1. #17201
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    If a report came out like this from a medical expert...then yeah.
    You need to be a medical expert to simply report that he couldn't remember key dates, like not even close?

  2. #17202
    Quote Originally Posted by Somewhatconcerned View Post
    You need to be a medical expert to simply report that he couldn't remember key dates, like not even close?
    You need to be a medical expert to declare that someone is suffering from dementia and is not medically fit to serve.
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    - H. L. Mencken

  3. #17203
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    You need to be a medical expert to declare that someone is suffering from dementia and is not medically fit to serve.
    While maybe technically true from a legal standpoint, voters have eyes. If they think he's unfit, they're less likely to vote for him in November. And to be crystal clear, I think the same applies to Trump. I said several days ago neither is fit (in the eyes of voters, to me) to be President. We deserve better choices.

  4. #17204
    Quote Originally Posted by btlcryct View Post
    While maybe technically true from a legal standpoint, voters have eyes. If they think he's unfit, they're less likely to vote for him in November. And to be crystal clear, I think the same applies to Trump. I said several days ago neither is fit (in the eyes of voters, to me) to be President. We deserve better choices.
    Sure, but like I said before too...you're getting a senile old fart that shits his Depends behind the desk in the oval office. You just have to decide which one.
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2024-02-10 at 04:12 PM.
    On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

    - H. L. Mencken

  5. #17205
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by btlcryct View Post
    While maybe technically true from a legal standpoint, voters have eyes. If they think he's unfit, they're less likely to vote for him in November. And to be crystal clear, I think the same applies to Trump. I said several days ago neither is fit (in the eyes of voters, to me) to be President. We deserve better choices.
    Americans have better choices.

    This is what they picked.

    That's how primaries work.


  6. #17206
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Americans have better choices.

    This is what they picked.

    That's how primaries work.
    I mean, from what I can see the ones participating in the primaries aren't really much better. The GOP primaries are a rogues' gallery of MAGA darlings whereas in the Dem primaries it was basically an anti-vaxer, a mystic crystal enthusiast and, the only challenger remaining, Dean Phillips, who floated the idea of putting Musk in a Cabinet position.

    What choice is there, really?

  7. #17207
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    What choice is there, really?
    Organizing and actually creating a viable third party.

  8. #17208
    Biden could be a zombie meat puppet piloted by Harris and would still be superior to Trump. The fact conservatives and our "concerned independents" are trying to push this angle just shows once again they got nothing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbutler View Post
    Organizing and actually creating a viable third party.
    You go ahead and do that in ~8 months. We'll wait.
    “There you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles to blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you is that you stuck true to your guns.”

  9. #17209
    Banned Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    Let's pretend that Biden is Senile and unfit, there is a process in place for that and like it or not Bidens Vice President is a hell of a lot better than anybody Trump is going to pick

  10. #17210
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbutler View Post
    Organizing and actually creating a viable third party.
    Good luck with that in the US system, and I was specifically referring to the Primaries since that was what was being discussed.

    I've long maintained that in order for the US elections to progress to something better the GOP as a party just needs to die. The Democrats are basically an amalgamation of differing opinions and varying degrees of "left" and "center" who have all basically banded together because the GOP are the alternative. Without the GOP looming, the Democrats could safely split into several different parties that better fit their respective ideals and maybe we could get a discussion going on RCV--and the elimination of the outdated Electoral College--to get a more fair and representative government going. And since the Democrats are already versed in working with one another within their party despite their differences it would probably be less like pulling teeth to get legislation passed with compromises that aren't two diametrically opposed extremes.

    This is all a pipe dream currently, of course. But if the GOP keep going down the path of eating themselves maybe a decade in the future it might seem more viable.

  11. #17211
    Over 9000! Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbutler View Post
    Organizing and actually creating a viable third party.
    That's all?

    Without some big changes in how the elections work over there, that's never going to happen. How could it? As it currently stands, voting for a 3rd party is a vote against your own interests. Naturally, 3rd party would end up being either closer to Democrats or Republicans, and whichever it's closer to, would be where this new party's voters would mostly come from. It drains the votes from the party you agree on some things, and bolstering the position of the party you disagree with the most.

    That's absolutely what would end up happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by SpaghettiMonk View Post
    And again, let’s presume equity in schools is achievable. Then why should a parent read to a child?

