1. #16721
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    79,134
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    @uuuhname Borders exist because people in countries want those borders to exist. They serve as a sign that limits what other countries can and cannot do, like... not having troops of a hostile nation crossing over and conducting "training exercises" next to your people. Borders also exist because then you can pass laws to say what can and cannot be done in your territory. If there's no borders, then you're also effectively waiving away the right to enforce laws, since anyone can come and go as they please. You also can't, y'know, keep track of who is entering and leaving your country without borders. Not that we do a perfect job of that to begin with, but something is better than nothing.

    I get the feeling you're an anarcho communist and believe that everything would work out without governments or hierarchies or people in power. I could be wrong about that, of course.
    Focusing on borders is a red herring, anyway.

    There's a massive refugee crisis, globally, for pretty much exactly one reason; global capitalism. Global capitalism is both creating problems by driving factors that trigger refugee flight, and is also responsible for the entire explanation of why refugee populations can't be housed in recipient countries.

    The whole thing largely boils down to "we can't build enough emergency/low-income housing to handle the influx because we haven't figured out how us rich capitalist fucks can profit off this specific human misery, yet". The capacity is there, or at least could be developed pretty quickly (as in, we've had more than enough time already). But rich assholes can't make money off it, so they don't bother. So they spend money lobbying for measures that let them continue to focus on their self-enrichment rather than what's good for those in need.

    A lot of the hate gets inflamed deliberately because that's something those rich fucks can sell to the mouthbreathers, because they sure wouldn't support the financially exploitative reasons, which aren't in those mouthbreathers' interests either.

    And yes; the Democrats are also driven by capitalism, as much as the Republicans. That's why neither supports a big influx of immigrants, though they're not equally culpable here.


  2. #16722
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Premium
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ...location, location!
    Posts
    15,398
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    I'm simply going to point out I don't think nation states much less borders should exist and if you feel the need to address that particular part I CANNOT stress enough how little I give a fuck about your opinions on the matter.

    so back to the topic of Biden signing off on legislation that will harm the environment, harm native places of relevance and actual people all to deal with issues entirely made up or a consequence of this country doing imperialism in Latin America.
    He has no choice. The appropriations made for the expansion of the wall were approved back in 2019. He literally can't do anything about it, unless you're saying he should defy Congress?

  3. #16723
    Elemental Lord unfilteredJW's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    8,816
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    That's better. But I'd also suggest this. I edited my reply to you, so you might have missed it:

    You posted a link. No context. We have no idea if you agree with what was done in the article, disagree, partially agree/disagree, etc. No idea why you posted it. Basically, what are you trying to say when you post a link without comment?
    That's because she's actively astroturfing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    I really don't understand why Dems always have to follow the rules, but never Republicans.
    That's a question for the guy in the mirror. Yikes.

  4. #16724
    Pandaren Monk masterhorus8's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Irvine, CA
    Posts
    1,785
    Quote Originally Posted by Chonogo View Post
    I responded to you every time. You chose not to respond back until now. Eat a snickers bar.


    Doing the job because society says that you have to do the job is not the same thing as supporting the building of a wall. In the current case, it's 17 fucking miles and has been determined to be an emergency. And it's not 17 miles of wall. Roads are part of the mitigation process to handle the emergency.

    Everyone in this discussion agrees that building a wall is stupid.

    Have a snickers bar.





    What were you saying? Either go eat a snickers or go out and understand how the world works before you attempt to harass people that are following the rules even though we hate what the rules are making us do. Some call that society. I call that fucking reality.
    Dude, stop... You're making me want a snickers.
    9

  5. #16725
    welp there is about to be a crisis in the middle east for biden.

    fuck those terrorist scum

  6. #16726
    Quote Originally Posted by uuuhname View Post
    omfg. yes, the US sure has a problem with invading Mexican military forces... pouring over the border uncontested.
    Ok, prove that borders, in general, are a unique thing to the US. Prove that they are also fascist in nature.

    Question, do you have a house or a home of some sort? Do you allow people, anyone and everyone, to freely come and go or do you keep your doors closed and check to see who comes by them knocking?

  7. #16727
    He's literally arguing that the very concept of borders is inherently fascist. There's no value in attempting to hold a dialogue with this level of pant's on head crazy.

  8. #16728
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    27,121
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    He has no choice. The appropriations made for the expansion of the wall were approved back in 2019. He literally can't do anything about it, unless you're saying he should defy Congress?
    Which actually is a fair argument to make. Not this anarcho-hippy bullshit about borders.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  9. #16729
    Titan Lenonis's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    14,394
    Well the last several pages have got to be some of the worst "both sides" I've seen in a long time. Plus I don't think I've seen anyone get so irrationally angry about....the concept of nations having borders?

