Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[The Stormbringer]

Sure you can. You would only have to run the pipe. I know people that have used them for heat and stoves. As for pigs I've never seen one in a urban environment. They are normally natural gas. Maybe other states are different but yeah that don't happen in michigan

Dude, he's talking about how there are massive areas in pretty much all cities where all the houses are super close to each other, so there's no space to run the tank 30-50 feet away from your house, and also keep it 30-50 feet away from other houses.

Example: I live in a city. For me, the only way to do that would be to run a line under a road into a parking lot, and have the tank planted right there. And even then, that still might be within 30 feet of the apartment building the parking lot is connected to.

[bladeXcrasher]

I'm glad that the worst thing people can complain about is some BS about gas stoves that probably doesn't affect them anyway. It's a testament to home benign these last 3 years have been compared to the 4 years before that.

[Draco-Onis]

I'm glad that the worst thing people can complain about is some BS about gas stoves that probably doesn't affect them anyway. It's a testament to home benign these last 3 years have been compared to the 4 years before that.

If you are a conservative there isn't much for you to complain about a Biden administration policy wise. The things they could go after are either unpopular or a position Biden has already taken.

[Breccia]

If you are a conservative there isn't much for you to complain about a Biden administration policy wise.

That's not true.

You have lots to complain about, you just have to lie.

[Kaleredar]

That's not true.

You have lots to complain about, you just have to lie.

That’s not true either.

You just have to have fundamental problems with people’s rights.

[Orange Joe]

Dude, he's talking about how there are massive areas in pretty much all cities where all the houses are super close to each other, so there's no space to run the tank 30-50 feet away from your house, and also keep it 30-50 feet away from other houses.

Example: I live in a city. For me, the only way to do that would be to run a line under a road into a parking lot, and have the tank planted right there. And even then, that still might be within 30 feet of the apartment building the parking lot is connected to.

So I think there is some confusion here. 5lbs-20lbs can be placed anywhere. They are used in most gas grills. I have yet to see any regulation for those in any city, and feel free to prove me wrong there. You can easily run a pipe in the wall and use this for a large stove. many people used them for supplemental heat



More often than not the pipe is ran right out the back to the outside where the small tank is placed, when emptied the 5-20lbs tank can be moved by person to go refill it


Pigs are massive.




These are not used in urban areas. They are used in rural areas where you can piss off your porch and only trees will see. these require a truck to come fill it.



A quick google search is showing the that generally up to a 125 gallon tank can be placed withing 5-10 feet of your home. mostly just needs to be away from windows and doors.

https://www.amerigas.com/amerigas-bl...-propane-tanks
https://fosterfuels.com/blog/propane-tank-placement/
https://www.santaenergy.com/propane-tank-placement/
https://www.propane101.com/propanetankdistancerules.htm

[Kathranis]

We have a 500 gallon propane tank on our property, along with an old water well, neither of which are used anymore since we switched to electric and municipal water like 15 years ago. It's still there, overgrown with vines. Some cottontail rabbits made a burrow under it and live there now.

[The Stormbringer]

A quick google search is showing the that generally up to a 125 gallon tank can be placed withing 5-10 feet of your home. mostly just needs to be away from windows and doors.

https://www.amerigas.com/amerigas-bl...-propane-tanks
https://fosterfuels.com/blog/propane-tank-placement/
https://www.santaenergy.com/propane-tank-placement/
https://www.propane101.com/propanetankdistancerules.htm

Ahh, interesting. Sounds like he's got wrong information, then. Or perhaps some cities have different standards than others, that's my likely guess.

[Orange Joe]

Ahh, interesting. Sounds like he's got wrong information, then. Or perhaps some cities have different standards than others, that's my likely guess.

While possible for 20lbs and up, I highly doubt 5lbs tanks are banned anywhere.

[Flarelaine]

You mean a BBQ? Sure, outdoors only.

If you mean have a tank at their own home? That depends on the regulations of the area, they are typically not permitted in most "in town" developments(exact rules vary by area). While this could avoid govnmental infrastructure, it still requires the pipes in the house of course, which can still leak and break and potentially explode. Part of the "ban" is that gas stoves are not a perfect seal, and leak slightly, getting worse over time. So thats a specific end-use issue regardless of construction or pipe infrastructure.

Ive lived in rural areas with exterior tanks, the biggest issues are poor maintenence and fire risk. They dont explicitly go BOOM when fire is near, but as exterior heat increases, the internal temp and pressure in the tank rises, and ALL tanks have pressure release valves for this, venting gas when there is too much pressure. But the tanks dont know that there is an explosion hazard outside right?

So you can guess why that can make a bad situation worse. And these pressure valves, theyre not indestructible, so various dangerous conditions can damage them, leading to a failure to vent when pressure is too high(tank go BOOM), or complete venting when it shouldnt (usually also big BOOM).

My grandma used a gas stove with portable tanks for most of her life. So did much of the countryside (most villages received gas pipelines in the 1990s). I doubt it is inherently dangerous with proper care. I mean we always had the stories about people who checked for leaks with lit matches but... come on.

