1. #17041
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    Now back in reality this is a trend that could probably be curbed by having laws in place that disallow the mass purchase of homes by hedge funds, people using them as AirBnB, and corporate real estate groups.
    The AirBnB shit in particular has become a pestilence. And hoo boy is it also alive and well outside of the US. Where I live in Amsterdam practically all of the affordable apartments around us have been bought up and turned into AirBnBs which has had a knock-on effect of raising our rent annually by the maximum allowed under law because the owner of the building also wants to cash in but can't just kick us out due to existing renter laws. The only reason we can afford to stay here is because my wife has lived here practically all of her life and so the rent control laws keep us just this side of destitute which is fortuitous because otherwise we wouldn't be able to afford living pretty much anywhere else either.

    I can only imagine it's at least 10 times worse in the States with fewer renter protections.

  2. #17042
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    Have those homeless/renter people ever considered just working harder, and maybe getting 2-3 roommates to help them buy a house? According to the old white people over on the other social media pages who bought their homes in the 90s or prior to the bubble burst in the early 2000s that's what you do. That and something about how it was so much harder to buy those houses 30 years ago because of interest rates and wages being comparable to today....

    Now back in reality this is a trend that could probably be curbed by having laws in place that disallow the mass purchase of homes by hedge funds, people using them as AirBnB, and corporate real estate groups.
    Laws would help but honestly I think we’re at the point where rich people need a reminder that unions are the alternative to a factory owner getting lynched in front of his wife and kids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  3. #17043
    Titan Captain N's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Resident of Emerald City
    Posts
    11,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I can only imagine it's at least 10 times worse in the States with fewer renter protections.
    When my wife and I visited Seattle back in 2019 -- we stayed at a AirBnB tiny home that the owners had built on their property in Columbia City. It is vastly smaller than the condo we own in the city itself. The price of that tiny house if you were to buy it is $300,000. According to some people who lived here for awhile rent used to be somewhere in the $1200-$1500 range outside the city proper....now you're lucky if you find something for less than $2500-$3000/month.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Laws would help but honestly I think we’re at the point where rich people need a reminder that unions are the alternative to a factory owner getting lynched in front of his wife and kids.
    I don't disagree with you but we have far too many people who would rush to the defense of the factory owner by claiming that expecting to have a roof over your head and food in your stomach is jealousy and that the people wanting to hurt them need to just work harder.
    Last edited by Captain N; 2024-02-04 at 07:26 PM.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

    I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)

  4. #17044
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    I don't disagree with you but we have far too many people who would rush to the defense of the factory owner by claiming that expecting to have a roof over your head and food in your stomach is jealousy and that the people wanting to hurt them need to just work harder.
    I don’t agree.

    The American Dream can’t survive scrutiny by comparison and what we’re seeing is increasing numbers of people actually making that comparison. And the right are running out of car keys to jingle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  5. #17045
    Titan Captain N's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Resident of Emerald City
    Posts
    11,332
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    I don’t agree.

    The American Dream can’t survive scrutiny by comparison and what we’re seeing is increasing numbers of people actually making that comparison. And the right are running out of car keys to jingle.
    I guess the question here is what do we do with the group who is still in mad simp mode for the ultra wealthy? I mean we point out that housing costs and grocery costs continue to rise while inflation comes down. We have report after report of record profits by food manufacturers and housing becoming out of reach per Rasulis' post above. What do we need to do as rational people to get enough of the "I got mine so fuck you" crowd to see this type of future is not sustainable and actually has the crime and poverty results that they've been told to fear for decades.
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

    I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)