  12. #17212
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Good luck with that in the US system
    Third parties aren't viable in the USA because people don't choose them.

    That's it.

    If 50% of Americans voted for a third-party candidate in 2024, that third-party candidate would be President.


  13. #17213
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Americans have better choices.

    This is what they picked.

    That's how primaries work.
    To an extent, yes. But in my lifetime, turning 51 next month, the incumbent has always been nominated by their party if re-election is an option. Meaning they haven't already served two terms. So it would unprecedented for the Democratic party not to nominate Biden.
    Last edited by btlcryct; 2024-02-10 at 07:06 PM.

  14. #17214
    Old God Kathranis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbutler View Post
    Organizing and actually creating a viable third party.
    That project is going to take decades with significant election reform, and will be impossible without it. It's like saying the solution to climate change is to evolve gills.

    The only way we can realistically get to a place where a third party would be viable would be to eliminate the electoral college and gerrymandering, and implement ranked choice voting, and the only way that happens is if we get a solid democratic majority in power for long enough to pass that legislation without strong opposition from the GOP. Even then the DNC might not want to risk diminishing its own power.

  15. #17215
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Third parties aren't viable in the USA because people don't choose them.

    That's it.

    If 50% of Americans voted for a third-party candidate in 2024, that third-party candidate would be President.
    An incredibly trite and meaningless series of statements that ignores why it's difficult for third party candidates (including the cost, restrictive ballot access laws and the FPTP rules that favor the two-party system). I mean seriously, I expect better of you.

  16. #17216
    The Lightbringer
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    Honestly, the biggest issue I see with the "third party" debate is so many have an upside->down perspective. Not a Grassroots perspective.

    Start working on the local and regional levels. Then coalesce to an alternative upwards.
    - Lars

  17. #17217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Honestly, the biggest issue I see with the "third party" debate is so many have an upside->down perspective. Not a Grassroots perspective.

    Start working on the local and regional levels. Then coalesce to an alternative upwards.
    Third parties and independents can and do win at the local and state level, but any races that are meaningful are going to get flooded with funding from the DNC or RNC and that's really difficult for a grassroots candidate to combat.

    I think more realistic would be for splits to happen within the tentpole parties after meaningful election reforms. Ranked choice would be the big one because it would mean that voting for a less mainstream candidate doesn't risk ceding the office to the opposition party. The other big one would be exhaustive campaign finance reform, to minimize the impact PACs and wealthy donors have on the outcomes of elections.

    In such an environment, there would be more room for competition from candidates within each party, and the potential for existing factions to break away and still secure adequate funding to campaign against the DNC and RNC.

    I'm thinking of this more in terms of a post-Trump era where the GOP is weakened or fractured and MAGA has tuned out of politics, creating a landscape where you can have progressives, moderates, and conservatives on a more even playing field.

  18. #17218
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    Honestly, the biggest issue I see with the "third party" debate is so many have an upside->down perspective. Not a Grassroots perspective.

    Start working on the local and regional levels. Then coalesce to an alternative upwards.
    Sure, that'll help. The cards are still stacked against them even on a local level, however. Part of it is that, while more and more Americans want options other than "GOP" or "Dem", they're hesistant to vote for a third party for fear it will split the vote and allow the worst (for them) candidate a victory. This is another product of the FPTP system and why RCV is slowly becoming more popular. There are other obstacles, but this is a big one.

  19. #17219
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    An incredibly trite and meaningless series of statements that ignores why it's difficult for third party candidates (including the cost, restrictive ballot access laws and the FPTP rules that favor the two-party system). I mean seriously, I expect better of you.
    It boils down to people's choices. Yes, there are barriers, but Americans prefer these two parties over other options. At its core, that's why change does not happen.

    That may seem "trite", but that's because of how simple that reality is. Americans choose the devils they know over any possibility of things getting better.
    Last edited by Endus; 2024-02-10 at 08:13 PM.


  20. #17220
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It boils down to people's choices. Yes, there are barriers, but Americans prefer these two parties over other options. At its core, that's why change does not happen.
    Wrong again.

    More than half — 56% of Americans — believe the current parties do such a poor job that a third major party is needed, according to a survey by Gallup. Indeed, minor parties are seeing an uptick in support and interest in recent years.
    As I mentioned above, there is a hunger for more choices, but the fear of splitting the vote and allowing an opposition win is one of the major hurdles.

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