Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Kaleredar]

Which is why I haven't voted since 2012. 2016, Clinton vs Trump was crap. 2020, Biden vs Trump was crap. And 2024 Biden vs Trump II is going to be crap.

Your political abstention attracts the attention of no one and gets your political goals nowhere.

[Elegiac]

Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but right now I don't have any faith in either of who will most likely be the candidates. For me, Hun's report wasn't good for Biden, and during his press conference the other night, he said he was the one that convinced the President of Mexico to open the gates to allow aide into Gaza. And Trump can't tell the difference between Haley and Pelosi multiple times in one short press conference, along with thinking he's above the law. Neither of them instill confidence for me if the time comes when crap really hits the fan. The President has an enormous amount of pressure, and we can't have anyone who could negatively impact possibly billions of lives with something said wrong or forgotten. Again, being pessimistic and believing in plan for the worst, hope for the best, if a nuclear war were to break out, do I trust Biden or Trump with the keys to the arsenal? Right now, my answer is a resounding nope.

Query.

If crap were to actually hit the fan, which party do you think would be more likely to invoke the 25th if a President of their own party genuinely proves to be unfit to discharge their duties?

[Endus]

Yes. Now the next question:

Do you think it is reasonable for any human being let alone someone in their eighties to recall with perfect clarity every detail of their lives when asked over the course of several hours of discussions?

Because if the answer is anything but 'no'; congratulations, buddy, I diagnose you and the rest of the human species with dementia. Hopefully you now understand how ridiculous your position is.

If you asked me what year I graduated with my Honours degree, I'd have to go check my framed degree or my e-mails to double-check. I think it was 2004? Might've not been till 2005? I remember some events, like my divorce, but the particulars of everything else get blurry over time. That's normal memory. Most people don't have perfect recall to begin with; we reorder and re-organize and edit our memories constantly. It's why eyewitness testimony isn't given a lot of credence in court cases, and if documentary evidence contradicts it the documented evidence always wins. Because memory is faulty.

Anyone pushing this bullshit as a condemnation of Biden is not acting in good faith. They're demanding precise photographic recall of every single moment of a man's life. Almost nobody's capable of that. It's unreasonable, and they know that, if they're honest with themselves.

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Which is why I haven't voted since 2012. 2016, Clinton vs Trump was crap. 2020, Biden vs Trump was crap. And 2024 Biden vs Trump II is going to be crap.

As I've said in other threads, "I didn't vote" is just political "thoughts and prayers". You did absolutely nothing, and you expect to be able to take the moral high ground for doing so.

[unfilteredJW]

Which is why I haven't voted since 2012. 2016, Clinton vs Trump was crap. 2020, Biden vs Trump was crap. And 2024 Biden vs Trump II is going to be crap.

So then sit back down at the kids table.

[btlcryct]

Query.

If crap were to actually hit the fan, which party do you think would be more likely to invoke the 25th if a President of their own party genuinely proves to be unfit to discharge their duties?

Democratic, without a doubt. Republicans wouldn't even if a Republican president killed everyone in the country except politicians. Not even a debate.

[Benggaul]

Which is why I haven't voted since 2012. 2016, Clinton vs Trump was crap. 2020, Biden vs Trump was crap. And 2024 Biden vs Trump II is going to be crap.

Oh, so pretty much everything you've written in this thread was pointless then. Good to know. Let us know when you decide to be part of the process and I'll start paying attention to what you have to say, I guess.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Almost nobody's capable of that. It's unreasonable, and they know that, if they're honest with themselves.

Also they turn a blind eye when Trump has exhibited his own "memory problems"...like how he supposedly beat OBAMA in 2016 and will beat Obama again in 2024, how Nikki Haley was apparently Speaker of the House on Jan 6, and that Joe Biden is going to start World War TWO. I could go on.

Anyone who is worried about Biden's competency should be shitting themselves about Trump's.

[btlcryct]

As I've said in other threads, "I didn't vote" is just political "thoughts and prayers". You did absolutely nothing, and you expect to be able to take the moral high ground for doing so.