  6. #17046
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Neverland Ranch Survivor
    Posts
    7,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    I guess the question here is what do we do with the group who is still in mad simp mode for the ultra wealthy? I mean we point out that housing costs and grocery costs continue to rise while inflation comes down. We have report after report of record profits by food manufacturers and housing becoming out of reach per Rasulis' post above. What do we need to do as rational people to get enough of the "I got mine so fuck you" crowd to see this type of future is not sustainable and actually has the crime and poverty results that they've been told to fear for decades.
    Wait for them to die out is the most likely strategy while teaching their children their parents idea is both short sighted and fucking inhumane.
    With wealth accumulating at fewer and fewer people each generation, eventually we will need to adopt the French solution to the problem.
    Now if you'll excuse me, I'ma read up on a carpentry project. Willing to collaborate with someone into metalworking. Will need someone to translate the French.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  7. #17047
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    I guess the question here is what do we do with the group who is still in mad simp mode for the ultra wealthy? I mean we point out that housing costs and grocery costs continue to rise while inflation comes down. We have report after report of record profits by food manufacturers and housing becoming out of reach per Rasulis' post above. What do we need to do as rational people to get enough of the "I got mine so fuck you" crowd to see this type of future is not sustainable and actually has the crime and poverty results that they've been told to fear for decades.
    Same way every social reform movement succeeds.

    Those that can be convinced will be convinced, those that cannot were never necessary participants to the discussion to begin with. And that's part of why so many dishonest actors insist that the primary and singular strategy for achieving change must be deradicalization; they know it's a waste of effort and it's advantageous to them to make the problem seem as insurmountable as possible.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  8. #17048
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    81,957
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Same way every social reform movement succeeds.

    Those that can be convinced will be convinced, those that cannot were never necessary participants to the discussion to begin with. And that's part of why so many dishonest actors insist that the primary and singular strategy for achieving change must be deradicalization; they know it's a waste of effort and it's advantageous to them to make the problem seem as insurmountable as possible.
    It sucks, but the reality is that social reform happens through violence or threat of violence. Even those famous pacifists in social reform movements like MLK and Gandhi only ever achieved their success by presenting an alternative to violent uprising that was swelling behind them. MLK at least openly recognized this in his later years; that his movement could not ever have succeeded as it did without the threat of race violence threatened by the likes of Malcolm X. Peace is not a path unto itself; it's an alternative that is offered to avoid violence.

    And before anyone tries to misrepresent what I'm saying here; if you're going to endorse police shutting down violent riots and the like, you're just as in favor of violence to push your social agenda as I am. The police are violence. Either directly, or the threat of violence simply by being present and (generally) armed. If you're supporting police action to shut down criminal behaviour while hand-wringing over my appeal to violence for social change, then your issue is not an opposition to violence, just an opposition to challenging the social order. The hand-wringing would be entirely performative and dishonest.


  9. #17049
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It sucks, but the reality is that social reform happens through violence or threat of violence. Even those famous pacifists in social reform movements like MLK and Gandhi only ever achieved their success by presenting an alternative to violent uprising that was swelling behind them. MLK at least openly recognized this in his later years; that his movement could not ever have succeeded as it did without the threat of race violence threatened by the likes of Malcolm X. Peace is not a path unto itself; it's an alternative that is offered to avoid violence.

    And before anyone tries to misrepresent what I'm saying here; if you're going to endorse police shutting down violent riots and the like, you're just as in favor of violence to push your social agenda as I am. The police are violence. Either directly, or the threat of violence simply by being present and (generally) armed. If you're supporting police action to shut down criminal behaviour while hand-wringing over my appeal to violence for social change, then your issue is not an opposition to violence, just an opposition to challenging the social order. The hand-wringing would be entirely performative and dishonest.
    Man I sure hope there is no extreeeeemely salient quote from Stokely Carmichael about this exact fucking thing...

    Dr. King's policy was that nonviolence would achieve the gains for black people in the United States. His major assumption was that if you are nonviolent, if you suffer, your opponent will see your suffering and will be moved to change his heart. That's very good. He only made one fallacious assumption: In order for nonviolence to work, your opponent must have a conscience. The United States has none. Has none.
    There it is.

    And more than that, it speaks to the fundamental futility of "debate" as a mechanism of persuasion. The actual processes whereby people walk away from - let's nod to Elisabeth Young-Bruehl and call them "ideologies of desire" (bigotry, conspiracy theories, etc.) - those processes tend to take place in private and usually after someone has been directly affected in a way that shifts their framing of the issue. At the same time the degree to which those ideologies of desire are actually firmly rooted in most people's heads is vastly overstated.

    Pretend America is a frat house with a drinking problem. Most guys in the frat probably aren't committed alcoholics and wouldn't drink if it wasn't around or there was less social pressure to, but there's one or two who have actual addiction issues they aren't ready to address. You don't "debate" them out of alcoholism or "compromise" on the amount of alcohol they're allowed in the house. Either they learn to moderate themselves or they don't get invited to parties anymore, and if they pick a fight then they get kicked out of the frat.