We're talking 25lb tanks, for the record.

[tehdang]

Sure, but is that reaction reasonable? That's what I was pointing out my dude. Stick to the topic, stop zooming out.



I'd inform the panicked, apparently ignorant American that Congressional authority supersedes regulatory authority, which is itself derived from laws on the books. If Congress felt that a Department was overstepping its regulatory bounds then it could rectify the situation by passing legislation to that effect.

There's always a vote. The only reason there wouldn't practically be a vote on this now is because of how the Republican party has evolved into an opposition party rather than a governing party.

The gross ignorance of most Americans about how the government works and general civics is not a compelling argument.



Murder is illegal already, though. Very explicitly, in a variety of forms. So this is a poor comparison seemingly intended to elicit shock or something and it's not very effective. We're all grounded types here.

I provided a similar example with the FAA and Boeing, which I thought was fairly practical given Boeings safety woes and grounding of planes as a result.



It is! And we have a wide range of substances and other things that are outlawed through regulatory actions through the powers granted those agencies. That's part of "regulation". You're de-facto arguing that agencies shouldn't be allowed to regulate because regulation involves potential banning and banning should be a Congressional power.

As noted, that's not how the government operates and Americans ignorance of the operations of government and civics are a poor argument.



But what if the risk comes from radioactive material a company is releasing into public waterways? Would you want an agency to say, "We're going to investigate every avenue to address this, including banning them from releasing the harmful substance in the river behind you."? Or do you think, "We're concerned about the health impacts and will look into ways to limit your risk to the radioactive waste flowing in the river behind you. Have you considered not going in the water? Moving?"

I dunno about you, but the latter just sounds like you're asking someone on the street corner for advice.

I’ll have to suspend this line due to an infraction on my post, but maybe in the future there will be reason to pick it back up.

[Rasulis]

Kudlow on Fox Business: "We had a blowout jobs report ... I know many of my conservative friends are trying to drill holes in this report. But you know what, folks? It is what it is. It's a very strong report. Not every economic stat should be viewed through a political lens."

Yes. That Larry Kudlow.

[Edge-]

Kudlow on Fox Business: "We had a blowout jobs report ... I know many of my conservative friends are trying to drill holes in this report. But you know what, folks? It is what it is. It's a very strong report. Not every economic stat should be viewed through a political lens."

Yes. That Larry Kudlow.

"We thank Mr. Kudlow for his time at Fox News and wish him the best of luck in his next adventure."

His ability to maintain an emotionless face as his voice goes up and down is an almost ventriloquist like talent.

[Endus]

"We thank Mr. Kudlow for his time at Fox News and wish him the best of luck in his next adventure."

His ability to maintain an emotionless face as his voice goes up and down is an almost ventriloquist like talent.

I will note that the way they report and analyse the economy is using frames of reference that pretty religiously only consider whether the economy is good for rich people.

Stock values are up! Ignore the staggering inflation rates affecting consumer goods!

Job numbers are up! This has nothing to do with wages stagnating so badly more and more people are working multiple jobs, we swear.

Unemployement is down! Wages have cratered so badly families need dual incomes to get by, and oh yeah, we're also lowering child labor restrictions so you can put your kids to work too!

[Paranoid Android]

I will note that the way they report and analyse the economy is using frames of reference that pretty religiously only consider whether the economy is good for rich people.

Stock values are up! Ignore the staggering inflation rates affecting consumer goods!

Job numbers are up! This has nothing to do with wages stagnating so badly more and more people are working multiple jobs, we swear.

Unemployement is down! Wages have cratered so badly families need dual incomes to get by, and oh yeah, we're also lowering child labor restrictions so you can put your kids to work too!

I wrote this a few days ago when Biden tweeted about GDP.

The Dems are just so blind. Three cheers for Liberalism! To ignore the hurting of everyday person is infuriating.

I know some will tell me Biden can't do anything cause of Republicans so just give up. Sure Republicans don't want to govern but Democrats can move bills in Senate. Get voted down, but campaign on it.

In short I agree you can't boast all this neo-liberal junk where this is just helping the rich.

Oh btw I have been consistent on jobs I'm always a cynic whether Republican or Democrat that strong jobs don't relate to a living wage.

[Endus]

I wrote this a few days ago when Biden tweeted about GDP.

The Dems are just so blind. Three cheers for Liberalism! To ignore the hurting of everyday person is infuriating.

I know some will tell me Biden can't do anything cause of Republicans so just give up. Sure Republicans don't want to govern but Democrats can move bills in Senate. Get voted down, but campaign on it.

In short I agree you can't boast all this neo-liberal junk where this is just helping the rich.

Oh btw I have been consistent on jobs I'm always a cynic whether Republican or Democrat that strong jobs don't relate to a living wage.

I can't blame Biden personally for this. It's the entire neo-liberal bipartisan establishment going back a century or more, and it's largely a global phenomenon, not just an American one.