Just being realistic. I live in CT, which hasn't voted for a Republican President since 1988:

https://www.270towin.com/states/Connecticut

I don't see that changing in 2024, and it shouldn't because while I have issues with Biden, if Biden or Trump are the choices, Biden is by far the better option. And it'll be an even bigger margin of win than the 20% he got in 2020 I think. Which means my vote will do nothing.

[Edge-]

Just being realistic. I live in CT, which hasn't voted for a Republican President since 1988:

https://www.270towin.com/states/Connecticut

I don't see that changing in 2024, and it shouldn't because while I have issues with Biden, if Biden or Trump are the choices, Biden is by far the better option. And it'll be an even bigger margin of win than the 20% he got in 2020 I think. Which means my vote will do nothing.

There are a lot more votes than just for president, and local votes matter more in our daily lives than anyone we vote for who goes to DC. You complain about your vote not mattering but you don't even seem to understand how voting works and its significance.

[Tyris Flare]

As I've said in other threads, "I didn't vote" is just political "thoughts and prayers". You did absolutely nothing, and you expect to be able to take the moral high ground for doing so.

Right, telling it to people is just a kind of virtue signaling.

That said, voting in elections with votes > n doesn't matter on an individual level; that shouldn't even be a controversial position. It has long been established in political research that voting is a fundamentally irrational behavior, but humans do irrational things all the time (for example, spending precious moments of life on this forum)

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Just being realistic. I live in CT, which hasn't voted for a Republican President since 1988:

https://www.270towin.com/states/Connecticut

I don't see that changing in 2024, and it shouldn't because while I have issues with Biden, if Biden or Trump are the choices, Biden is by far the better option. And it'll be an even bigger margin of win than the 20% he got in 2020 I think. Which means my vote will do nothing.

That's not realistic. That's just apathy. You, like 100+ million other Americans, have just decided your vote doesn't matter.



Disclaimer: The cartoon is older so the "two thirds" number isn't up to date...but the spirit is the same.

[Darththeo]

Just being realistic. I live in CT, which hasn't voted for a Republican President since 1988:

https://www.270towin.com/states/Connecticut

I don't see that changing in 2024, and it shouldn't because while I have issues with Biden, if Biden or Trump are the choices, Biden is by far the better option. And it'll be an even bigger margin of win than the 20% he got in 2020 I think. Which means my vote will do nothing.

Connecticut is weird though. But, has been going stronger left. And Connecticut for the most part will never vote for Trump.

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Depends. It’s like unemployment numbers. If you never vote, you get ignored. But if you are conscientious about it and only occasionally drop out, then they pay attention to you and try to understand why.

I voted for Barack twice and I’m voting for Biden a second time in the fall, but I abstained from voting for Hillary because I was upset that the dems had nominated such a weak candidate and that somehow Trump was competitive. Obviously I’m just one guy in a state won by dems every single time I’ve been able to vote, so I’m not expecting strategists to care about me regardless, but in that instance I did feel that the best thing I could do was abstain. And I still feel it was the right choice.

That's a good analogy.

I wasn't a fan of Hillary because I felt it was too late for her to run for President.

[postman1782]

You need to be a medical expert to simply report that he couldn't remember key dates, like not even close?

Trump couldn't even remember his wife in the E. Jean Carroll case, not remembering a date isn't that big of a fucking deal.

[Elegiac]

Democratic, without a doubt. Republicans wouldn't even if a Republican president killed everyone in the country except politicians. Not even a debate.

Then I will refer you to this:

Biden will be the Democrat nominee.

Trump will be the Republican nominee.

Even if Biden had dementia, he would be preferable to Trump.

End of story.

As they said, you've no excuse for pretending there's any parity between the candidates.

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Depends. It’s like unemployment numbers. If you never vote, you get ignored. But if you are conscientious about it and only occasionally drop out, then they pay attention to you and try to understand why.

Not everyone has the luxury of being able to "occasionally drop out" - specifically, their welfare is contingent on keeping Republicans out of office.