    Obviously there's significantly more nuance when you scale that up to macro-ideological levels but same shit applies. Conservatism is best treated not as simply an incorrect set of opinions but rather a combination of a drug and a confidence trick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  10. #17050
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It sucks, but the reality is that social reform happens through violence or threat of violence. Even those famous pacifists in social reform movements like MLK and Gandhi only ever achieved their success by presenting an alternative to violent uprising that was swelling behind them. MLK at least openly recognized this in his later years; that his movement could not ever have succeeded as it did without the threat of race violence threatened by the likes of Malcolm X. Peace is not a path unto itself; it's an alternative that is offered to avoid violence.

    And before anyone tries to misrepresent what I'm saying here; if you're going to endorse police shutting down violent riots and the like, you're just as in favor of violence to push your social agenda as I am. The police are violence. Either directly, or the threat of violence simply by being present and (generally) armed. If you're supporting police action to shut down criminal behaviour while hand-wringing over my appeal to violence for social change, then your issue is not an opposition to violence, just an opposition to challenging the social order. The hand-wringing would be entirely performative and dishonest.
    The US is not remotely close to that stage. There is a sizeable segment of the US population for whom the economy is not working. However, the majority still feels good about it. Latest Axios/Harris poll.

    Americans are actually pretty happy with their finances

    By the numbers: 63% of Americans rate their current financial situation as being "good," including 19% of us who say it's "very good."

    Americans' outlooks for the future are also rosy. 66% think that 2024 will be better than 2023, and 85% of us feel we could change our personal financial situation for the better this year.

    More than half of Americans say that if they lost their job tomorrow they'd be OK; that they could find an equivalent or better job quickly; and that "my employers need me more than I need them."

    63% of respondents describe their job security as "a sure thing."

    The bottom line: Americans who believe their community's economy is strong outnumber those who think it's weak.


    None of the above are conducive to a French style revolution. Or any revolution for that matter.

  11. #17051
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    81,957
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The US is not remotely close to that stage. There is a sizeable segment of the US population for whom the economy is not working. However, the majority still feels good about it. Latest Axios/Harris poll.

    Americans are actually pretty happy with their finances



    None of the above are conducive to a French style revolution. Or any revolution for that matter.
    Oh, sure. They're more likely to see a dipshit right-wing failed revolution than an uprising of the working class. I was speaking in generalities, not to any looming incident.


  12. #17052
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasulis View Post
    The US is not remotely close to that stage. There is a sizeable segment of the US population for whom the economy is not working. However, the majority still feels good about it. Latest Axios/Harris poll.
    Yeah, no. Ignoring the questionable nature of articles like these given the dingus factories at places like Vox, Axios, and Politico work overtime in election years, this is very much a case of missing the forest for the trees.

    "What are people's feelings on the economy?" and "Is the economy nearing a crisis point?" aren't synonymous questions as a) people can very well perceive the economy to be an entirely different state than it actually is, and b) people's opinions about the economy can change literally overnight in response to practically nothing.

    So let's look at some real numbers.

    Of Americans who have savings, nearly all of them have less than $5000 banked and just under half of that number have less than $500 banked.
    Only about 15% of the homes listed in 2023 are affordable by the typical household, down 5% from last year.
    80% of households owe some form of debt.
    Covering the median rent by itself requires $11.50 an hour. The federal minimum wage is still $7.50.

    But yeah this economy's totally sustainable because of Axios Vibes, maaaaannnnn.........

    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #17053
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    Yeah, no. Ignoring the questionable nature of articles like these given the dingus factories at places like Vox, Axios, and Politico work overtime in election years, this is very much a case of missing the forest for the trees.
    i don't think that take seems very accurate to the state of the US overall, in terms of 'threat of looming social revolution.'

    the fact is that overall and relatively speaking living in the US is pretty decent - even the lowest tier of US society legitimately has it fairly tolerable, all things considered.
    there's no hordes of children in the street with distended bellies and flies on their eyeballs, there aren't rural pogroms being carried out or death camps that we're aware of.
    even... (i want to say "most" but jfc that is obscenely anecdotal, wtf do i know i'm in a pretty well off economic bubble and have limited daily exposure to the unhoused) ... ok so flippantly i want to say "even most homeless people aren't starving to literal death even if they do suffer from obvious food insecurity" but i don't honestly know if that's true, but it feels true as a casual observation.
    fuck i guess i kind of cancelled out my own thought there, anyways...

    the point is that by and large most things aren't dire in the US, they're just annoying - that's a great recipe for being pissed off online most of your life, but will never get the people to rise up and throw off the shackles of the bourgeoisie oppressors.

    the only way anything in the US changes is if the representative side of government were overtaken by genuinely liberal idealogues who went "you know what? fuck you if you don't like it, you get healthcare and public services funding and etc" and just did what was best for civilization in spite of the protestations of the oligarchs and their rube hordes.
    but, that will never happen in our lifetimes for sure so it's all kind of academic. the US is what it is and, like everything under capitalism, the nature of its very structure is that it will take everything you like and slowly get worse over time until we're all dead of old age or diabetes, whichever gets us first.

  14. #17054
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Aelia Capitolina
    Posts
    59,753
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    i don't think that take seems very accurate to the state of the US overall, in terms of 'threat of looming social revolution.'

    the fact is that overall and relatively speaking living in the US is pretty decent - even the lowest tier of US society legitimately has it fairly tolerable, all things considered.
    there's no hordes of children in the street with distended bellies and flies on their eyeballs, there aren't rural pogroms being carried out or death camps that we're aware of.
    even... (i want to say "most" but jfc that is obscenely anecdotal, wtf do i know i'm in a pretty well off economic bubble and have limited daily exposure to the unhoused) ... ok so flippantly i want to say "even most homeless people aren't starving to literal death even if they do suffer from obvious food insecurity" but i don't honestly know if that's true, but it feels true as a casual observation.
    fuck i guess i kind of cancelled out my own thought there, anyways...
    Two things.

    One, we live in a globalized economy and just because Western countries have exported the most disgusting elements of capitalism doesn't mean they're absent. The present international crises are symptomatic of the general state of affairs and as they worsen that's going to compound with existing domestic problems.

    Two, social upheaval isn't a function of absolute suffering. Unrest is a phenomenon of comparison so while the US does not have the overwhelming levels of poverty you would see elsewhere it doesn't make crisis less probable. Trumpism is symptomatic of the domestic state of affairs, and that is further feeding back into the international problems.

    the point is that by and large most things aren't dire in the US, they're just annoying - that's a great recipe for being pissed off online most of your life, but will never get the people to rise up and throw off the shackles of the bourgeoisie oppressors.

    the only way anything in the US changes is if the representative side of government were overtaken by genuinely liberal idealogues who went "you know what? fuck you if you don't like it, you get healthcare and public services funding and etc" and just did what was best for civilization in spite of the protestations of the oligarchs and their rube hordes.
    but, that will never happen in our lifetimes for sure so it's all kind of academic. the US is what it is and, like everything under capitalism, the nature of its very structure is that it will take everything you like and slowly get worse over time until we're all dead of old age or diabetes, whichever gets us first.
    Perhaps I'm being unclear as to what I mean when I say "dire", because in this context it's referring to a system's capacity to adjust to sudden changes in circumstances and America's capacity is next to nonexistent - as we saw with COVID wherein it took monumental amounts of effort to simply do less than the bare minimum. And that was during an election year; imagine if it had hit right after Trump was elected while the GOP controlled all three branches of government with no prospect of relief for two years at least. The USA has managed to avoid coming to terms with its systemic flaws by either externalizing them (Manifest Destiny) or by sheer fucking luck (9/11), but it has run out of buffers and luck turning is a matter of when not if.

    This isn't meant to be read as doomerism, by the way, it's a commentary on the fact that the current patch version of American (and more broadly speaking European) politics have outlived their usefulness and that we are past due for a reckoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  15. #17055
    The Lightbringer
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    3,072
    Then also add in car-ownership and expenses too the cost of housing and look at how many households have more than 25% of their income left.
    - Lars

  16. #17056
    Immortal Poopymonster's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Neverland Ranch Survivor
    Posts
    7,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Then also add in car-ownership and expenses too the cost of housing and look at how many households have more than 25% of their income left.
    And people wonder why no one is having kids.
    Fuckers are expensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Crissi View Post
    Quit using other posters as levels of crazy. That is not ok


    If you look, you can see the straw man walking a red herring up a slippery slope coming to join this conversation.