    Super bizarre.
    Forum badass alert:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    It's called resistance / rebellion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana Violence View Post
    Also, one day the tables might turn.

  10. #16730
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Premium
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ...location, location!
    Posts
    15,398
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Which actually is a fair argument to make. Not this anarcho-hippy bullshit about borders.
    Yeah. I also had a reply from someone who deleted it. Wondering if it was them or someone else? Shrug.

    Anarcho-communism is a beautiful fantasy, a lovely dream of a utopian society wherein we all can do our own thing without stepping on each others' toes, no one bosses anyone else around, and we all live happily.

    Which is, y'know, a dream. It's not possible, at least, not today. Maybe in a thousand years, or ten thousand, who knows? But right now, there's no chance of it happening.

  11. #16731
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    27,121
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Yeah. I also had a reply from someone who deleted it. Wondering if it was them or someone else? Shrug.

    Anarcho-communism is a beautiful fantasy, a lovely dream of a utopian society wherein we all can do our own thing without stepping on each others' toes, no one bosses anyone else around, and we all live happily.

    Which is, y'know, a dream. It's not possible, at least, not today. Maybe in a thousand years, or ten thousand, who knows? But right now, there's no chance of it happening.
    Exactly.

    Back to the discussion at hand, while I realize Biden is the "give the country a hug" president and the "don't rock the boat" president, I REALLY would like to see him buck back against Congress more.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  12. #16732
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/1...times-00120811

    Politico is digging deep in their continued valiant attempts to ensure they're totally neutral and equally hard on all sides.

    Case in point?

    The name Jacquelyn Asbie probably doesn’t resonate much for many. But for the politically attuned, it may ring familiar.

    She was the New York Times security guard captured on video telling then-candidate Joe Biden how much she loved him while he rode the elevator up to an endorsement interview with the paper’s editorial board.


    President Joe Biden speaks with Jacquelyn Asbie in the elevator at the New York Times building in 2019. | Brittainy Newman/The New York Times via Redux Pictures

    By DANIEL LIPPMAN

    10/10/2023 06:13 PM EDT

    The name Jacquelyn Asbie probably doesn’t resonate much for many. But for the politically attuned, it may ring familiar.

    She was the New York Times security guard captured on video telling then-candidate Joe Biden how much she loved him while he rode the elevator up to an endorsement interview with the paper’s editorial board.

    Biden didn’t win the endorsement. But that moment, which went viral, mattered more: affirming his status as the candidate of the worker, not the intellectual elite that resided in the Ivory towers of the nation’s foremost paper above.

    It mattered for Asbie, too. She went on to nominate Biden at the Democratic National Convention. For a moment, she was not just a national surrogate but an emblem of a presidential campaign.
    Alright, I guess she had her moment and I hope she made something of it.

    But tough times have since fallen on her. Asbie, 35, said she got in a major car accident that left her injured and her car totaled. She was fired from that Times job last year for allegedly forging expense receipts. She said she got into an argument in late September with her parents, who then cut her off and took out a protective order against her for refusing to leave their house. She has resorted to a GoFundMe campaign to pay her bills.
    Alright, some rough times. The car accident is really unfortunate, but forging expense receipts (which I doubt the Times of all outlets would lie about knowing full well that plenty of folks are always gunning for them and that she's not some random employee) is pretty serious and a purely perosnal problem. So is arguing with your folks so they cut you off and seek a protective order against you.

    “Currently seeking Shelter, Food, transportation and clothes. Help to get back on my feet for good! Been a long year and a hard struggle,” she wrote on the campaign’s website. As of Tuesday afternoon, out of a $5,000 goal, she’s raised $1,856.

    Asbie does see her story as an illustration of larger problems that have taken place across society in recent years. She is worse off economically than when Biden took office. Much of it, she acknowledged, is because of irregular employment. She’s now about to start a job that would pay significantly less: $16.95 an hour at a grocery warehouse compared to the $32 an hour she made at the Times. But some of it is the high cost of living.
    The fuck? Don't worry, the article doesn't go on to discuss any Biden administration policies that might have had direct impacts on her current situation or anything.

    “I kind of looked at people as you know, if you’re upper class or you’re a manager, and I’m just a regular worker, or you’re a celebrity, and I’m just working a nine to five, that you think you’re better than me,” she said. “And I didn’t feel that from him.”

    She supports Biden’s reelection but is preoccupied with matters far from politics. “I have my own issues right now,” she said. “I’m drained from fighting for myself, and nobody else has helped me. And that’s the truth.”
    Well yeah, I imagine any of us would be. But nice to see that she's not attempting to place blame for her situation on Biden and his policies as Politico ever-so-subtly appears to be.

    Asbie currently lives in her hometown of Rochester, N.Y., on her cousin’s couch but is planning to go to a shelter next week. Though Biden promised she could visit him in the White House in a campaign video, a trip has yet to be finalized.

    “We have been in touch with Jacquelyn about hosting her and her family members here at the White House,” White House spokesperson Robyn Patterson told West Wing Playbook. “We continue to hope to host her here soon.”

    Asked what she would tell Biden if she could speak to him again, Asbie said: “Take care of those that take care of you.”
    Fair! Sounds like her life has been a mess and she's not in a position to make the trip, I hope the door continues to remain open to accommodate her (including travel) while he's in office.

    Anyways, that's a fun little article about a personal story for someone who had a moment in politics but it's done in such a weirdly pointless way.

  13. #16733
    Over 9000! ringpriest's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    The Silk Road
    Posts
    9,435
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenonis View Post
    Well the last several pages have got to be some of the worst "both sides" I've seen in a long time. Plus I don't think I've seen anyone get so irrationally angry about....the concept of nations having borders?

    Super bizarre.
    Not really bizzare. While I can't speak for anyone else, and I think the following is overly simplistic, it does have a significant element of truth as well:
    "In today’s America, conservatives who actually want to conserve are as rare as liberals who actually want to liberate. The once-significant language of an earlier era has had the meaning sucked right out of it, the better to serve as camouflage for a kleptocratic feeding frenzy in which both establishment parties participate with equal abandon" (Taking a break from the criminal, incompetent liars at the NSA, to bring you the above political observation, from The Archdruid Report.)

  14. #16734
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnysensible View Post
    welp there is about to be a crisis in the middle east for biden.

    fuck those terrorist scum
    Maybe it's say something nice about Biden day. He gave a good speech yesterday. Moral clarity without equivocation. Hit major points.

    "Pure, unadulterated evil"
    "Hamas - a group whose stated purpose for being is to kill Jews"
    "So, in this moment, we must be crystal clear: We stand with Israel. We stand with Israel. And we will make sure Israel has what it needs to take care of its citizens, defend itself, and respond to this attack."
    "There is no justification for terrorism. There is no excuse."
    "They use Palestinian civilians as human shields."
    "I told him if the United States experienced what Israel is experiencing, our response would be swift, decisive, and overwhelming."

    Good on him & his speechwriters.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  15. #16735
    Elemental Lord unfilteredJW's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    8,816
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Maybe it's say something nice about Biden day. He gave a good speech yesterday. Moral clarity without equivocation. Hit major points.

    "Pure, unadulterated evil"
    "Hamas - a group whose stated purpose for being is to kill Jews"
    "So, in this moment, we must be crystal clear: We stand with Israel. We stand with Israel. And we will make sure Israel has what it needs to take care of its citizens, defend itself, and respond to this attack."
    "There is no justification for terrorism. There is no excuse."
    "They use Palestinian civilians as human shields."
    "I told him if the United States experienced what Israel is experiencing, our response would be swift, decisive, and overwhelming."

    Good on him & his speechwriters.
    Oh look, brown people about to get hurt and tehdang gets all horny.

    He just referred to all Palestinians as "terrorists" in the other thread in case someone thinks I'm just joshing about a bigot being a bigot.

  16. #16736
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    "There is no justification for terrorism. There is no excuse."
    Except...you know...when we or our allies are doing it. Then we get to call it "self defense" or "a war on terror."


  17. #16737
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    Except...you know...when we or our allies are doing it. Then we get to call it "self defense" or "a war on terror."

    Usually I'd expect a Democrat to shy away from saying it in a speech, because his allies equivocate on terrorism and won't like it. Biden did not. He didn't do some mumbo jumbo "violence is the cry of the oppressed" or blame Israel for the terrorism. That's a choice to alienate people that want to prevaricate, and I'm glad he made it for this speech.
    "I wish it need not have happened in my time." "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

  18. #16738
    While House Republicans are still arguing with each other and not doing their actual jobs because they can't agree on basic shit, the Biden administration is highlighting a key policy area that we really need to build some regulation around.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/1...ds-ai-00121284

    The Biden administration’s long-awaited executive order on artificial intelligence is expected to leverage the federal government’s vast purchasing power to shape American standards for a technology that has galloped ahead of regulators, according to three people with knowledge of the White House’s deliberations.

    The White House is also expected to lean on the National Institute of Standards and Technology to tighten industry guidelines on testing and evaluating AI systems — provisions that would build on the voluntary commitments on safety, security and trust that the Biden administration extracted from 15 major tech companies this year on AI, the people said.