[Benggaul]

Whole bunch of people decided to "drop out" in 2016 and we have them in large part to thank for the shit happening today. A very sincere "fuck you" to you, regardless of whether or not you live in a "safe" state.

[btlcryct]

Then I will refer you to this:



As they said, you've no excuse for pretending there's any parity between the candidates.

And I've agreed with that. I've said a couple times if those are the two candidates, Biden is by far the better choice. But that doesn't mean you can't have concerns about his ability to do the job, which is what I've been trying to get at this whole time. I just simply want better than Biden vs Trump. I said a few pages back, I would like to see what Michelle Obama brings to the table. If I'm being honest, I can't say who I'd want for a different Republican candidate. But I can say it definitely is not DeSantis. He's no better than Trump, and in several ways, he's worse. Same goes for Cruz.

For me personally, along with bad candidates since 2012, a portion of my not voting is driving by lack of bi-partisanship. Neither side wants to work with the other, to the point that both sides now openly refuse anything the other party proposes out of hand.

[unfilteredJW]

That’s how I feel about the people in the democratic machine who anointed Hillary before the race even started.

The women forced to carry children they don't want/can't have to term, the minorities that are having their voting rights away, and the piles of corpses from both gun violence and COVID thank you for your bravery.

[Surfd]

Which is why I haven't voted since 2012. 2016, Clinton vs Trump was crap. 2020, Biden vs Trump was crap. And 2024 Biden vs Trump II is going to be crap.

So what you are saying is that you actively assisted in helping get Trump elected in 2016 by not voting for the better choice, and are going to do so again later this year. Congratulations, you're an asshole.

[Elegiac]

And I've agreed with that. I've said a couple times if those are the two candidates, Biden is by far the better choice. But that doesn't mean you can't have concerns about his ability to do the job, which is what I've been trying to get at this whole time.

There is a difference between having well-founded concerns (i.e. the office is stressful to the point someone in their prime finds it difficult) versus helping to further circulate what is fundamentally a right wing conspiracy theory.

I just simply want better than Biden vs Trump. I said a few pages back, I would like to see what Michelle Obama brings to the table. If I'm being honest, I can't say who I'd want for a different Republican candidate. But I can say it definitely is not DeSantis. He's no better than Trump, and in several ways, he's worse. Same goes for Cruz. For me personally, along with bad candidates since 2012, a portion of my not voting is driving by lack of bi-partisanship. Neither side wants to work with the other, to the point that both sides now openly refuse anything the other party proposes out of hand.

Let's explore this, actually.

It's really really easy to get sucked into the view of the Presidential election as a contest between personality types; even I fucking do it sometimes and I studied shit like this lol. The important thing to remember is that the Presidency is less about which dude or dudette is occupying the Oval Office and more as to which agenda is going to shape the direction of the civil service - and a good agenda doesn't necessarily mean a good personality type and vice versa. Competent people are often unlikeable, and likeable people can often be incompetent. And sometimes they're just thoroughly unlikeable.

As for the matter of "both sides now openly refuse anything the other party proposes out of hand", this assumes that both parties are operating from a position of parity - which they aren't. Democrats have shown repeated willingness to come to the table provided Republican policies aren't batshit crazy - which they usually are. You can see this in the way bipartisan deals (actual bipartisan deals, not "the Republicans + Joe Manchin/Krysten Sinema") are almost always scuttled by Republicans, not Democrats.

[Surfd]

That’s how I feel about the people in the democratic machine who anointed Hillary before the race even started.

But most analyses I’ve read say that turnout wasn’t the issue. The problem was her inability to connect with and appeal to working class voters (which was predictable when you nominate someone who isn’t a politician).

She won the popular vote. If you're election system wasn't fucked seven ways from sideways, she would have been president. And that's WITH all the things you mentioned that made her a less than ideal candidate taken into account. That's how unpopular Trump was outside of his base: He lost the popular vote to someone with the charisma of a wet sock.