Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Draco-Onis]

Here are the three elements I mentioned, in one post. Almost no one wants to ban stoves, but it makes sense to ban them in new developments, and besides, who cares anyway?

If that's your position, you can just hold it, you don't have to do the Edge thing and pretend to be puzzled by where anyone's saying that.

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I can't tell - do you think that no one wants to ban gas stoves or that it would be good if they did? This really isn't that hard, you can take an actual position, I know you can do it!

This conversation is kind of confusing, there's no ban in the works it's just a made up story by right wing crazies. There was a study that showed gas stove leaks were harmful to humans but that's far away from a federal ban. I am also confused as to why anyone would make a big deal about this aside from Chefs, most Americans barely cook anyways the stove is decorative.

[Edge-]

This conversation is kind of confusing, there's no ban in the works it's just a made up story by right wing crazies. There was a study that showed gas stove leaks were harmful to humans but that's far away from a federal ban. I am also confused as to why anyone would make a big deal about this aside from Chefs, most Americans barely cook anyways the stove is decorative.

Yes but you see the more we talk about this non-issue the more we distract from things actually happening, which helps conservatives because otherwise they really struggle to come up with salient criticisms of Democrats and Joe Biden that don't ultimately trace back to actions from elected Republicans.

[Rasulis]

Frankly, Im amazed theyre building new developments with gas at all. There are what, 2-4 devices in a home that use it?(furnace, stove, fireplace, water heater) and all of those can be handled by electric? And they're cheaper? And sticking to one fuel type eliminates the need for additional costs for a different set of professionals?

I agree. Our home had 5 fireplaces. When we redid the guts, we went ahead and installed electric fireplace inserts. We also installed heat pump and electric water heater. A year ago, we installed Induction stove and forced air convection ovens, and had PG&E cut off the gas line.

I feel much better now. During the 1994 Northridge Earthquake, there were 110+ post-earthquake fires due to broken gas lines. Now I have one less thing to worry about.

[Breccia]

FOX News reports *ding* that Tara Reid, star of Sharknado, is suing...

(checks article)

Tara Reade, the woman who

By framing it this way, you're choosing to vastly inflate the severity of what those accusations amounted to. Because the only accusation that went beyond "he was a bit too much in my personal space and it made me uncomfortable for a moment" was Tara Reade's, and her account hasn't held up to scrutiny.

Equating personal-space issues with actual sexual assault claims is . . . not reasonable in the least.

that's her, she accused Biden of sexual assault in 2020 with a case that almost immediately fell apart plus also she may have committed perjury.

Last we heard:

lol @ Tara Reade defecting to russia

Yeah. Anyhow, she's now also suing the FBI for $10 million for disruptions to her bank account and stealing her mail. Which, to be clear, I believe she has no evidence of.

The United States should not have a two-tiered justice system.

If President Trump and Mr. Giuliani can be assessed tens of millions in damages for their words; a weaponized FBI that seeks to silence, intimidate and eliminate Joe Biden’s victim, Tara Reade, must also be held accountable; failing to do so means our justice and legal system has become an instrument of political oppression and suppression.

-- Reade's lawyer

"So, she's trying to make a parallel with Carroll?"

The Giuliani part is a bit off, but, yes. Which doesn't make sense, considering she's not suing Biden for raping her or defamation, she's suing the FBi for investigating her. She took a swing at the frontrunner for President, it kind of makes sense the FBI would look into it.

"Um, she does know she's a Trump supporter, and Trump has never been convicted of his many crimes? Should she really be complaining about a two-tiered system?"

No, she shouldn't, but she also shouldn't claim intimidation with no witnesses or evidence. And to date, we haven't seen any.

"Are her claims credible?"

WaPo at least does not think so. In particular, she cited witnesses, some of whom said she'd never told them anything. The official forms she said she filed also seem to have vanished, and so we're clear, the Senate in 2020 was red.

I will also point out Trump has a long and proven history of cheating on his wife, paying prostitutes, and moving on married women like a bitch. Biden does not.

I am not saying her claims are definitely false, but I am saying I don't believe her, and despite Biden saying "no, I didn't do it" in public, to the best of my knowledge she hasn't sued. Without any evidence, I don''t believe she'll make the burden of proof in a trial.

"Doesn't Biden and the FBI have absolute immunity?"

No. But it does seem strange for a Trump supporter to take a swing at the President, when they think the President has absolute immunity.

Again, not 100% saying her claim is false, only that she hasn't given me a lot of reason to take her at her word. Suing the FBI based on shadows in her bedroom closet isn't endearing her to me, either.

[Kathandira]

Why would anyone get up in arms even if places were banning gas stoves? I did a quick check and it seems to just be New York, and just for new developments. Which makes sense.

They aren't banned here in Ontario, though gas stoves aren't particularly common, and we're due to replace our gas water heater with an electric this spring. But I don't see why anyone would pick that hill to die on.

Because people read headlines, and then spread that as the whole story. Word of mouth still has a lot of influence.

My parents are conservatives, and they didn't know the details. They lived in Nj for the vast majority of their lives, and now live more south. They heard NY talking about stoves, and the narrative they spew is that NY is banning ALL non-electric stoves. As if the police will be checking people's homes to arresting people who still have non-electric stoves in their kitchens.

In short, people can be pretty gullible.

[Spectral]

This conversation is kind of confusing, there's no ban in the works it's just a made up story by right wing crazies. There was a study that showed gas stove leaks were harmful to humans but that's far away from a federal ban. I am also confused as to why anyone would make a big deal about this aside from Chefs, most Americans barely cook anyways the stove is decorative.

The EPA has, in fact, considered a ban going forward. I don't know whether that's still on the table or not (I would certainly guess not in an election year), but this isn't some whacky conspiracy theory.

Note, again, that you used basically the same format that I mentioned above - (1) no one wants to ban stoves, that's a made up story, (2) but gas stoves are harmful, (3) and this doesn't matter anyway.

[tehdang]

A federal agency chief, CPSC's Trumka Jr., said "Any option is on the table. Products that can’t be made safe can be banned." EPA warns about safety (fine), DOE warns about energy efficiency (fine). Below the federal level, New York banned it in new residential buildings. Closer to me, some California cities banned it in new homes.

These are all facts. You can say all the bs you want about overreactions. That's opinion. This might be some weird American thing to others, but a segment of Americans don't like hearing unelected officials discussing the outlawing of a thing, as opposed to issuing advisories on health and use. And they definitely don't like being told that real statements from bureaucracy heads that *conceivably* have the power to do such a thing didn't happen and it's all just a right wing conspiracy.

"Yes, that stupid official did that, and he was wrong to do it" - good reaction.
"Right wing crazies are spreading disinformation again" - reaction if you want the story to endure, because it comes close to denying the facts at the heart of the story

People that use electric for their own families should be able to consider it from the perspective of people that do like their gas stove. Your use of electric for your family doesn't impact the freedom of other families to choose differently, and we can all get along together from that perspective.

[Elegiac]

Notice how it’s framed conveniently in terms of “family freedom” since individual freedom would entail questions of whether or not parents should be allowed to inflict long term health damage on their kids for the sake of personal preference.

Conservatives actually have an opinion that isn’t just “change is scary” challenge.

[Breccia]

You can say all the bs you want about overreactions.

This reads like someone defending right-wing overreactions. "Oh, you can't say they're overreacting, that's an opinion!" An informed opinion is still better than blatant misinformation which is not based on facts. Also known as "lying".

By the way, you're in the wrong forum to say Trump supporters (admit it, you meant Trump supporters) don't like unelected officials taking their power when people like Giuliani and Meadows attacked the election itself and Trump supporters are okay with that. That sounds like an opinion that does not match with facts, unlike "Trump supporters think Biden is coming for their gas stoves" which does.

[Ivanstone]

Below the federal level, New York banned it in new residential buildings. Closer to me, some California cities banned it in new homes.

People that use electric for their own families should be able to consider it from the perspective of people that do like their gas stove.

If you already like your gas stove you're not in a new home. Your gas stove isn't being taken from you.

[Elegiac]

If you already like your gas stove you're not in a new home. Your gas stove isn't being taken from you.

Also let’s be real what do conservatives actually need a quality stovetop for anyway. The unseasoned chicken breast will taste the same cooked on electric.

[tehdang]

If you already like your gas stove you're not in a new home. Your gas stove isn't being taken from you.

This is the first time I've heard that people who love their gas stove don't purchase new homes. I can just imagine you going up to a couple that have purchased a new home and said, "You have no right to be mad that your purchase and installation of a gas stove in your new home is illegal. When it was passed, you were still in your old home!"

You've conveniently failed to quote the federal official, so may I assume that you would never say the right-wing made up outrage over a a potential ban that had no truth whatsoever? You don't have to quote parts of my post that you absolutely agree with. That was the main focus of my post, and I do request that responses touch on the primary subject. A potential federal ban, discussed by a federal official, is a tiny bit less worrisome if bans were never actually instituted across the country in any context.

[Ivanstone]

Also let’s be real what do conservatives actually need a quality stovetop for anyway. The unseasoned chicken breast will taste the same cooked on electric.

My dad preferred gas because the heat can be controlled a lot faster on a gas stove. He's certainly capable of cooking better than unseasoned chicken breast. He's also a smoker and would frequently light his cigarettes on the stove. I, on the other hand, am a mediocre chef and don't give a fuck.

And quite frankly three of the world's biggest terrorist states make their money from oil. I would have thought that someone who is "concerned" about terrorism like BudgetDepardieu would want to move past oil consuming products and all the baggage it entails.

[Elegiac]

The way this stupid-ass “debate” already happened with seatbelts. Jesus christ.

[Ivanstone]

This is the first time I've heard that people who love their gas stove don't purchase new homes. I can just imagine you going up to a couple that have purchased a new home and said, "You have no right to be mad that your purchase and installation of a gas stove in your new home is illegal. When it was passed, you were still in your old home!"

You've conveniently failed to quote the federal official, so may I assume that you would never say the right-wing made up outrage over a a potential ban that had no truth whatsoever? You don't have to quote parts of my post that you absolutely agree with. That was the main focus of my post, and I do request that responses touch on the primary subject. A potential federal ban, discussed by a federal official, is a tiny bit less worrisome if bans were never actually instituted across the country in any context.

If you love (or like) something that implies you already have it. Also I don't believe you can put yourself into someone else's shoes. That would require empathy on your part and your posting history dictates otherwise.

The quote is meaningless. No one is taking away your gas stove.

[tehdang]

If you love (or like) something that implies you already have it. Also I don't believe you can put yourself into someone else's shoes. That would require empathy on your part and your posting history dictates otherwise.

The quote is meaningless. No one is taking away your gas stove.

Unanswered:
Do you admit that people with gas stoves in their old home might purchase a new home?
Do you admit that people who must open themselves up to criminal and civil penalties if they try to purchase and install a gas stove in their new home have a rational basis for being angry?

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Good news everyone, new computers are banned in new homes. Now, don't be angry or anything, you can still use your old computer and literally nobody is taking away your computer.

Oh, look, some right-wingers are irrationally mad about computer regulations. What unempathetic idiots! Pile on about their stupid, made-up story!
--

This is some pretty basic stuff about understanding your fellow citizens. If your actual choice is to make other people believe that you're ignorant or malevolent regarding their lives, then carry on by all means. You're certainly going to have company within your tribe.

[Ivanstone]

Unanswered:
Do you admit that people with gas stoves in their old home might purchase a new home?
Do you admit that people who must open themselves up to criminal and civil penalties if they try to purchase and install a gas stove in their new home have a rational basis for being angry?

They can live in an area that either allows gas stoves or live a gas free life. Either way no one is taking their stove away from them.
I thought conservatives were the party of law and order. I guess not.

Good news everyone, new computers are banned in new homes. Now, don't be angry or anything, you can still use your old computer and literally nobody is taking away your computer.

Oh, look, some right-wingers are irrationally mad about computer regulations. What unempathetic idiots! Pile on about their stupid, made-up story!

The correct analogy is abacuses are being banned in new homes. You could be angry about it by why bother?

Right wingers will be irrational about something else. Probably the colour of the sky. Why isn't it fucking red??!?!?!?!? ARGH!!!!!
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This is some pretty basic stuff about understanding your fellow citizens. If your actual choice is to make other people believe that you're ignorant or malevolent regarding their lives, then carry on by all means. You're certainly going to have company within your tribe.

You have a very long posting history of not understanding your fellow citizens.

[Endus]

My dad preferred gas because the heat can be controlled a lot faster on a gas stove. He's certainly capable of cooking better than unseasoned chicken breast. He's also a smoker and would frequently light his cigarettes on the stove. I, on the other hand, am a mediocre chef and don't give a fuck.

And quite frankly three of the world's biggest terrorist states make their money from oil. I would have thought that someone who is "concerned" about terrorism like BudgetDepardieu would want to move past oil consuming products and all the baggage it entails.

Frankly, if you're not cooking at a professional chef level, you're not getting any benefit out of a gas stove over electric. The difference basically boils down to two things; electric stoves take a few seconds to heat up where gas is instantly at full heat, and you can turn gas off to stop the heat instantly, where electrics will retain some heat as they cool down.

If you've got literally any counter space, you can just move a pot/pan off the stove to get it off the heat. And the instantaneity of the heat doesn't matter outside of very fringe recipes or the high-pressure situation of a professional kitchen.

I suppose there's also the really minor factor of properly heating a wok, since the shape doesn't transfer heat properly from contact heaters like induction or electric, but a standard gas stove isn't perfect either; there's specialized wok ranges and adapters for that. Or just use a frying pan.

The differences aren't nearly as great as gas stove advocates claim, outside of professional kitchens.

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Unanswered:
Do you admit that people with gas stoves in their old home might purchase a new home?
Do you admit that people who must open themselves up to criminal and civil penalties if they try to purchase and install a gas stove in their new home have a rational basis for being angry?

--
Good news everyone, new computers are banned in new homes. Now, don't be angry or anything, you can still use your old computer and literally nobody is taking away your computer.

Oh, look, some right-wingers are irrationally mad about computer regulations. What unempathetic idiots! Pile on about their stupid, made-up story!

If you want a better analogy, consider things like "lead pipes", "lead paint", or "asbestos".

[Draco-Onis]

The EPA has, in fact, considered a ban going forward. I don't know whether that's still on the table or not (I would certainly guess not in an election year), but this isn't some whacky conspiracy theory.

Note, again, that you used basically the same format that I mentioned above - (1) no one wants to ban stoves, that's a made up story, (2) but gas stoves are harmful, (3) and this doesn't matter anyway.

What are you talking about? the study is scientific fact the EPA considers a lot of things doesn't mean much. I am also asking as to why it is a big deal? most Americans do not cook. Microwaves are far more important than stoves, we are an Uber eats nation. How is this an important topic to get upset about? Do you even cook that often to care?

[tehdang]

They can live in an area that either allows gas stoves or live a gas free life. Either way no one is taking their stove away from them.
I thought conservatives were the party of law and order. I guess not.

You do, of course, realize that a federal official discussing a potential ban, means they can live in a different country that permits gas stoves, and nobody is taking their stove away from them.

The correct analogy is abacuses are being banned in new homes. You could be angry about it by why bother?

Right wingers will be irrational about something else. Probably the colour of the sky. Why isn't it fucking red??!?!?!?!? ARGH!!!!!

I'm trying to get you to a place where they take away something you want. I'm thinking that a ban on new computers in new homes would be a decent guess. Would you say, if that was the regulation instead, that 1) "no one is taking their [computer] away from them" so they have no right to be mad, or 2) "they can live in an area that allows new computers in new homes"

I'm wagering that you know your answers on these, but are refusing to state them.

You have a very long posting history of not understanding your fellow citizens.

If your definition of "understanding" is "Why get mad at potential bans if you can just live in an area where they're not banned, because nobody is taking away your currently owned items," then I have an easy time comprehending why you think it's other people that lack understanding. Is there anything in your life that you'd get angry about if new ones were banned?