1. #16921
    Biden's support dwindles month after month.

    Does he get the Walter Mondale treatment in November?


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...ng-biden-poll/

  2. #16922
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Well, that's part of the issue. Even if High-rise apartments are "better" for any number of technical or city-planning reasons... the ultimate question is do people want to live in them? If people would rather live in a house, then houses will be the prime commodity, as will the land that they sit on. And as I said, one can tell people that they should want to live in an apartment because it's better land utilization, doesn't create suburban sprawl, yadda yadda yadda, but... at the end of the day, I'd still say most people's "dream," at least in America, is to own a home. That's just the cultural perception.
    The biggest part of the problem is we still build apartments and even condos mostly to be shitty-ass housing. You should be able to get apartments and condos that are 4 beds, 3 baths and possibly two floors. Like, commonly. Instead, it's mostly topping out at 3-bedroom setups. You can have gorgeous apartments that are great for families. You've just gotta build them.

    There's even tons of selling points. Better views! No lawncare/snow clearing! In-building services! If your place is fancy enough to have a front doorman or has specialized package mailboxes, package deliveries can be safe from porch pirates!


  3. #16923
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    The biggest part of the problem is we still build apartments and even condos mostly to be shitty-ass housing. You should be able to get apartments and condos that are 4 beds, 3 baths and possibly two floors. Like, commonly. Instead, it's mostly topping out at 3-bedroom setups. You can have gorgeous apartments that are great for families. You've just gotta build them.

    There's even tons of selling points. Better views! No lawncare/snow clearing! In-building services! If your place is fancy enough to have a front doorman or has specialized package mailboxes, package deliveries can be safe from porch pirates!
    I don't think the "do I want to live in a house or do I want to live in an apartment?" is a question that most people find they're asking themselves. For the most part, you live in an apartment if you can't afford a house, or if no houses are available to live in. In that sense, apartments aren't competing with houses in any realistic sense, so there's nothing incentivizing apartments to be more appealing than houses would be.

    There's no reason for the apartment complexes, or rather, whatever broad land baron corporations that own them, to go above and beyond in paying out to provide amenities and broad floor plans so long as a certain income range or geographical area is basically beholden to choosing one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Biden's support dwindles month after month.

    Does he get the Walter Mondale treatment in November?


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...ng-biden-poll/
    What's unintentionally hilarious about what you just posted is that, according to the polls, Trump has the lowest approval of any GOP candidate among a general audience.

    But guess who the GOP candidate is going to be?
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2024-01-16 at 05:53 AM.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #16924
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I don't think the "do I want to live in a house or do I want to live in an apartment?" is a question that most people find they're asking themselves. For the most part, you live in an apartment if you can't afford a house, or if no houses are available to live in. In that sense, apartments aren't competing with houses in any realistic sense, so there's nothing incentivizing apartments to be more appealing than houses would be.
    Yes, but the reason it's laid out that way is that apartments generally suck. If you could get an apartment with better living space and amenities than a similarly-sized and -priced single-family home, you'd see a lot more people opting for the apartment, I think.

    My current home's a 5 bed, 3.5 baths place. 2 office spaces in "bedrooms" that aren't being used that way. If I look in Ottawa on a major listings site for any condos or apartments with 4+ beds and 3+ baths, there's nothing. Literally not one listing. Add houses, 139 listings (this is just for rentals). If I check a real estate site for the same, for purchase, there's only two condos listed. The cheaper of the two is $2.8 million. Houses with the same start at around $600k. And there's 429 listed.

    If you drop it down to 3 bedrooms and 2.5 baths, there's a bunch of both, and they both start around $300k. That's the rough point where there's a massive break and the only apartment/condo options are luxury ones.

    I'd much rather live in a high-rise. I don't have any interest in lawn or garden care or snow clearing. It's just not available at the size I need anywhere close to the price ranges that I can get that in a single-family home.


  5. #16925
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    Biden's support dwindles month after month.

    Does he get the Walter Mondale treatment in November?


    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaig...ng-biden-poll/
    Remember when you spent so much time during the 2022 midterm elections predicting a huge red wave because of what the polls kept showing? Remember how that turned out for you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    A lot left to be called but it's clear my wave prediction was wrong.

    I'm here, have at me.
    I mean if you keep predicting huge Democrat losses each and every election I guess you'll have to be right eventually, but so far your predictions have been off since the 2018 midterm elections, we'll have to see if this is the year that you'll finally be right.
    Formerly CrimsonKing

  6. #16926
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    I bought a house to NOT deal with the shit I had to put up when I lived in apartments.
    If I ever get the money/income, I'll do the same.

  7. #16927
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Well, that's part of the issue. Even if High-rise apartments are "better" for any number of technical or city-planning reasons... the ultimate question is do people want to live in them?
    It's comparison shopping. In Budapest, where I live, the choices basically come down to 1) 19th-century low-rise buildings in the inner city 2) Soviet-style high-rise apartment blocks further out 3) houses in the suburbs or the hills. In that context, I'm quite happy to live in an apartment block because while some aspects of the construction were shoddy, they can be (and mostly have been) remedied, the building is structurally sound and maintenance access to utilities was actually an important design aspect. Also I get a 9th-floor view of sunrise skies. In contrast, old buildings can be fancy if they have been maintained but are often dilapidated and working on utilities involves dismantling some of the walls. Single-unit houses are fine but they are out in the boonies and/or expensive as fuck.

    Afterthought: Single-unit houses cost more to heat, proportionally, because you are losing heat in all directions. Apartment blocks are more heat-efficient.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Anyone who's lived in apartment, a dorm, a townhome or other dense living space can probably tell you any number of horror stories about obnoxious, noisy, dirty, or downright stupid neighbors.

    Our deterrence against noisy neighbours is called Uncle Lou. He's pushing 90 but he stands in the hallway shouting until people stop with the noise.
    Last edited by Flarelaine; 2024-01-16 at 03:19 PM.

  8. #16928
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Well, that's part of the issue. Even if High-rise apartments are "better" for any number of technical or city-planning reasons... the ultimate question is do people want to live in them? If people would rather live in a house, then houses will be the prime commodity, as will the land that they sit on. And as I said, one can tell people that they should want to live in an apartment because it's better land utilization, doesn't create suburban sprawl, yadda yadda yadda, but... at the end of the day, I'd still say most people's "dream," at least in America, is to own a home. That's just the cultural perception.
    Only 8 of my 42 years have I lived in an actual house. 34 years in Apartments.

    I am sooo tired of hearing the noises of other people on the other side of my walls, ceiling, or floor. Especially the sound of children stomping and screaming. I've been working my butt off to save for a house so I can be rid of sharing the same building with other people. Some really like that sort of thing, but it would be very hard to convince me to ever move into another apartment once I have access to a house.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  9. #16929
    What the heck, I might as well join in the derailment...

    I fucking hate apartments in their current ubiquitous form. The noise pollution alone is terrible. This is my number one issue and a constant strain on my mental health; hell is other people. "Stupid neighbors" wouldn't be as big a problem except, you know, when one of them tries to have a barbecue on their balcony or do some other stupid shit that means their error could cost the homes--or lives--of everyone else in the building. If you enjoy gardening good luck with that when you live in an apartment. Sure, you can chuck some measly pots out on the balcony if you have a little space and if you have some money you can try your hand at hydroponics--but it's not the same in the least.

    Could these and all of the other problems be solved in future apartment buildings? Sure. They could. Will they? No, they absolutely won't be, because that costs money and I am not so blind an optimist I see capitalism dying off. If we lived in some social utopia apartments wouldn't be an issue. But we don't, and they fucking suck for the most part.

    So, we done with this or is there really no other Biden administration news besides some unreliable polls that concern trolls like to trot out?

  10. #16930
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Well, that's part of the issue. Even if High-rise apartments are "better" for any number of technical or city-planning reasons... the ultimate question is do people want to live in them? If people would rather live in a house, then houses will be the prime commodity, as will the land that they sit on. And as I said, one can tell people that they should want to live in an apartment because it's better land utilization, doesn't create suburban sprawl, yadda yadda yadda, but... at the end of the day, I'd still say most people's "dream," at least in America, is to own a home. That's just the cultural perception.
    And I’d say your only evidence to support that is anecdotal because what Frisco Life Blogger is missing is that the trends he’s reporting exist in a context of a real estate market driven primarily by investment rather than actual residential demand.

    It’s also dishonest for y’all to act like “apartments” automatically translates to sardine tin commie blocks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #16931
    Over 9000! Milchshake's Avatar
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    I was a Biden voter until he didnt suppurt my policy for bespoke-open-floor-plan mass housing. /sssssss

    Look, it's not like rowhousing allows for huge backyard BBQs .... or self suficient farm-to-table gardens.

    But comrades, I think we can get around this. We can invent solutions for those in high density housing. They could be like communal parks for BBQs, or even communal gardens.
    Government Affiliated Snark

  12. #16932
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Well, that's part of the issue. Even if High-rise apartments are "better" for any number of technical or city-planning reasons... the ultimate question is do people want to live in them? If people would rather live in a house, then houses will be the prime commodity, as will the land that they sit on. And as I said, one can tell people that they should want to live in an apartment because it's better land utilization, doesn't create suburban sprawl, yadda yadda yadda, but... at the end of the day, I'd still say most people's "dream," at least in America, is to own a home. That's just the cultural perception.
    Kinda off topic. We don't live in a detached house either. Our home is the upper unit of a duplex. It was an Edwardian mansion (for lack of a better word) that was converted into a duplex in 2000. When they did the seismic retrofit, the foundation was widened from 24" to 72" - 96", so they added another story and it went from 3 stories with basement to 4 stories with basement.

    Our unit is the upper two stories, 2,900 sq. ft., 4 bdr/3 bath/laundry room with shared 4-car garage and shared small backyard. Separate street level entrance. Not the home for somebody that hates stairs. Two flights of stairs from the front foyer to the living area, 3 flights from the garage, two flights from the backyard to the kitchen entrance. Another two flights from the living area to the bedrooms.

    Our HOA fee is $625/month. Which covers water/sewer, trash, earthquake insurance, landscaping, annual cleaning of the outside sidings including all the windows, maintenance of the solar panels + battery system, and regular painting and roof replacement. Our downstair neighbor pays $715/month because they have more square footage. We do get bills from PG&E for $0.

    Been here since the end of 2020, and we and our 4 cats like it a lot.

  13. #16933
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I don't think the "do I want to live in a house or do I want to live in an apartment?" is a question that most people find they're asking themselves. For the most part, you live in an apartment if you can't afford a house, or if no houses are available to live in. In that sense, apartments aren't competing with houses in any realistic sense, so there's nothing incentivizing apartments to be more appealing than houses would be.

    There's no reason for the apartment complexes, or rather, whatever broad land baron corporations that own them, to go above and beyond in paying out to provide amenities and broad floor plans so long as a certain income range or geographical area is basically beholden to choosing one of them.
    With the exception of my parents house in the woods I never want to live in a house. Especially not a house I own and need to take care of.
    Living in an apartment with managed stuff trumps all of that.
    - Lars

  14. #16934
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    And I’d say your only evidence to support that is anecdotal because what Frisco Life Blogger is missing is that the trends he’s reporting exist in a context of a real estate market driven primarily by investment rather than actual residential demand.

    It’s also dishonest for y’all to act like “apartments” automatically translates to sardine tin commie blocks.
    Personally, I think it is depressing to be living among all those tall buildings. All concrete and glass. Almost non-existent greeneries.