    Biden’s order is also expected to require cloud computing companies to monitor and track users who might be developing powerful AI systems, two people said. The EO is likely to contain provisions to streamline the recruitment and retention of AI talent from overseas and to boost domestic AI training and education as well, one person said.

    The White House declined to comment on specific provisions in the executive order, which is still being finalized. It is expected to come out in late October.
    Will see how the full EO takes shape, but we need to build some serious regulations and guardrails around AI as it continue to explode in its uses.

  19. #16739
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    39,962
    As we all know, Trump, who was still telling everyone he won the 2020 election, pardoned a bunch of people while walking out the door...almost as if he knew he lost, or something.

    One of them was Philip Esformes. Esformes is the subject of this April 2019 article with the headline

    South Florida Health Care Facility Owner Convicted for Role in Largest Health Care Fraud Scheme Ever Charged by The Department of Justice, Involving $1.3 Billion in Fraudulent Claims

    And that's a dot-gov website, not a clickbait fisher.

    "Okay, I'm curious why we're discussing that conviction by Trump's DoJ in this thread."

    Well Trump did pardon the guy. Eventually. You know, for someone who claimed he wanted to cut down fraud and waste, letting the single biggest fraudster walk on purpose seems like he was lying or something.

    Anyhow, Esformes is making the headlines again. See, WaPo and very likely others are reporting that Esformes was pardoned on all the crimes he was found guilty for.

    But the jury didn't convict him on all charges. And Biden is retrying him on those charges. Because he wasn't pardoned for those.

    Esformes’s reprieve is now in peril, thrust to the center of an extraordinary legal and political collision between two administrations pushing the bounds of executive authority. The Biden Justice Department is seeking to retry him — a move made possible because the jury that convicted him reached no verdict on six counts, including the most serious charge of conspiracy to commit health-care fraud. Because Trump’s clemency order was silent on those charges, prosecutors say they are able to take him back to court.

    At stake is whether the government’s move to reprosecute the architect of one of the largest-ever health-care scams undermines Trump’s decision based on presidential powers laid out in the Constitution and historically considered the last word on a criminal conviction.

    The highly unusual decision to retry a clemency recipient on hung charges has emerged as yet another flash point in the broader battle between the far right, which portrays the Justice Department as an arm of an out-of-control “deep state” opposed to anyone associated with Trump, and law-and-order proponents seeking to defend institutions of democracy against incursions by the former president and his allies. Experts say they know of no precedent for this dispute.
    "This is an outrage! How dare a court proceeding be decided by such a narrow loophole!"

    *ahem*

    "Support the Constitution". Your move.

    “In the annals of American history, no prosecutor has ever tried to reverse a presidential commutation in this manner,” co-wrote Matthew G. Whitaker, who briefly served as acting attorney general under Trump, in a Fox News column. “Does the DOJ have no sense of propriety at all?” tweeted Harmeet Dhillon, a Republican National Committee official from California, whose law firm has represented Trump.

    But some former prosecutors say a retrial is a chance to correct a grievous mistake in which Trump bypassed long-standing protocols to grant clemency to a corrupt nursing home executive. If the Justice Department succeeds, Esformes could be sent back to prison, undoing Trump’s executive order that had made him a free man.

    “It’s an opportunity for justice,” said Paul Pelletier, a former federal prosecutor for 27 years who led the agency’s fraud section before it criminally charged Esformes. “We use the law to hold people accountable as best as we can.”

    Attorney General William P. Barr advocated for Esformes’s release, according to a previously unreported memo to Trump from three former top Justice Department officials lobbying on the health-care mogul’s behalf. Esformes’s commutation — issued while thousands of other inmates who had formally requested clemency were waiting for a decision — infuriated prosecutors who had worked for years to build the case and set the stage for a retrial, according to two people familiar with the case who spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe internal discussions.
    That bolded is for the people who keep reminding me Barr is still on their shitlist. Good. He should be.

  20. #16740
    Quote Originally Posted by tehdang View Post
    Usually I'd expect a Democrat to shy away from saying it in a speech, because his allies equivocate on terrorism and won't like it. Biden did not. He didn't do some mumbo jumbo "violence is the cry of the oppressed" or blame Israel for the terrorism. That's a choice to alienate people that want to prevaricate, and I'm glad he made it for this speech.
    There are times that Biden emerges in a way that makes it clear and obvious why he wound up being the consensus choice for Democrats and why he was able to pick up quite a bit of moderate support. This is one of those - he's still got the fairly old school mentality on these things and is capable of delivering a speech that offers moral clarity. He'll alienate some of the more extreme anti-colonialist types, but no one really gives a shit about those people anyway.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •