1. #16901
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    Now to be fair, there are 12 charts, I posted 7. Biden isn't doing 100% better than Trump on all accounts. For example, people feel that the economy is worse under Biden, than in Trump's recession, for...some reason. And let's be honest, both inflation and interest rates are higher. But overall, Biden is objectively taking a bite out of Republicans' usual strongest selling point. Trump ruined the country's economy, Biden is repairing the damage.
    The economy looks good on paper. In fact, for the ones that are already established - own homes & invested in the market - it is very good. I saw a study which showed that net worth for homeowners went up a lot.

    However, if you are trying to buy your first home, the time has never been worst. The same with people that rent and have been living on the border of being homeless. The last two years have been downright horrible.

    U.S. homelessness up 12 percent to highest reported level as rents soar and pandemic aid lapses

    Not Biden's fault. But he is the President, so he got the flak.

  2. #16902
    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post

    Now to be fair, there are 12 charts, I posted 7. Biden isn't doing 100% better than Trump on all accounts. For example, people feel that the economy is worse under Biden, than in Trump's recession, for...some reason. And let's be honest, both inflation and interest rates are higher. But overall, Biden is objectively taking a bite out of Republicans' usual strongest selling point. Trump ruined the country's economy, Biden is repairing the damage.

    Of course, FOX News had a hard time explaining this. Just kidding. FOX News simply cherry-picked and lied by omission. But that video I just linked has multiple FOX News video clips and I'm taking a CNN point for each.
    In a way

    My complicated take as always is that average American is hurting. No matter if you can get a job and wages slightly up. Americans still can't grasp why most of the inflation happened due to corporate greed and late stage capitalism on supply chain and monopolies.

    For some reason like many things like military love, Republicans get a pass that they are some economic savior for some reason. Best of all we all joke that Republicans wreck the economy and Democrats repair it. At least over the past 30 years.

    So after 2008 the economy was at the worst wreck and while we can say Obama should have done more the economy. My big critique here was Obama was the classical Neo-Lib and really just let the economy recover on its own, instead of Left leaning policies. If you remember Obama would get hammered on the economy and especially in 2012 was his biggest weakness going into the election.

    We then all understand that Trump inherited a very strong economy and give this mofo credit like any grifter he took ALL the credit. Again, Obama was a wuss or just not as good as Obama. So COVID happened and economy tanked, but somehow not Trump's fault in the big picture. Biden got a mess and this is me but I still criticize him for not doing enough and left leaning or BIG Dem policies.

    So we get this detachment of forget the 40 percent that just eat the slop, the 10-20 percent who say "I was better off when Trump was in office". It's just so hard to get to these people. I will still close out that Dems have done a pretty bad job, imo cause they generally just do Neo-Lib crap. A hands off approach where you can say they are lucky in many ways it course corrected without a recession.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  3. #16903
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    39,815
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Not Biden's fault. But he is the President, so he got the flak.
    That happens a lot, fairly and unfairly.

  4. #16904
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The economy looks good on paper. In fact, for the ones that are already established - own homes & invested in the market - it is very good. I saw a study which showed that net worth for homeowners went up a lot.

    However, if you are trying to buy your first home, the time has never been worst. The same with people that rent and have been living on the border of being homeless. The last two years have been downright horrible.

    U.S. homelessness up 12 percent to highest reported level as rents soar and pandemic aid lapses

    Not Biden's fault. But he is the President, so he got the flak.
    rents would fall so much if we got rid of alot of city level policies preventing apartments from being built, there is high demand and developers want to build but city councils and nimbys wont let them.

  5. #16905
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    78,617
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    rents would fall so much if we got rid of alot of city level policies preventing apartments from being built, there is high demand and developers want to build but city councils and nimbys wont let them.
    There's two aspects to that.

    Developers generally want to build single-family homes. It's the biggest bang for the investment buck. Building tall costs more, and pays less in comparison. They're the ones largely pushing for suburban sprawl; city planners have no inherent reason to desire sprawl, since suburbs generally don't even pay for their servicing in property tax; the income's just too low to cover the low-density depth of service needed. Plus, suburbanites hate low-rise apartments, because they make nearby homes look cheaper.

    Developers [i]do[i] like high-rises, however. And yes, those are a lot tighter-restricted in terms of planning, but that's because city planners are trying to encourage density, so they want those towers closer to city center, not a random tower in the middle of nowhere. There's generally no real opposition from City Council on that front; they want high-density housing in high-density zoning. These also tend to be higher-ticket apartments, though, so don't really address the root problems of lack of lower-cost housing.

    It's a mess, but developers are the bigger issue, generally. They do NOT want to build affordable housing; it's hard to make a decent income off it. Usually, the city has to require a certain percentage of such to approve a new development plan, precisely because if they don't, it's all single-family homes.


  6. #16906
    Quote Originally Posted by s_bushido View Post
    But if you cut the giant spikes out of those graphs, the takeaway seems to be the Biden administration has mostly just continued whatever trends were in place during Trump's.
    With the added caveat that, having only been 1 term, most of the "trends" seen during the Trump administration was basically just them riding the momentum the Obama administration had spent the previous 8 years building.

  7. #16907
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    rents would fall so much if we got rid of alot of city level policies preventing apartments from being built, there is high demand and developers want to build but city councils and nimbys wont let them.
    Would developers build what is needed or would they build what gives them the best margins though? What is needed is DIFFERENT city level policies, not the removal of basic planning regulations.
    And there can be federal level policies that also help. Punitive taxation for holding land as an investment asset and significant limitations on short term rentals would both open the market by forcing a lot more property to be available for long term rentals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Surfd View Post
    With the added caveat that, having only been 1 term, most of the "trends" seen during the Trump administration was basically just them riding the momentum the Obama administration had spent the previous 8 years building.
    That is one possible interpretation. The other is that the relatively conservative level of policy possible in US economic governance due to the constant need for consensus inherent in the political system means that politics only have a minor effect on the economy which largely moves according to how corporations and global events guide it.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2024-01-09 at 09:13 AM.

  8. #16908
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Would developers build what is needed or would they build what gives them the best margins though? What is needed is DIFFERENT city level policies, not the removal of basic planning regulations.
    And there can be federal level policies that also help. Punitive taxation for holding land as an investment asset and significant limitations on short term rentals would both open the market by forcing a lot more property to be available for long term rentals.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That is one possible interpretation. The other is that the relatively conservative level of policy possible in US economic governance due to the constant need for consensus inherent in the political system means that politics only have a minor effect on the economy which largely moves according to how corporations and global events guide it.
    luxury high rises still help middle and low income because if wealthy people purchase those they wont then buy out middle class and low income properties which is whats happening, its unfortunate to say but texas is really beating us when it comes to that because they are more laiez faire in the housing market making them more affordable than cali

    cali had an explosion of wealth ( good) but instead of building new housing for the influx of wealthier workers they bought out all the old houses=
    Last edited by arandomuser; 2024-01-09 at 05:11 PM.

  9. #16909
    So, lets see. The GOP in various states want to get revenge because Colorado and Maine by taking Biden off of their ballots in some states. When asked what Biden has done to do that with specifics, they start to sound like Porky Pig not being able to get a word out.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...e73b7656&ei=59

    'Give me some specifics': Missouri Republican unable to back up Biden allegation during testy interview

    The U.S. Supreme Court has agreed to review former President Donald Trump's challenge to a recent decision by the Colorado Supreme Court, which barred Trump from the state's presidential ballot based on Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution's 14th Amendment. Under Section 3, an "officer" who has engaged in "insurrection" is ineligible to run for certain government positions.

    Some pro-Trump Republicans have been arguing that if Trump's foes can remove him from state ballots, the same thing can be done to President Joe Biden.

    During a Monday, January 8 appearance on CNN, Missouri Secretary of State Jay Ashcroft — a far-right Republican — threatened to remove Biden from the state's ballot. And Ashcroft's conversation with CNN's Boris Sanchez grew testy when Sanchez challenged his argument for a possible Biden removal.

    Sanchez asked Ashcroft, "What would then be your justification for removing Joe Biden from the ballot in Missouri? Has he engaged, in your mind, in some kind of insurrection?"

    Ashcroft responded, "Um, there have been allegations that he's engaged in insurrection."

    But Sanchez demanded specifics, telling the Missouri secretary of state, "You can't stay something like that and not back it up…. What did Joe Biden do, in your mind, that equates insurrection? What allegations are you taking about?"

    Ashcroft, sounding frustrated, was unable to back up his claim, telling Sanchez, "I have, I have seen allegations from the lieutenant governor of Texas that has said that the Joe Biden has, uh, uh, been part of insurrection or rebellion."

    Sanchez, however, demanded, "If you're going to make the claim, give me some specifics." And Ashcroft was unable to provide any.

  10. #16910
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Resident of Emerald City
    Posts
    10,926
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    So, lets see. The GOP in various states want to get revenge because Colorado and Maine by taking Biden off of their ballots in some states. When asked what Biden has done to do that with specifics, they start to sound like Porky Pig not being able to get a word out.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...e73b7656&ei=59
    To be fair that's Republican politicians and their followers in a nutshell. If you question why they are upset at Biden or really any Democrat they'll go off on some weird tangent completely unrelated to the topic or lie outright.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

    I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)

  11. #16911
    Quote Originally Posted by gondrin View Post
    So, lets see. The GOP in various states want to get revenge because Colorado and Maine by taking Biden off of their ballots in some states. When asked what Biden has done to do that with specifics, they start to sound like Porky Pig not being able to get a word out.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...e73b7656&ei=59
    Honestly one of the most infuriating interviews/exchanges to watch. There are tens of millions of Americans with zero legal training or education that are more qualified to be Secretary of State of Missouri than that individual with lukewarm IQ.

    This is why we moved away from single-core processors and to multi-core, multi-threaded chips and shit. You can literally see this man struggling to process in real time because he's still rocking a single compute core in the 'ol brainbox.

  12. #16912
    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    luxury high rises still help middle and low income because if wealthy people purchase those they wont then buy out middle class and low income properties which is whats happening, its unfortunate to say but texas is really beating us when it comes to that because they are more laiez faire in the housing market making them more affordable than cali

    cali had an explosion of wealth ( good) but instead of building new housing for the influx of wealthier workers they bought out all the old houses=
    Even Texas is not keeping up. After decades of seeing the state homeless number went down, it went up by 13% in 2021 & 2022. The same with Florida. Homelessness in Florida went down 30% between 2008 and 2020, then shot up almost 18% in 2021 and 2022. Both were over the nation's average of 12%. California saw 5% increase during the same time period.

    I have mixed feelings about high-rise apartments. I would not want to live in one. Apparently, a lot of people felt the same way. I use the picture of San Francisco below to illustrate. The high-rise side is experiencing a decline. Lots of empty apartments and condos. Office occupancy of 36%. Storefronts and malls closing. Light foot traffic. On weekends, it felt abandoned. The 3 - 4 story side is booming. Buyers are fighting for homes. Office space vacancy of 2% or less. Heavy foot traffic all time of the day and seven days a week. Businesses are thriving. Stonestown Galleria is the only mall in San Francisco that is prospering and expanding. The food court is a foodie heaven. It has Marugame Udon, Gram Cafe, Yifang Taiwan Fruit Tea and Kura Revolving Sushi Bar. Many Asian chain restaurants that you don't see in other malls across the US. No Olive Garden. No Macy's. However, lots and lots of restaurants. People actually go to the mall not to shop, but to eat. At least we do.

