1. #16701
    I'm not the least bit obligated to turn down the hyperbole when it's 100% not acatully hyperbole. YOU can go ahead and explain to me why borders should exist, why a country that has spent the last century immiserating the global south is not the least bit obligated to help those it's harmed. explain that in a way that isn't inherently fascistic. have fun Edge.

  2. #16702
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    YOU can go ahead and explain to me why borders should exist why a country that has spent the last century immiserating the global south is not the least bit obligated to help those it's harmed.
    That's an entirely different topic dude. And one I'm sure we agree far more than disagree on in a discussion of "oughts". Currently, this is a discussion of "is".

    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    explain that in a way that isn't inherently fascistic. have fun Edge.
    Because you have yet to establish how it is. It's not up to me to disprove your claim, it's up to you to prove it.

  3. #16703
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Because you have yet to establish how it is. It's not up to me to disprove your claim, it's up to you to prove it.
    this right here is exactly why I'm not going to bother engaging with you on this. like, I'm not obligated to sit here and give you a college course on how the US's foreign policy is OBVIOUSLY fascistic. or how borders shouldn't exist and if they do, it's a sign your country is a failure. especially when I know the response I get is going to be some wishy washy hand wave over oh you can't hold the leader of the most powerful country on earth and head of a particular political party accountable for their actions or their predecessors. MUCH less have the entitlement necessary to criticize them for it. it's a waste of my fucking time, just accept that Joe Biden believes in the same set of values an outright fascist like Abbot has and deal with that yourself instead of making it other people's problem, hmmmm?

  4. #16704
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    this right here is exactly why I'm not going to bother engaging with you on this. like, I'm not obligated to sit here and give you a college course on how the US's foreign policy is OBVIOUSLY fascistic. or how borders shouldn't exist and if they do, it's a sign your country is a failure. especially when I know the response I get is going to be some wishy washy hand wave over oh you can't hold the leader of the most powerful country on earth and head of a particular political party accountable for their actions or their predecessors. MUCH less have the entitlement necessary to criticize them for it. it's a waste of my fucking time, just accept that Joe Biden believes in the same set of values an outright fascist like Abbot has and deal with that yourself instead of making it other people's problem, hmmmm?
    You're not obligated to, though I've already taken some courses in college that did cover this long ago so that's probably unnecessary. Do you teach this in college?

    But don't expect anyone to take anything you post seriously, either. There's no discussion if you're going to take a position like this.

  5. #16705
    I don't anticipate anything from Libs except being undeservedly smug while the world burn down around them.

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    NOT TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT OR ANYTHING but when the climate crisis really starts ramping up I honestly dread what you people will come up with as a "solution" when even more people come to the border.

  6. #16706
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    @uuuhname Borders exist because people in countries want those borders to exist. They serve as a sign that limits what other countries can and cannot do, like... not having troops of a hostile nation crossing over and conducting "training exercises" next to your people. Borders also exist because then you can pass laws to say what can and cannot be done in your territory. If there's no borders, then you're also effectively waiving away the right to enforce laws, since anyone can come and go as they please. You also can't, y'know, keep track of who is entering and leaving your country without borders. Not that we do a perfect job of that to begin with, but something is better than nothing.

    I get the feeling you're an anarcho communist and believe that everything would work out without governments or hierarchies or people in power. I could be wrong about that, of course.

  7. #16707
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    @uuuhname Borders exist because people in countries want those borders to exist. They serve as a sign that limits what other countries can and cannot do, like... not having troops of a hostile nation crossing over and conducting "training exercises" next to your people. Borders also exist because then you can pass laws to say what can and cannot be done in your territory. If there's no borders, then you're also effectively waiving away the right to enforce laws, since anyone can come and go as they please. You also can't, y'know, keep track of who is entering and leaving your country without borders. Not that we do a perfect job of that to begin with, but something is better than nothing.
    if this was supposed to justify why borders exist in a way that ISN'T inherently fascistic, you failed.

  8. #16708
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    if this was supposed to justify why borders exist in a way that ISN'T inherently fascistic, you failed.
    "We want to make sure other countries don't just roll on up and invade us willy nilly, therefore borders. Also, we should have laws."
    "WOW that's so fascist of you."

    ?????
    Last edited by The Stormbringer; 2023-10-06 at 10:01 PM.

  9. #16709
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    "We want to make sure other countries don't just roll on up and invade us willy nilly, therefore borders."
    "WOW that's so fascist of you."

    ?????
    omfg. yes, the US sure has a problem with invading Mexican military forces... pouring over the border uncontested.

  10. #16710
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    omfg. yes, the US sure has a problem with invading Mexican military forces... pouring over the border uncontested.
    in which you're mistaking a general discussion about borders existing and their utility for a specific discussion of a border existing and ignoring anything outside of that singular fact

  11. #16711
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    in which you're mistaking a general discussion about borders existing and their utility for a specific discussion of a border existing and ignoring anything outside of that singular fact
    or maybe I simply don't give a fuck about any particular instance? oh wow that border sure did things to keep that invading army out, oh wow you sure don't use this entirely made up line in the sand to justify why some people simply don't deserve the things you have.

    no no just ignore all the points in history where borders between tribes and states simply did not exist so I can win this argument on the internet.

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    and oh wow look at that, get all bitchy about opinions on whether borders should exist cuz we can't actually talk about the politicians enacting polices that do nothing to address the issues they claim to care oh so much about which will lead to environmental damage and possibly human death. we can't ACTULLY talk about that cuz the libs will get sweaty having to defend Biden on this.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2023-10-06 at 10:26 PM.

  12. #16712
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    or maybe I simply don't give a fuck about any particular instance? oh wow that border sure did things to keep that invading army out, oh wow you sure don't use this entirely made up line in the sand to justify why some people simply don't deserve the things you have.
    It's almost like there are a helluva lot more reasons beyond military. Including things like keeping track of goods coming into the country and whatnot and allowing for inspections. You know, so people don't bring through huge trucks of invasive plants and animals and just release them into the US on the regular because ain't nobody out there checking to see of that big-rig hauling something into the US has its paperwork in order or check what it's hauling or anything else.

    Just absolutely no imagination for why with how the world currently works there might be quite a lot of general public utility to borders even if we can agree that they have harms.

    Which to go back to the bit about no imagination, I'll double down on and say that the problem isn't borders. It's policy around it. Borders existing, fencing existing etc. isn't actually inherently bad itself. You can have that while having policies that are welcoming for immigrants, refugees, and asylum seekers. That you don't think that's possible makes me think you haven't spent much time thinking and reading about this topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    no no just ignore all the points in history where borders between tribes and states simply did not exist so I can win this argument on the internet.
    I haven't the foggiest clue what you're getting at, here.

  13. #16713
    I'm simply going to point out I don't think nation states much less borders should exist and if you feel the need to address that particular part I CANNOT stress enough how little I give a fuck about your opinions on the matter.

    so back to the topic of Biden signing off on legislation that will harm the environment, harm native places of relevance and actual people all to deal with issues entirely made up or a consequence of this country doing imperialism in Latin America.
    Last edited by uuuhname; 2023-10-06 at 10:39 PM.

  14. #16714
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I'm simply going to point out I don't think nation states much less borders should exist and if you feel the need to address that particular part I CANNOT stress enough how little I give a fuck about your opinions on the matter.
    Sir, this is the Biden/Harris thread. If you want to have a political discussion on borders (or nation states existence to begin with) specifically you can make a thread for it.

    If you're not interested in discussion or others opinions, why are you here? Just to soapbox or something?

  15. #16715
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Sir, this is the Biden/Harris thread. If you want to have a political discussion on borders (or nation states existence to begin with) specifically you can make a thread for it.

    If you're not interested in discussion or others opinions, why are you here? Just to soapbox or something?
    so back to the topic of Biden signing off on legislation that will harm the environment, harm native places of relevance and actual people all to deal with issues entirely made up or a consequence of this country doing imperialism in Latin America.

    - - - Updated - - -

    you're the ones who love to go on tangents on peoples personal opinions while ignoring the topic.

  16. #16716
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    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I'm simply going to point out I don't think nation states much less borders should exist and if you feel the need to address that particular part I CANNOT stress enough how little I give a fuck about your opinions on the matter.

    so back to the topic of Biden signing off on legislation that will harm the environment, harm native places of relevance and actual people all to deal with issues entirely made up or a consequence of this country doing imperialism in Latin America.
    You don't think people with a shared cultural, ethic, ideological, or other element should get together and form stable groups where they can all operate under in a manner they find agreeable?

    See, I totally get "free borders". If you don't like it where you are, you should be able to freely move to somewhere you like better. With people you like better. With ideas you like better. With jobs you like better. Makes sense.

    But your argument turns into silliness when you say "nation states shouldn't exist", because you're pretty much arguing against the fundamental social-organizational nature of humanity, and you sound stupid. Like, it sounds like you don't understand humanity at all, and probably shouldn't be discussing issues relating to it.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  17. #16717
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    You called me (and others) fascists for not losing our fucking minds because Biden had to follow the rules of society.

    I'm gonna defend myself.
    lol ok peanut gallery.

    I'd love to see what the reactions were from you clowns when Trump was all on his border wall nonsense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    also I don't recall naming a single person in this thread a fascist so not sure what I'm supposed to gleam from this outburst other than, "a hit dog hollers."

  18. #16718
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    lol ok peanut gallery.

    I'd love to see what the reactions were from you clowns when Trump was all on his border wall nonsense.
    It's almost as if context matters...

    Biden didn't campaign on building walls and isn't out there spending most of his time trying to get the money to build his walls, bro. We've discussed some of the "whys" in terms of money being allocated for it and pressure from members of his own party who have districts in that area/on the border. We don't have to be thrilled with it and I'd challenge you to find anyone in this thread who's jazzed or anything but critical of the move, but we can understand why while also acknowledging that it's not exactly a huge chunk of land that it's being built across and not the end of the world.

  19. #16719
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Biden didn't campaign on building walls and isn't out there spending most of his time trying to get the money to build his walls, bro..
    oh wow, oh what a good boy Joey is then, all is forgiven! no really this convinced me!

    convinced me this country is fucking joke, a cruel sick joke.

  20. #16720
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    oh wow, oh what a good boy Joey is then, all is forgiven! no really this convinced me!

    convinced me this country is fucking joke, a cruel sick joke.
    Ah, right. Forgot you're not interested in discussion but just endless gotchas. I'll leave you to your soapbox, then.

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