    I don't mind condos and town homes, but building wise, I would not live in anything over 6 stories. There are some really nice 3+ bdr units among those towers. I helped my wife with two open houses last year. Only 1 - 2 prospective buyers showed up. Even the brand new high rise on Treasure Island/Yerba Buena Island still has available units. Which would have been unthinkable pre-covid.

  15. #16935
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Personally, I think it is depressing to be living among all those tall buildings. All concrete and glass. Almost non-existent greeneries.
    What a classically American response. "The only possible options are those which currently exist in the United States."

    Y'all are so deeply conditioned to accept mediocrity that you've become functionally incapable of imagination.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2024-01-16 at 06:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #16936
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    What a classically American response. "The only possible options are those which currently exist in the United States."

    Y'all are so deeply conditioned to accept mediocrity that you've become functionally incapable of imagination.
    I am sure it is possible to develop very attractive dense high-rise neighborhoods. However, so far city planners in the US have not done a good job of that. The only reason the high-rise neighborhoods were so popular pre-covid was because all the offices were there. Post-covid, with work-from-home and the tendency to go with smaller offices in more residential districts, those neighborhoods became less attractive.

    I don't want to sideline the thread anymore. If you are interested in discussing mid-rise vs. high-rise, I'll start a new thread.
    Last edited by Rasulis; 2024-01-16 at 07:08 PM.

  17. #16937
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    Personally, I think it is depressing to be living among all those tall buildings. All concrete and glass. Almost non-existent greeneries.
    Doesn't have to be that way, at all.



    Beyond that, roof gardens are becoming more common, and it's not that hard to green up your own balcony space with pots or longer beds.

    And when you compare it to a lot of modern subdivisions;



    No thanks; my soul wants to die looking at this stuff. The "greenery" is gonna be 98% grass, and grass lawns are Satan's invention. They're terrible in pretty much every respect.


  18. #16938
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    What a classically American response. "The only possible options are those which currently exist in the United States."

    Y'all are so deeply conditioned to accept mediocrity that you've become functionally incapable of imagination.
    What incentivizes new builders to build something else?

    The wealthy people who can afford the speculative luxurious, multi-room penthouse apartments live in fancy houses where they pay people to worry about maintenance and gardening and other “problems” with home ownership. So theres no incentive to build luxurious penthouse apartments, especially when they can cram many more single bedroom units into that same space to extract more money for a lot less investment.

    With housing at such a premium, people have less a say in where they live, meaning that builders and management are at less of an incentive to build anything above the bare minimum. Because the bare minimum will still meet capacity.

    And as I said it’s a cultural thing. Most people want to own land in the United States, not pay rent their entire lives. The end game is to own a home, not live above someone and below someone else. And very little coming from apartment complexes incentivizes otherwise, and little is incentivizing the owners and builders of said complexes to do anything different than what they’ve been doing.

    If houses become more numerous and affordable, to where a mortgage payment on a small home and a medium apartment’s rent are roughly equal in price, apartment complexes might actually have to try and compete with them. “Americans should just want to live in high rises, and they should make better high rises to fit this” might be a nice sentiment. But there’s no push from anyone to make that happen.


    But we’re getting off topic.
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  19. #16939
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    It’s also dishonest for y’all to act like “apartments” automatically translates to sardine tin commie blocks.
    "Dishonest?" We're talking from experience. Nothing dishonest about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Milchshake View Post
    But comrades, I think we can get around this. We can invent solutions for those in high density housing. They could be like communal parks for BBQs, or even communal gardens.
    "Communal?"
    I think you're missing the point.

  20. #16940
    Pandaren Monk Ettan's Avatar
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    You guys need a new candidate, I think you should rally around Vermin Supreme. He runs democrat this year.
    And unlike Biden he will actually be on the new Hampshire ticket.



    In times of hardship you need someone with a solid boot.

    However If free dental care and ponies for all does not fall in taste.
    Paperboy Love Prince will also be a choice.




    He seems a solid pick also.

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