    Last edited by Rasulis; 2024-01-09 at 07:03 PM.

  13. #16913
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,243
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The pandemic absolutely constitutes a structural break for any data involving the economy so comparing trends before and after the break is not valid analysis.
    You can ofc argue against the way Trump handled the events that created a structural break in the data but again that is hard to do because the US itself doesn't really have peers; most peer economies are just much smaller (simply by virtue of population and land)

    I am not saying I don't believe he fucked things up. Just saying that you are not going to get something conclusive with just graphs. Also most voters likely never took an econometrics class (or even know what the word means) so don't know what a structural break is.
    I also wanna point out that there’s a not insignificant possibility that a lot of the jobs data is, you know, fake - given the increasing problem of fraudulent job listings.

    And there’s the fact that either way you spin it the economy is still hella anemic. Wealth inequality and monopolization of the market are still rising while the cost of living continues to increase.

    Things are not going to make any permanent improvement until a few heads come off, fiscally speaking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #16914
    https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1745470711148261673

    Dank Robinette, pointing out that Donald is already Herbert Hoover having lost jobs during his term.

    I appreciate the contrast of Biden speaking softly and carrying a big economic stick to Donald's loud and boisterously delivered hopes of an economic crash to hurt Biden.

  15. #16915
    https://thehill.com/homenews/4408440...s-on-highways/

    It’s no joke. Humorous and quirky messages on electronic signs will soon disappear from highways and freeways across the country.

    The U.S. Federal Highway Administration has given states two years to implement all the changes outlined in its new 1,100-page manual released last month, including rules that spells out how signs and other traffic control devices are regulated.

    Administration officials said overhead electronic signs with obscure meanings, references to pop culture or those intended to be funny will be banned in 2026 because they can be misunderstood or distracting to drivers.

    The agency, which is part of the U.S. Department of Transportation, said signs should be “simple, direct, brief, legible and clear” and only be used for important information such as warning drivers of crashes ahead, adverse weather conditions and traffic delays. Seatbelt reminders and warnings about the dangers of speeding or driving impaired are also allowed.

    Among those that will be disappearing are messages such as “Use Yah Blinkah” in Massachusetts; “Visiting in-laws? Slow down, get there late,” from Ohio; “Don’t drive Star Spangled Hammered,” from Pennsylvania; “Hocus pocus, drive with focus” from New Jersey; and “Hands on the wheel, not your meal” from Arizona.
    Every one of those warnings/reminders is a certified banger, and is transparently crystal clear in its message while being humorous enough to get noticed.

    This is one example where I'll argue federal overreach is threatening a wonderful piece of regional "culture". Damn you, Dank Robinette!

  16. #16916
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,243
    Dunno why they’re going after those first rather than putting brightness regulations on LED headlights lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  17. #16917
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Dunno why they’re going after those first rather than putting brightness regulations on LED headlights lol.
    Real talk, this is why I do my best not to drive at night. Between my astigmatism, a probably slightly outdated prescription, and the fact that I live in a wealthier area (wish I was rich too but oh well) where everyone drives modern cars, with a lot of electric SUV's/Rivian trucks and shit that all SEEM TO AUTOMATICALLY FUCKIN TURN THE BRIGHTS ON AND OFF AND BLIND YOU WITH THE POWER OF 1,000 SUNS BEFORE THE COMPUTER DIMS THE LED'S TO ONLY 50 SUNS. I swear headlights are getting angled higher and higher too, fuckin every shitty modern car's lights are right in my fuckin eyes. I hate having to move my head because the fucking car behind me has blinding LED's reflecting in my side mirrors.

    I've straight up pulled over to let cars pass me when that shit happens. This is an actual problem. Unless you're in some shitty lifted truck or gigantic fucking SUV that you use to go to the grocery store and home and occasionally take your single child to their soccer game because why have a car that makes sense when you could overpay for some gigantic monstrosity that everyone else on the road has to suffer?

    I have some thoughts on this topic. Just a few.

  18. #16918
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Real talk, this is why I do my best not to drive at night. Between my astigmatism, a probably slightly outdated prescription, and the fact that I live in a wealthier area (wish I was rich too but oh well) where everyone drives modern cars, with a lot of electric SUV's/Rivian trucks and shit that all SEEM TO AUTOMATICALLY FUCKIN TURN THE BRIGHTS ON AND OFF AND BLIND YOU WITH THE POWER OF 1,000 SUNS BEFORE THE COMPUTER DIMS THE LED'S TO ONLY 50 SUNS. I swear headlights are getting angled higher and higher too, fuckin every shitty modern car's lights are right in my fuckin eyes. I hate having to move my head because the fucking car behind me has blinding LED's reflecting in my side mirrors.

    I've straight up pulled over to let cars pass me when that shit happens. This is an actual problem. Unless you're in some shitty lifted truck or gigantic fucking SUV that you use to go to the grocery store and home and occasionally take your single child to their soccer game because why have a car that makes sense when you could overpay for some gigantic monstrosity that everyone else on the road has to suffer?

    I have some thoughts on this topic. Just a few.
    Amen to that. I hate driving or even walking outside because 75-90% of all cars are BLINDING

  19. #16919
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    phasing...
    Posts
    25,466
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post

    I have mixed feelings about high-rise apartments. I would not want to live in one. Apparently, a lot of people felt the same way. I use the picture of San Francisco below to illustrate. The high-rise side is experiencing a decline.
    Well, that's part of the issue. Even if High-rise apartments are "better" for any number of technical or city-planning reasons... the ultimate question is do people want to live in them? If people would rather live in a house, then houses will be the prime commodity, as will the land that they sit on. And as I said, one can tell people that they should want to live in an apartment because it's better land utilization, doesn't create suburban sprawl, yadda yadda yadda, but... at the end of the day, I'd still say most people's "dream," at least in America, is to own a home. That's just the cultural perception.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  20. #16920
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    In the state of Denial.
    Posts
    27,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Well, that's part of the issue. Even if High-rise apartments are "better" for any number of technical or city-planning reasons... the ultimate question is do people want to live in them? If people would rather live in a house, then houses will be the prime commodity, as will the land that they sit on. And as I said, one can tell people that they should want to live in an apartment because it's better land utilization, doesn't create suburban sprawl, yadda yadda yadda, but... at the end of the day, I'd still say most people's "dream," at least in America, is to own a home. That's just the cultural perception.
    A lot of people who talk big about the benefits of apartments and high-rises really ignore this. Whenever I watch videos about urban planning, they always proceed in the same manner:
    Suburbs bad.
    Top-down high-rise developments bad.
    Land use bad.
    People should live in apartments!

    There's not really a whole lot being done to attract people to apartments, and there's an awful lot that overlook just how shitty neighbors the average American is. Anyone who's lived in apartment, a dorm, a townhome or other dense living space can probably tell you any number of horror stories about obnoxious, noisy, dirty, or downright stupid neighbors. And I'm not even talking about violent crime. I'm talking about people who want to install a ceiling fan and drill into your floor. People who don't properly clean their tub and it floods your apartment. People who crank up the volume through paper-thin walls because we don't have standards that require the walls to be sufficiently insulated between units.

    And the solution is always to limit who can live there, to limit what they can do there, and the restrictions and exclusivity drive away consumers. People who view homeownership as independence and responsibility, not being treated like children, not being forced to pay high repair costs for simple fixes you can do yourself. Not having to deal with nosy first-floor neighbors who think they're the king of the condo. To not deal with some corporate "portfolio manager" whose primary motivation is generating profit for some hedge fund than ensuring everyone living there is happy and their building is in good shape.

    I bought a house to NOT deal with the shit I had to put up when I lived in apartments.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •