Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Kaleredar]

I don't think I've suggested that they "require" anything. Builders can make their decisions about the relative costs and benefits of gas without any objection from me.

I’m so glad that we banned things like asbestos, CFCs, DDT and lead paint and mandated seatbelts back when the right wing had some semblance of cogent thought about them, instead of the utterly mindless contrarianism they sport now.

[Ivanstone]

I don't think I've suggested that they "require" anything. Builders can make their decisions about the relative costs and benefits of gas without any objection from me.

It’s not just builders. Gas lines require infrastructure. It’s also a community issue. A new development can simply bypass the need for gas lines.

[Flarelaine]

Yes and? I have literally built houses. Having preferences is nice and all, but gas is objectively more dangerous and requires more infrastructure.

Can't people who want to cook with gas anyway get it in portable form, negating the need for pipes?

[Endus]

Genuinely baffling that you think this is a good counterargument. This may come as a surprise, but people do actually build new housing and have preferences for their new builds.

And again; this issue is like people who used to be a fan of lead pipes or paint, or asbestos insulation.

We have alternatives that aren't causing health impacts, so why would we continue to use the dangerous, unhealthy option in new constructions? If you want luxury stovetops, go induction.

[Edge-]

And again; this issue is like people who used to be a fan of lead pipes or paint, or asbestos insulation.

#BringBackLead

Let consumers make their own decisions for themselves and their young children! Apparently? #ParentalRights to expose your child to lead without some unelected bureaucrats regulating away that right?

[Breccia]

President Biden on Thursday signed an executive order allowing the U.S. to impose new sanctions on Israeli settlers — and potentially Israeli politicians and government officials — involved in violent attacks against Palestinians.

The unprecedented executive order is the most significant step any U.S. administration has ever taken in response to violence by Israeli settlers against Palestinian civilians in the West Bank.

The Biden administration has raised its concerns about settler violence numerous times with different Israeli governments over the last three years.

After the settler violence reached record levels following the Oct. 7 Hamas terrorist attack, Biden raised the issue publicly and privately with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Other senior U.S. officials have also brought up the issue with their Israeli counterparts in recent months.

Biden in November ordered the secretaries of state and treasury to prepare possible sanctions against Israeli individuals or entities involved in violent attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank.

Several weeks later, Secretary of State Tony Blinken imposed visa bans on several dozen Israeli settlers believed to be involved in attacks against Palestinians, preventing them from traveling to the U.S.

The first round of sanctions under the new executive order includes four Israeli settlers who the U.S. said were directly involved in attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank and systematic acts that led to the forced displacement of Palestinian communities.

They include David Chai Chasdai, who the U.S. says initiated and led a riot in a Palestinian village, Einan Tanjil, who is accused of assaulting Palestinian famers, Shalom Zicherman, who the U.S. alleges assaulted Israeli activists in the West Bank, and Yinon Levi, who the State Department says has repeatedly attacked several communities in the West Bank.

[Spectral]

Well, at least we're beyond the claims that no one wants to ban gas stoves and that no one would care anyway. Moving to all new regulation being just like asbestos bans and therefore definitely good is an object-level policy discussion that could in principle be disputed, anyway, which is an improvement over all the dissembling.

[Edge-]

Well, at least we're beyond the claims that no one wants to ban gas stoves and that no one would care anyway. Moving to all new regulation being just like asbestos bans and therefore definitely good is an object-level policy discussion that could in principle be disputed, anyway, which is an improvement over all the dissembling.

Yes, everyone is pointing out the multiple ways in which clutching of pearls over this is pretty silly. That does appear to be the right of it.

[Benggaul]

Public health and safety: "government overreach", according to the dumbshit MAGA cult. I remain, as ever, unsurprised.

[Poopymonster]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hunte...b05c8779f768ad

This may be a bit of a repeat but -



FREE FUCKING BOOKKEEPING FROM A FAMILY FRIEND?

They really got Brandon by the Balls now!



ETHICS VIOLATION! Surely impeachment worthy...right?



Oh...so nevermind, it's just James Comer and his smoke machine trying to convince people there's a fire again because that's what he's banked his Chairmanship on.

Remember, all these people talking to the Oversight Committee are under oath and don't want to perjure themselves.

Maybe Dark Brandon is just such a master at the crime that he's hidden it all from Republicans, who knows!

But there is fire.
It's their pants that are on fire.
LIARS!

[Breccia]

Public health and safety: "government overreach", according to the dumbshit MAGA cult. I remain, as ever, unsurprised.

I admit, there is a line, but "stoves that use gas lines" really shouldn't be it.

[Kaleredar]

Well, at least we're beyond the claims that no one wants to ban gas stoves and that no one would care anyway. Moving to all new regulation being just like asbestos bans and therefore definitely good is an object-level policy discussion that could in principle be disputed, anyway, which is an improvement over all the dissembling.

And nobody cares that you’ve come to this conclusion, because nobody cares that you had some contention about it.

[AntiFascistVoter]

And nobody cares that you’ve come to this conclusion, because nobody cares that you had some contention about it.

In a nutshell. The difference bewtween posting in good faith, versus posting in bad faith. Is the difference in engagement. Especially for conservative pendats that lack humor or other "liberal" soft skills.


Even the majority of bad-faith posturing as good-faith posters has really fallen off since 2016. I think most of that audience has simply moved on to purer sources of outrage bait.

Like Trump voters refusing to settle for Trump-lite candidates.

[Sunseeker]

Can't people who want to cook with gas anyway get it in portable form, negating the need for pipes?

You mean a BBQ? Sure, outdoors only.

If you mean have a tank at their own home? That depends on the regulations of the area, they are typically not permitted in most "in town" developments(exact rules vary by area). While this could avoid govnmental infrastructure, it still requires the pipes in the house of course, which can still leak and break and potentially explode. Part of the "ban" is that gas stoves are not a perfect seal, and leak slightly, getting worse over time. So thats a specific end-use issue regardless of construction or pipe infrastructure.

Ive lived in rural areas with exterior tanks, the biggest issues are poor maintenence and fire risk. They dont explicitly go BOOM when fire is near, but as exterior heat increases, the internal temp and pressure in the tank rises, and ALL tanks have pressure release valves for this, venting gas when there is too much pressure. But the tanks dont know that there is an explosion hazard outside right?

So you can guess why that can make a bad situation worse. And these pressure valves, theyre not indestructible, so various dangerous conditions can damage them, leading to a failure to vent when pressure is too high(tank go BOOM), or complete venting when it shouldnt (usually also big BOOM).

[Muzjhath]

Yes and? I have literally built houses. Having preferences is nice and all, but gas is objectively more dangerous and requires more infrastructure.
Something that I apparently need to remind you, is crumbling across the country. So if they're not going to fix it, the least they can do is not build more and expand an already failing system.

Your argument is literally "BUT I WANT A GAS STOVE!" I mean, that's it. Beyond pounding your fists on the ground you've got nothing. No argument for superior quality, no argument for superior construction, no argument for cheaper costs, no argument for easier infrastructure, you have nothing beyond "BUT I WANT IT!"

So when you decide to grow up and stop acting like a child and join the actual conversation, by all means do so. But there is a reason I keep you on ignore. This is exactly it.

Too add to this. If @Spectral absolutely wants a gas-stove you can still keep them legal to sell but make the infrastructure not be there. As it's possible to make an individual house have it if you absolutely want it. The economic argument for the infrastructure is such that it will go away.
Gas stoves aren't standard in Sweden, my cousin when he and his wife got a house in a new development could get his house rigged for a gas-stove. With an outside spot for a tank he'd himself be responsible for that was just for his massive 6 plate stove. The oven of that stove? Was electric.
And today he'd probably have chosen Induction but when that house was built induction was still not quite there for chefs (cousin is a former professional chef).

[Orange Joe]

You mean a BBQ? Sure, outdoors only.

If you mean have a tank at their own home? That depends on the regulations of the area, they are typically not permitted in most "in town" developments(exact rules vary by area). While this could avoid govnmental infrastructure, it still requires the pipes in the house of course, which can still leak and break and potentially explode. Part of the "ban" is that gas stoves are not a perfect seal, and leak slightly, getting worse over time. So thats a specific end-use issue regardless of construction or pipe infrastructure.

Ive lived in rural areas with exterior tanks, the biggest issues are poor maintenence and fire risk. They dont explicitly go BOOM when fire is near, but as exterior heat increases, the internal temp and pressure in the tank rises, and ALL tanks have pressure release valves for this, venting gas when there is too much pressure. But the tanks dont know that there is an explosion hazard outside right?

So you can guess why that can make a bad situation worse. And these pressure valves, theyre not indestructible, so various dangerous conditions can damage them, leading to a failure to vent when pressure is too high(tank go BOOM), or complete venting when it shouldnt (usually also big BOOM).

What town doesn't allow 5lbs or even up to 20lbs tanks of propane? I would need to see the regulations before I believe this.


We also have "pigs" where I live, they are generally at least 30-50+ feet from the house to prevent those issues.

[Muzjhath]

President Biden on Thursday signed an executive order allowing the U.S. to impose new sanctions on Israeli settlers — and potentially Israeli politicians and government officials — involved in violent attacks against Palestinians.

I'm surprised as fuck that this happened. Guess pressure is mounting from decent human beings.

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What town doesn't allow 5lbs or even up to 20lbs tanks of propane? I would need to see the regulations before I believe this.


We also have "pigs" where I live, they are generally at least 30-50+ feet from the house to prevent those issues.

I'd say it probably depends on density. If it's a suburban development where everyone has a huge lot with a huge house and a tank could explode and hardly cause an issue? Probably 0 regs.
If it's a townhouse in the middle of boston? Probably a lot of regs.

[Orange Joe]

I'm surprised as fuck that this happened. Guess pressure is mounting from decent human beings.

- - - Updated - - -



I'd say it probably depends on density. If it's a suburban development where everyone has a huge lot with a huge house and a tank could explode and hardly cause an issue? Probably 0 regs.
If it's a townhouse in the middle of boston? Probably a lot of regs.

I know they aren't banned in Detroit. These tanks are mostly used for gas grills.

[Sunseeker]

What town doesn't allow 5lbs or even up to 20lbs tanks of propane? I would need to see the regulations before I believe this.

These are never hooked up to a structure. For a BBQ? Some sort of temporary out-door cooking setup? Sure. But you aren't hooking these things up to your back wall and powering your stove. I mean, maybe some kind of live-in RV/camper park does, but that's not what I'm talking about.

We also have "pigs" where I live, they are generally at least 30-50+ feet from the house to prevent those issues.

Right, you need to have "30 to 50 feet" of clear space from a nearby home (or other structure of a permanent nature). Most urban developments have little more than 20 feet between homes. Hence why I mentioned they are common in rural areas, which have much larger home footprints. They're almost never seen in urban areas, and I certainly can't think of a relatively new development in an urban area where they installed one.

[Orange Joe]

These are never hooked up to a structure. For a BBQ? Some sort of temporary out-door cooking setup? Sure. But you aren't hooking these things up to your back wall and powering your stove. I mean, maybe some kind of live-in RV/camper park does, but that's not what I'm talking about.


Right, you need to have "30 to 50 feet" of clear space from a nearby home (or other structure of a permanent nature). Most urban developments have little more than 20 feet between homes. Hence why I mentioned they are common in rural areas, which have much larger home footprints. They're almost never seen in urban areas, and I certainly can't think of a relatively new development in an urban area where they installed one.

Sure you can. You would only have to run the pipe. I know people that have used them for heat and stoves. As for pigs I've never seen one in a urban environment. They are normally natural gas. Maybe other states are different but yeah that don't happen in michigan