It's still bullshit, but it's not any one person's fault. The only way we change it is by getting vocal and angry about the viewframe of supposed economic "health".

[Muzjhath]

I can't blame Biden personally for this. It's the entire neo-liberal bipartisan establishment going back a century or more, and it's largely a global phenomenon, not just an American one.

It's still bullshit, but it's not any one person's fault. The only way we change it is by getting vocal and angry about the viewframe of supposed economic "health".

Personally I blame Reagan and Thatcher.

Biden is a liberal conservative with some progressive social stances where he knows to not stand in the way is better for society. He, and almost all of his party, is solidly right wing.
They're saying and liking things they approve of.

Ofc they claim this is a win. From their main stance it is. Even if Biden also wants to care for the unfortunate. For him caring for the unfortunate isn't a question of "is the economy doing well". It's a moral question that you can use a good economy to alleviate. Instead of structuring society in such a way it'd be less need for said alleviation.

[Kaleredar]

I wrote this a few days ago when Biden tweeted about GDP.

The Dems are just so blind. Three cheers for Liberalism! To ignore the hurting of everyday person is infuriating.

I know some will tell me Biden can't do anything cause of Republicans so just give up. Sure Republicans don't want to govern but Democrats can move bills in Senate. Get voted down, but campaign on it.

In short I agree you can't boast all this neo-liberal junk where this is just helping the rich.

Oh btw I have been consistent on jobs I'm always a cynic whether Republican or Democrat that strong jobs don't relate to a living wage.

You aren't wrong, but remember. This is an election year.

Biden, like all politicians, need pithy little soundbites to convey to the generally-not-paying-attention masses to make him look proactive and re-electable.

"More people have jobs, GDP is up" sounds good, so they say it. Because it means that the opposite (fewer people having jobs, GDP going down) isn't happening. That is the beginning and end of most people's thought process in regards to this information. In short, it makes Biden look good.

The political clout to be gained by a politician tweeting "jobs good, GDP good" is stronger and will go further than a nuanced explanation of wealth concentration, inflation, and complicated steps that need to be taken to alleviate these issues in the coming decade+ time scale contingent on legislative efforts from every body of congress ever will among most voters.


And more importantly, no GOP representative is going to call Biden out on that tweet in any deep way, because as much as democrat praise of a strong GDP and strong job market might not represent the big picture, the things the republicans push for, economically, are pure fictional fairy tales that they absolutely do not want people to think about or consider. So they can't start to pick apart why the GDP and job market being up "aren't actually good," because then their whole house of cards starts to come tumbling down. So they just sort of have to ignore it or claim the numbers are fake or say that their side would "do it even betterer."

[Rasulis]

You aren't wrong, but remember. This is an election year.

Biden, like all politicians, need pithy little soundbites to convey to the generally-not-paying-attention masses to make him look proactive and re-electable.

"More people have jobs, GDP is up" sounds good, so they say it. Because it means that the opposite (fewer people having jobs, GDP going down) isn't happening. That is the beginning and end of most people's thought process in regards to this information. In short, it makes Biden look good.

The political clout to be gained by a politician tweeting "jobs good, GDP good" is stronger and will go further than a nuanced explanation of wealth concentration, inflation, and complicated steps that need to be taken to alleviate these issues in the coming decade+ time scale contingent on legislative efforts from every body of congress ever will among most voters.


And more importantly, no GOP representative is going to call Biden out on that tweet in any deep way, because as much as democrat praise of a strong GDP and strong job market might not represent the big picture, the things the republicans push for, economically, are pure fictional fairy tales that they absolutely do not want people to think about or consider. So they can't start to pick apart why the GDP and job market being up "aren't actually good," because then their whole house of cards starts to come tumbling down. So they just sort of have to ignore it or claim the numbers are fake or say that their side would "do it even betterer."

I took a macroeconomic class one summer taught by a big name from Harvard. I can’t recall the name since it has been over 30 years. According to him, good macroeconomic indicators equal high misery quotient. It made no sense to me back then. It makes a lot of sense now.

How do we measure misery?

Highest housing unaffordability in US history. Housing is now unaffordable for a record half of all U.S. renters, study finds.

Largest increase in homelessness.

US homelessness up 12% to highest reported level as rents soar and coronavirus pandemic aid lapses.

Note that the largest increases are in states with the best macroeconomic indicators.

Florida homelessness continues upward trend, helps drive national numbers to record level in 2023.

Homelessness in Texas on the rise amid high housing costs, federal estimates show

[Captain N]

Have those homeless/renter people ever considered just working harder, and maybe getting 2-3 roommates to help them buy a house? According to the old white people over on the other social media pages who bought their homes in the 90s or prior to the bubble burst in the early 2000s that's what you do. That and something about how it was so much harder to buy those houses 30 years ago because of interest rates and wages being comparable to today....

Now back in reality this is a trend that could probably be curbed by having laws in place that disallow the mass purchase of homes by hedge funds, people using them as AirBnB, and corporate real estate groups.