every other civilized nation) that eventually destroys us.

  11. #15071
    But won't they then raise the price on goods and/or services to offset that?

  12. #15072
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The smart way to handle the "great resignation" would be a $22/hour minimum wage. Given that's what the old $15/hour suggestion would be today if it had kept up with inflation.

    Set the floor at a basic minimum living wage. People will go back to work if paying them is remunerative enough to be worth it. This is a hole corporate America has dug for itself through its own abusive action.
    There is no proper way to handle the great resignation. We know this was coming by 2029 when every boomer is eligible to leave the workforce. But we kept kicking the can down the road on how to handle it. Then covid comes along and kills off a million people + record retirements allowing for an absolute shit-ton of mobility.

    I literally got a $25k raise at the end of last year so my job would ensure that I stayed. Due to my field of work, I have no worries even with a recession of finding work as well should something happen to the company I'm at (which is likely not to happen because we work in defense / aerospace).

  13. #15073
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    There is no proper way to handle the great resignation. We know this was coming by 2029 when every boomer is eligible to leave the workforce. But we kept kicking the can down the road on how to handle it. Then covid comes along and kills off a million people + record retirements allowing for an absolute shit-ton of mobility.

    I literally got a $25k raise at the end of last year so my job would ensure that I stayed. Due to my field of work, I have no worries even with a recession of finding work as well should something happen to the company I'm at (which is likely not to happen because we work in defense / aerospace).
    The shifting age demographics are a real, but entirely separate, issue. The great resignation is a shift among workers themselves over a very short term, not the much longer-scale shift in age demographics.

    And the reason I point out that it's entirely the corporate world's fault is that, at the same time that they're complaining about worker availability/how willing people are to work, those same corporations are posting record profits. That speaks to the real culprit; the profiteering of corporations, rather than some sudden laziness by potential workers. And those corporations are unwilling to give those profits up through offering better wages, for the most part. Some, such as yours, for certain valued positions, perhaps, but systemically? Not so much.


  14. #15074
    Quote Originally Posted by Armael View Post
    But won't they then raise the price on goods and/or services to offset that?
    People have done the math, and it's not even remotely a 1:1 increase. To quote a Twitter thread:
    Lemme do some quick back of the envelope math about wages. On a busy day at the pizza place, we'd have the following crew:
    • Drivers: $2/hr Tip Wage - 44 man-hours
    • Insiders: $8/hr - 20 man-hours
    • Managers: $12/hr - 22 man-hours

    For a total of ~$512. Aiming for ~15-20% of sales. That works out to ~17% on a ~$3000 night, so that's bang-on target.

    Let's say we raised everybody there to a $15/hr wage. We'd end up adding $778 to labor for the day. More than doubling! That sure sounds like a lot!

    But hang on a second. Let's assume for easy math that what we're selling is $10 one-topping large pizzas. For 3k, we're selling 300. We've got to divide up that 778 between the pizzas. That raises the price of each pizza from $10 to $12.59.

    But, here's something important. The price of a pizza has actually gone down. Remember, money isn't real! It's a representation of the time worked. The vast majority of the people we had been selling that pizza to weren't making $15 an hour before. We were in a college town, that manager wage of $12/hour was a /good/ wage. WE were buying that pizza.

    So, in terms of value:
    • The cost of the pizza is lower for a driver. The driver was probably, with tips, making 10-15/hour, but that depends on how good the night is - some nights, it might not be minimum wage. So, $7-15/hour. The pizza costs probably more than an hour of work. Now, if they're making 15, it costs 50 minutes of work. Reliably.
    • Likewise, for the manager, 50 minutes of labor. It's a few seconds more expensive now, but it's still right about ~83% of an hour.
    • For the insider, the cost of that pizza went from 75 minutes worth of labor, to 50 minutes of labor. It's 33% cheaper.

    There are some externalities - the price of the things we use to make the pizza will go up a bit, but not by much; farms are efficient as fuck, and farm workers process a truly staggering amount of ingredients per hour. It's ameliorated. The workers are making substantially more money. Their lives are better. They're happier. And all for an extra $2.59 per pizza, if the only place we're shunting this cost is direct to the customer. If we get rid of tips? 20% was pretty standard. So now, it's only .59 more.

    And now, those workers with more money - they're not putting it into savings accounts. They're buying the things they've just been making do without. Repairing their cars. Buying shit for their leisure time. Hell, FOOD - I /never/ went out to eat when I was working restaurants. God forbid, maybe they even make enough money to follow health code rules and actually go to the doctor when they get sick. Because right now they don't. The people making your food are doing so while sick. Constantly.

    It also means that rent in Charlotte ($1500 avg for a two-bedroom, so 750ish/person) goes from 60% of a full-time minimum wage's monthly take, to 29%. It cuts the cost of your rent in goddamn half. It's still not "affordable" by the standards of my parents' generation, but it means that a person making minimum wage can afford on ~1/3rd of their income to live with a roommate.

    That's what a $15/hour minimum wage means. You get to live with a basic human amount of dignity.

    And unless the landlord goddamn DOUBLES your rent (they would, the fuckers), it's still a good deal for you. Because the pizza didn't double in price. It went up by $0.59.
    https://twitter.com/NomeDaBarbarian/...13493229146115

  15. #15075
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    People have done the math, and it's not even remotely a 1:1 increase. To quote a Twitter thread:

    https://twitter.com/NomeDaBarbarian/...13493229146115
    Even beyond that, if you've passed junior high mathematics, you should know why it mathematically can't be a 1:1 increase, all other things remaining equal.

    Price is, necessarily, a function of the cost-to-produce/provide a good or service, plus a certain level of profit. Just by virtue of there being a profit, prices cannot scale at the same rate as wages. Even if wages make up 100% of that cost-to-produce, which they never do; there's also rental for commercial space/licensing, insurance costs, transport costs, material costs, management costs, servicing costs (water and sewer and the like), electricity, and so on. Wages are generally a small fraction of operating costs at most businesses, even service jobs with low wages like fast food joints.

    So say wages are 30% of your operating costs (unreasonably high), and your profit margins are only 5% (they could be lower, I'm making the math easier for me). So the remaining 65% of your costs are inelastic for this comparison. For every $1 spent on your products or services, $0.30 pays your staff, and the business owner makes $0.05 in profit. Let's say you're selling for a dollar a unit, to make it easy.

    Now, double the wages overnight, and change nothing else. Now, your cost-to-produce is the same $0.65 of inelastic costs, but wages are another $0.60. And you still want your $0.05 profit per unit. The total cost, there, passing all those wage hikes on to the customer? $1.30 per unit.

    You doubled wages. Prices went up 30%. Wage increases are always a fraction of what goes into the pricing, and that means that even if profit margins remain the same, wages mathematically cannot contribute 1:1 to price increases. Any price increase can only ever be proportional to what percentage of their costs boil down to wages.

    The only way prices would double if wages doubled is if employers also jacked their profit margins through the roof to exploit the consumer, typically by lying about the reasons the price increased so much.


  16. #15076
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The smart way to handle the "great resignation" would be a $22/hour minimum wage. Given that's what the old $15/hour suggestion would be today if it had kept up with inflation.

    Set the floor at a basic minimum living wage. People will go back to work if paying them is remunerative enough to be worth it. This is a hole corporate America has dug for itself through its own abusive action.
    I agree but the reaction from the press and Biden has been to ignore record breaking corporate profits and blame the working class for making "too much money".

  17. #15077
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armael View Post
    But won't they then raise the price on goods and/or services to offset that?
    I mean, they're arbitrarily raising the prices on goods and services anyway even without wages increasing to compensate. So actually legislating for national wage increases can't make things much worse (save for getting blamed for inevitable price hikes because that's the trend going forward with or without said increase.)

    A halfway decent bill to increase the Minimum Wage would also probably include clauses and regulations to prevent companies from just boosting prices on everything to entirely offset increased wages anyway.

  18. #15078
    The Unstoppable Force Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyonai View Post
    I mean, they're arbitrarily raising the prices on goods and services anyway even without wages increasing to compensate. So actually legislating for national wage increases can't make things much worse (save for getting blamed for inevitable price hikes because that's the trend going forward with or without said increase.)

    A halfway decent bill to increase the Minimum Wage would also probably include clauses and regulations to prevent companies from just boosting prices on everything to entirely offset increased wages anyway.
    That’s all fine and dandy, but… if the votes required to pass such legislation aren’t there… they aren’t there.

    And I think we should be beyond the point where “just threaten manchin/sinema with primarying/pulling support/statistics show that voters actually like XYZ/an angrily worded letter” should be the recommended “solution.” They don’t seem to care, and the GOP aren’t going to spring for it either.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  19. #15079
    Merely a Setback Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armael View Post
    But won't they then raise the price on goods and/or services to offset that?
    Yes.

    But not to a point where it doesn't make raising the minimum wage irrelevant. We're talking about raising the price of goods by some amount in pennies while raising purchasing power among our labor force to a much greater extent.
    Putin khuliyo

  20. #15080
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    That’s all fine and dandy, but… if the votes required to pass such legislation aren’t there… they aren’t there.

    And I think we should be beyond the point where “just threaten manchin/sinema with primarying/pulling support/statistics show that voters actually like XYZ/an angrily worded letter” should be the recommended “solution.” They don’t seem to care, and the GOP aren’t going to spring for it either.
    I don't think the democratic party wants to raise wages simply put if they wanted to they could have just made Sinema / Manchin write the bill for the minimum wage increase they wanted. They openly said they wanted $12/hour while not $15 democrats simply dropped the issue and didn't bother, on a lot of issues the democrats just walk away instead of making them you know legislate.

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