  17. #17057
    I will add to the economy discussion and how average citizen is getting squeezed.

    The examples of greedflation and profit gouging is a larger factor of getting squeezed by the government; taxes, regulations, etc. A sneaky one is micro transactions for services that used to be free now are charged.

    I wish Biden would attack this through legislation and the bully pulpit.

    An example was capping over draft fees at $3. Now will this bill get blocked by Republicans. No doubt. Then campaign on this by saying "I'm trying to save you mine. Republicans want you to pay more of your money to maximize their profits".

    If Biden and Dems actually attacked modern day capitalism and how its set up to squeeze a person, perhaps they would support the party.

    An oh btw, Is you do read about Economic Populism among the right. They get they are being squeezed but direct their anger at migrants, who have no power at all.
    "Buh dah DEMS"

  18. #17058
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Premium
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    ...location, location!
    Posts
    15,543
    Apparently "Bidenomics" is failing, because 60% of people in America live paycheck to paycheck, according to Republicans. A shocking and truly horrifying chain of events. Over HALF of Americans living in such a way? Truly a disgusting failure, and something must be done to improve it!

    Hmmm? What's that? It was... worse? It was 70% in 2022? And 80% in 2019? So that means it's getting better under Biden? "Bidenomics" are working? Well golly gee willikers, who could have ever expected this?!

    Let's just hope that trend continues. If we can get to 50% and lower, that'd be pretty damn sweet. I, certainly, would like to have some more significant savings and to finish paying off all my debt.

  19. #17059
    Quote Originally Posted by The Stormbringer View Post
    Apparently "Bidenomics" is failing, because 60% of people in America live paycheck to paycheck, according to Republicans. A shocking and truly horrifying chain of events. Over HALF of Americans living in such a way? Truly a disgusting failure, and something must be done to improve it!

    Hmmm? What's that? It was... worse? It was 70% in 2022? And 80% in 2019? So that means it's getting better under Biden? "Bidenomics" are working? Well golly gee willikers, who could have ever expected this?!

    Let's just hope that trend continues. If we can get to 50% and lower, that'd be pretty damn sweet. I, certainly, would like to have some more significant savings and to finish paying off all my debt.
    I don't why but Republicans have this impenetrable shield on economics and the miliary. Others have posted the past 40 years of Dems vs Republicans on economy. We always talk and almost meme about how Republicans eff up the economy and Democrats fix it. Yet, the public is brainwashed that you yell less taxes, deregulation and let the rich eff the common man it's great.

    In the most ironic way when 2008 happened and Obama saw a recovering economy and eventually strong economy he passed this onto Trump. Now unlike Obama, Trump with no shame, took all the credit. Covid happened and Trump possibly got out of it without a scratch. Likely losing cause he was too inept on Covid and stupidly told people not to vote by mail.

    If Trump wins and many IF's here, but he will again inherit a strong economy, brag about it. Likely just give tax cuts to rich and most will say Trump did well on the economy.
    "Buh dah DEMS"

  20. #17060
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    I don't why but Republicans have this impenetrable shield on economics and the miliary. Others have posted the past 40 years of Dems vs Republicans on economy. We always talk and almost meme about how Republicans eff up the economy and Democrats fix it. Yet, the public is brainwashed that you yell less taxes, deregulation and let the rich eff the common man it's great.

    In the most ironic way when 2008 happened and Obama saw a recovering economy and eventually strong economy he passed this onto Trump. Now unlike Obama, Trump with no shame, took all the credit. Covid happened and Trump possibly got out of it without a scratch. Likely losing cause he was too inept on Covid and stupidly told people not to vote by mail.

    If Trump wins and many IF's here, but he will again inherit a strong economy, brag about it. Likely just give tax cuts to rich and most will say Trump did well on the economy.
    The short answer is Republican fuckery. Google "two Santa Clauses."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •