Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[s_bushido]

Trump and the Republicans are even worse though, talking about putting US troops in Gaza to help the IDF, bombing Iran, and limiting speech criticizing Israel.

Yes, but if Dem voters stay home because their party is showing its ass over this Israel garbage, it doesn't really matter how much worse the GOP would be.

[Endus]

Yes, but if Dem voters stay home because their party is showing its ass over this Israel garbage, it doesn't really matter how much worse the GOP would be.

More people need to realize that American elections are 1000% not about which party people will vote for. That's entirely predetermined, both by prejudice/bias and by the massive divide between the parties on some social issues.

What actually decides elections is voter turnout for those parties. If Democrats are all "eh, fuck it", you get 2016. When they're all "For the love of bacon we need to fuckin' win this", you get 2020. Same goes the other way; Trump's turnout was incredibly high in 2020 too, because Republicans made the same push; they're just losing demographically.

Getting your own base to go "eh, fuck it" is how you lose elections. Not whether you have cross-party appeal. That's essentially a myth.

[tehdang]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/dem...ot-2023-11-07/



This is so fuckin weird to me.

Don't get me wrong I get it - Biden is an old guy and a lot of us are justifiably tired of people who should be retiring in Palm Beach (well, maybe elsewhere) running the country.

But at the same time it's wild how much folks don't like Joe despite really liking a lot of the policies he's pushed and the legislation that Democrats passed.

Old guys have a tough time getting behind a podium and taking credit for their policies and explaining all the ways they've helped people. Andrea's probably heard one of them, and come away more impacted by his rambling, mumbling, and chewing of his words. Look back in your personal life to times where the message content was hindered or overshadowed by the person speaking it.

I'd argue that Biden's running on Team Biden the brand.

[Kaleredar]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/dem...ot-2023-11-07/



This is so fuckin weird to me.

Don't get me wrong I get it - Biden is an old guy and a lot of us are justifiably tired of people who should be retiring in Palm Beach (well, maybe elsewhere) running the country.

But at the same time it's wild how much folks don't like Joe despite really liking a lot of the policies he's pushed and the legislation that Democrats passed.

Correct me if I’m wrong but nobody was too “jazzed” about Biden going into the 2020 election. But they sure were jazzed about trump not being president.

[Teriz]

More people need to realize that American elections are 1000% not about which party people will vote for. That's entirely predetermined, both by prejudice/bias and by the massive divide between the parties on some social issues.

What actually decides elections is voter turnout for those parties. If Democrats are all "eh, fuck it", you get 2016. When they're all "For the love of bacon we need to fuckin' win this", you get 2020. Same goes the other way; Trump's turnout was incredibly high in 2020 too, because Republicans made the same push; they're just losing demographically.

Getting your own base to go "eh, fuck it" is how you lose elections. Not whether you have cross-party appeal. That's essentially a myth.

The good news is that the GOP are utterly obsessed with making abortion illegal to the point where a zygote has more rights than a girl or a woman. Their base's obsession with obliterating abortion rights has saved the Democrat's collective asses for multiple election cycles, and will likely do it again in 2024, since Trump is on video bragging about how he ended Roe V Wade, and how he supports a federal abortion ban.

[Draco-Onis]

Correct me if I’m wrong but nobody was too “jazzed” about Biden going into the 2020 election. But they sure were jazzed about trump not being president.

Voting for Biden is like going to a colon exam, no one wants to do it but you have to because of the alternative.

[Breccia]

Voting for Biden is like going to a colon exam, no one wants to do it but you have to because of the alternative.

The alternative is cancer, for those of you who didn't figure that out. Can you imagine willfully voting for cancer?

In other news, the House GOP subpoenas anyone Hunter Biden has ever met, desperately scattershotting and hoping someone will say something they can use.

"Sure, whatever," Hunter Biden is likely responding. "I'll get on that as quickly as Steve Bannon did."

[Edge-]

The alternative is cancer, for those of you who didn't figure that out. Can you imagine willfully voting for cancer?

In other news, the House GOP subpoenas anyone Hunter Biden has ever met, desperately scattershotting and hoping someone will say something they can use.

"Sure, whatever," Hunter Biden is likely responding. "I'll get on that as quickly as Steve Bannon did."

Glad to see that House Republicans, who still don't have a plan for avoiding a government shutdown that's set to happen in a few weeks, are focusing on the real issues.

I mean, their witnesses have thus far been incredibly damaging for their case and the worst they've shown is that Joe is a generous guy who loans money to his family, who repay him in full, while he's a private citizen and not in public office.

Oh, and that he loves his son unconditionally and supports him through his struggles with drug addiction etc. while expecting that he be held accountable for his actions. How dreadful.

[The Stormbringer]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/dem...ot-2023-11-07/

This is so fuckin weird to me.

Don't get me wrong I get it - Biden is an old guy and a lot of us are justifiably tired of people who should be retiring in Palm Beach (well, maybe elsewhere) running the country.

But at the same time it's wild how much folks don't like Joe despite really liking a lot of the policies he's pushed and the legislation that Democrats passed.

I think a lot of people are justifiably worried he's gonna just keel over, or go completely senile, or will act like many older people do and ignore everything he's told by younger folk and stick to his guns.

I think all of that's doubtful, but that's the sentiment I've seen.

[Breccia]

I think a lot of people are justifiably worried he's gonna just keel over, or go completely senile, or will act like many older people do and ignore everything he's told by younger folk and stick to his guns.

Oddly enough, "a lot of people" will vote for Trump, who has done all three of these things in public already. Remember the time he caught COVID and nearly died?

[The Stormbringer]

Oddly enough, "a lot of people" will vote for Trump, who has done all three of these things in public already. Remember the time he caught COVID and nearly died?

I do remember that, it was extremely disappointing.

[Edge-]

I think a lot of people are justifiably worried he's gonna just keel over, or go completely senile, or will act like many older people do and ignore everything he's told by younger folk and stick to his guns.

I think all of that's doubtful, but that's the sentiment I've seen.

You're gonna have to qualify the bolded for me. Dude still goes on regular bike rides, which is not something someone in poor health who might die at any time can do.

Completely senile? Is he senile now?

Ignore what he's told by younger people because he's old? Because Joe hasn't radically changed his positions compared to his Senate days already?

This is weird to me. I get it, he's an old guy who sometimes does the old man walk and he has a stutter that rears its head from time to time. I wish we had someone a big younger and fuller of vigor and all, but honestly all three of your primary concerns seem fairly baseless given available evidence and reality.

[Malkiah]

This is weird to me. I get it, he's an old guy who sometimes does the old man walk and he has a stutter that rears its head from time to time. I wish we had someone a big younger and fuller of vigor and all, but honestly all three of your primary concerns seem fairly baseless given available evidence and reality.

yeah the narrative about biden in the US for the last 3 years has been utterly baffling.

look i'm no shill for the democrats and i'm certainly no fan of biden when taking into account the entirety of his political career, but the objective truth is that in terms of actual implemented policy, as well as the weird thing with US presidential administrations where they kind of set the tone for the cultural zeitgeist, this is far and away the most progressive and most left-facing we've had in this country since... jesus, at least the carter administration? and while carter was gentle and kind-uncle about it he was also a pussy and completely broke the spine of the left in the US so probably would need to go further back than that.
so really the last time we had a president who strongly spoke out for ANY sort of left/liberal ideology (even if it was only lip service) was probably fucking LBJ or something.
and yet, biden gets shat on nonstop by every corner of the public discourse, even by (and perhaps especially by) the more self-proclaimed left sides of the spectrum.

personally i don't care if he's 130 and incoherent, because i find the hero-worship mentality of the president in the US kind of disgusting and i don't think that one person should be a figurehead for the entire country as a society in the first place, i only care that when he's trotted out in front of the cameras he's not being a socially regressive fascist asscunt.
which btw biden WAS (a socially regressive asscunt) for most of the last 50 years, so it's been rather interesting to see him being not-that.
if he's senile and being lead around like a puppet, the puppeteers controlling him seem a decent sort so i'm content to let them keep doing it.

biden's brain could be a hollowed out honeydew melon filled with cottage cheese and he would still be better for the advancement of civilization than any elected republican that has held office since nixon.

[The Stormbringer]

You're gonna have to qualify the bolded for me. Dude still goes on regular bike rides, which is not something someone in poor health who might die at any time can do.

Completely senile? Is he senile now?

Ignore what he's told by younger people because he's old? Because Joe hasn't radically changed his positions compared to his Senate days already?

This is weird to me. I get it, he's an old guy who sometimes does the old man walk and he has a stutter that rears its head from time to time. I wish we had someone a big younger and fuller of vigor and all, but honestly all three of your primary concerns seem fairly baseless given available evidence and reality.

They ain't my primary concerns, I don't think that's gonna happen, as I said it is all doubtful. Given how Trump is still trucking along and clearly takes worse care of himself, Joe will be fine.

As to justifiable, I don't mean it in any hardcore definition, but it's understandable why people would be concerned. Better word than justifiable, I guess.

[Edge-]

if he's senile and being lead around like a puppet, the puppeteers controlling him seem a decent sort so i'm content to let them keep doing it.

Yep. And even then he's still clearly got a few in the chamber still, his off-script SOTU comments and trolling of Republicans are an example of that. Every now and then he comes out with a real off the cuff zinger to the press, too.

- - - Updated - - -

They ain't my primary concerns, I don't think that's gonna happen, as I said it is all doubtful. Given how Trump is still trucking along and clearly takes worse care of himself, Joe will be fine.

As to justifiable, I don't mean it in any hardcore definition, but it's understandable why people would be concerned. Better word than justifiable, I guess.

I interpreted you calling them "justifiable" as viewing that they held some real weight, my mistake on misinterpreting.

"Understandable" works if folks are getting their news from broadcast TV and shit, I'm increasingly disappointed and impressed at how the overall quality of those news channels continues to sink further and further. I'm not shocked because this is the necessary end of for-profit media and how they must operate and all, but I'll still gripe about it.

[Draco-Onis]

You're gonna have to qualify the bolded for me. Dude still goes on regular bike rides, which is not something someone in poor health who might die at any time can do.

Completely senile? Is he senile now?

Ignore what he's told by younger people because he's old? Because Joe hasn't radically changed his positions compared to his Senate days already?

This is weird to me. I get it, he's an old guy who sometimes does the old man walk and he has a stutter that rears its head from time to time. I wish we had someone a big younger and fuller of vigor and all, but honestly all three of your primary concerns seem fairly baseless given available evidence and reality.

I think the main problem with Biden isn't really his age but expectations, no one was clamoring for two terms of Joe Biden heck he wouldn't have gotten one without Trump. The hope was that after Trump got defeated he would fade into obscurity and the threat would be gone then Joe would step down after one term. Frankly democrats are just tired of voting for lesser than two evils, Trump has a cult and being a democrat is like being a fan for a bad sports team. Democrats are very bad at making people feel that they are fighting for them or winning. At the base level that's what democrats have always lacked the feeling that they are winning, it feels like you are always eating crow.

[Malkiah]

Frankly democrats are just tired of voting for lesser than two evils

which is ironic, given that biden through this first term has been the least "lesser of two evils" that we've had in this country in probably 60+ years.

Democrats are very bad at making people feel that they are fighting for them or winning. At the base level that's what democrats have always lacked the feeling that they are winning, it feels like you are always eating crow.

well i mean... two things:
1. i think it says a lot about the US population if they need to be told that they're winning when they're winning.
2. the democrats are a staid conservative party - and i don't mean that as an insult, i think the dems are about the most perfect model of a conservative party any country could ever hope for, they are everything a conservative party should be.
but, they ARE a conservative party and so excitement and "winning" isn't built into the formula.
a proper respectable conservative party - one that is hesitant to embrace change but willing to face problems head on and implement real solutions but in a reserved way that tries to not rock the boat - isn't sexy or thrilling.

IMO american voters need to wake the fuck up and realize that they have the option of a good and proper conservative party, or a regressive christofascist death cult and those are simply the two options. there are no other choices. there are no other variables.
pick one, or opt out and be done with it.

[Breccia]

Today, we honor the story of our veterans—the story of our nation at its best.

On Veterans Day, let's recommit to fulfilling our one sacred obligation as a nation: to prepare those we send into harm's way and care for them and their families when they come home.

-- President Joe Biden

[Odinfrost]

-- President Joe Biden

Reading this and the former president's statement, it's incredible to see the contrast. This feels warm and welcoming, the other felt fueled by rage and a cry for war

[Nymrohd]

See I absolutely understand the argument that Biden's age is an issue. But Trump is 3,5 years younger. So his age is equally an issue and his health should by all accounts be worse. You can definitely claim that Biden had a solid chance of experiencing dementia in his next term (and dementia can settle rapidly, a friend just had his grandma go from fully functional to needing a caretaker 24/7 in the span of half a year). But so can Trump. There would be an argument if his likely opponent in the elections was anyone else but that's just not the case.