1. #17541
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Which part is bumpkis? please elaborate.
    Almost every word of your crocodile pearl clutching about Bidens chances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I think a big core of the issue is a lack of long-term vision. Democratic policy offers are always focused on the short term; solve this one next small problem. There's very little long-term vision for the America they want to create.

    Republicans have that; a Christo-fascist authoritarian state where everyone who isn't a good white Christian who waves the flag the appropriate way is subjugated into submission.

    Dems need vision, not just aims to mildly mitigate specific egregious issues in an inevitably half-assed manner. Sure, Republicans are gonna fight them on that vision every step of the way, but you still need that goal to get voters fired up about achieving something real.

    Fuck the next 4 years. Give everyone your 20-year plan to reshape the USA into your party's utopia. Extend that to 50 years. There was a time when governments sought to create and define the future for their people in concrete ways, and now they're just stuck in a holding pattern.
    Yeah, I largely agree. The Democrats have always been reactive and the "dont rock the boat" party. But this non-commital to anything but "the status quo" does not serve them well.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  2. #17542
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Yeah, I largely agree. The Democrats have always been reactive and the "dont rock the boat" party. But this non-commital to anything but "the status quo" does not serve them well.
    I've long felt that this is because the Dem party is basically full of disparate ideas with everything from semi-hard-left progressives to right-of-center conservatives contained within. It's a big tent party, which makes unifying them a bit difficult at times to say the least--unless it's in opposition to the GOP. Then they seem to get their shit together to vote as one bloc most of the time.

    If the GOP would just hurry up and shit itself into oblivion then the Dems could "safely" break up into several different parties and, while there would still be debate and stalling and various other forms of inevitable political bullshit it would at least likely be heading in the right direction the majority of the time instead of periodically taking huge steps back like the repeal of RvW.

  3. #17543
    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I mean, good luck with that. If RvW being repealed wasn't enough of a reason all by itself to never trust another GOP in government then nothing further will move the needle. On top of that you have repeated stories of Biden trying to make corporations more transparent, weed decriminalized at the federal level and extortionate student loans being forgiven only to have that blocked by GOP/business/SCOTUS. Those are in the news. Those have been spoken about by "Dems with a microphone". None of it matters, because the average American is watching money fly out of their pockets at the grocery store and gas pumps.
    .
    Mentioning of Roe v Wade and your whole statement is honestly the Democrats just sitting around and waiting until the Republicans screw up. The Democrats appear most of the time nothing but the Opposition Party. Wait until Republicans eff up, then we win elections.

    Once more I stressed this but was mocked by some people, idk who, that Biden needs to try shit and going after corporations is a Big target. As you stated he has been blocked not by legislation, but all sudden activist judges, what conservatives hate. This again is where I stated he will lose most but then he needs to use his bully pulpit to campaign. The Dems are horrible at this btw, the most charismatic person every in Barrack Obama was so effin bad at talking about policies.

    Even in terms of the Gaza war there have been signs that Biden has been nudged more towards sympathy for Palestinian victims (though nowhere near to an acceptable degree, naturally) and he's started making grumbling noises about Israel's actions but that topic in itself isn't going to win more votes than it loses for him and the Dem party.
    Sympathy towards Palestinians is putting it nicely. I'm just going to keep it politics, elections here and say Biden is getting his ass kicked on this issue. I can see it now when young people and people of color don't come out and vote and they get the blame. Right now and I'm projecting, Biden is losing this election on Israel/Palestine.

    I know, I know. Trump would be worse young people. No doubt. Which leads me back to Democrats playing the opposition party of trying to win on "we are not as bad as they are".

    If anyone is "apathetic" about voting for the Dems--at the very least against Trump and the GOP--in November then they are sitting in a position of privilege and their ranting and raving is all performative in which case there's not a lot more that the Dem party could do to win them over. It is energy better spent elsewhere, such as addressing any of the issues Endus brought up (though several of those are also not US-centric). I'm more than fine with a lot of the stuff this administration has been quietly taking care of in the background instead of ads splashed across every screen trying to talk up what a good job they've done
    I really think you are blind here and brings me back to above and the economy squeeze. Once more people of privilege are not the ones who will sit this out over Israel. Young people and people of color are not sitting back everyday and debating policy like us in here with our Political Broken Brain Syndrome (it's a compliment people).

    Actually the people who discuss in here about politics everyday, may see the angles and discuss them but as always I'm talking about the average voter who just care how much they are spending everyday. Not that corporations are the ones effin them inflation. I wish, they would get the Big Picture and when Biden spoke it would sink it faster. Trust me as a broken brain politics person, I'm frustrated all the time of the average voter not getting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    I've long felt that this is because the Dem party is basically full of disparate ideas with everything from semi-hard-left progressives to right-of-center conservatives contained within. It's a big tent party, which makes unifying them a bit difficult at times to say the least--unless it's in opposition to the GOP. Then they seem to get their shit together to vote as one bloc most of the time.

    If the GOP would just hurry up and shit itself into oblivion then the Dems could "safely" break up into several different parties and, while there would still be debate and stalling and various other forms of inevitable political bullshit it would at least likely be heading in the right direction the majority of the time instead of periodically taking huge steps back like the repeal of RvW.
    Now I very much agree with you here.

    The biggest weakness of the Democrat party is the Big Tent. We can break this down in so many ways from socio-economic, demographics, etc. It's effin hard on what the Dems are trying to do. Yes I'm more left and why and when I criticize Dems, it is from me wanting more left policies.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  4. #17544
    Breaking News: President Biden is expected to sign an immigration order allowing him to temporarily seal the border with Mexico and limit asylum. It would be the single most restrictive border policy instituted by him or any modern Democrat

    Let's see how this works moving Right of most immigration policies in past 40 years(?). Won't get one vote from any anti-immigration person obviously but I bet this doesn't move any voters on immigration scare at all.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  5. #17545
    In a shocker, Republicans are attacking Biden on his Immigration order, basically saying the same rhetoric. Many Democrats also don't like the bill, except the Democrats trying to prop him up by saying Republicans don't want to pass bills (no shit).

    So once more, who was this bill for? If immigration stays top 3 up to November this shows that you don't move right of Republicans thinking you can out flank them.
    Democrats are the best! I will never ever question a Democrat again. I LOVE the Democrats!

  6. #17546
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    In a shocker, Republicans are attacking Biden on his Immigration order, basically saying the same rhetoric. Many Democrats also don't like the bill, except the Democrats trying to prop him up by saying Republicans don't want to pass bills (no shit). So once more, who was this bill for? If immigration stays top 3 up to November this shows that you don't move right of Republicans thinking you can out flank them.
    No... Biden knew the gop wasn't going to go along. He can now say he tried to meet the gop demands.

  7. #17547
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    No... Biden knew the gop wasn't going to go along. He can now say he tried to meet the gop demands.
    But who is the performance for? The Republicans dont care. Their voters dont care. It pisses off the lefties, but the DNC doesnt care.

    Im all for performative politics, but a performance should be for someone. I dont know who this is for.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  8. #17548
    I'm looking at Nikki Haley voters.

  9. #17549
    https://x.com/JoeNBC/status/1798279073334022254

    Fucking rofl, been seeing some of the reporting around "Joe can't even remember his policies internally! He's losing his mind!" and saw an article in The Times (not Time) about it.

    Apparently it all sources back to a WSJ article that extensively uses anonymous Republican sources and Kevin fucking McCarthy and the fact that anyone takes the WSJ political reporting seriously is hilarious in the year of our lord 2024. Bonus points for there being quite a bit of existing reporting on Kevin McCarthy praising Joe Biden's intelligence and quickness.

    They really should consider this an in-kind donation to the GOP and figure out if its ad-value equivalency violates campaign finance rules.

    https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/05/polit...den/index.html

    And in other news House Republicans have made criminal referrals for both Hunter and James Biden to the DoJ based on their respective Congressional testimony. Seems pretty bullshit, but whatever.

    I'm definitely not voting for Hunter or James Biden this November.

  10. #17550
    The Lightbringer bladeXcrasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    But who is the performance for? The Republicans dont care. Their voters dont care. It pisses off the lefties, but the DNC doesnt care.

    Im all for performative politics, but a performance should be for someone. I dont know who this is for.
    The undecided voter that sees Republicans actively voted against border legislation but would like to see biden at least do something with his executive powers? Lefties are already angry with biden over gaza...if they had enough foresight to vote for biden with that going on, I can't really see limiting daily crossings being the straw to break the camels back.

  11. #17551
    Quote Originally Posted by bladeXcrasher View Post
    The undecided voter that sees Republicans actively voted against border legislation but would like to see biden at least do something with his executive powers? Lefties are already angry with biden over gaza...if they had enough foresight to vote for biden with that going on, I can't really see limiting daily crossings being the straw to break the camels back.
    If you look at the polling border policy ranks higher than Gaza so this is a really bad strategy. Biden is pretty much saying Trump and the republicans are right with their immigration policy and their rhetoric no matter how much he denies it. The voters who are getting apathetic will just be more so because that's another what's the point they are both the same (they aren't) mindset.

    Biden's biggest problem is apathy with the base, Gaza is a bat to the back this is a kick to the balls.

  12. #17552
    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
    Let's see how this works moving Right of most immigration policies in past 40 years(?). Won't get one vote from any anti-immigration person obviously but I bet this doesn't move any voters on immigration scare at all.
    Our Social Democratic party adopted the right wing extremist immigration policy with great success and won the election back then.

  13. #17553
    Old God Milchshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by diller View Post
    Our Social Democratic party adopted the right wing extremist immigration policy with great success and won the election back then.
    Ohhh the irony, this makes Biden tO THe leFT to european socialists.

    While this policy does suck. The Biden admin is still the pro-asylum administration in US history. They're taken in more assylum applicants than all other admins put together. People are bigly missing this EO only affects the southern border. All other ports can still recieve assylum seekers..
    Probably better this is under the radar. Before the Texas or SCOTUS courts get notified and limit the numbers.

    There's a profound disconnect on retail politics of immigration.
    • Pro-immigration policies simply do not motivate voters.
    • Anti-immigration backlash is huge, and profoundly motivates voters.
    Even in Europe "WHERe thE rIght PaRTIES ARE to THe LEft OF BiDeN". Ever since the green revolutions and syrian civil war. It's why right ward parties have been surging. And left parties can only claw back power by promissing to 'crack-down on immigration'.
    Government Affiliated Snark

  14. #17554
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bladeXcrasher View Post
    The undecided voter that sees Republicans actively voted against border legislation but would like to see biden at least do something with his executive powers? Lefties are already angry with biden over gaza...if they had enough foresight to vote for biden with that going on, I can't really see limiting daily crossings being the straw to break the camels back.
    I question "undecided voter" these days as much as "independants" or the "silent majority".

    The border issue is largely right wing make believe, the people inclined to take it seriously, to the point where Biden "doing something" about it are all either open or closeted right wingers.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  15. #17555
    Biden campaign hires Republican to pursue 'never Trump' voters

    I supposed that this explain his move on immigration but this is worrisome since it shows Biden is utterly disconnected from reality. The "never Trumpers" did not make a difference last election, the republican party has fully embraced Trump even those that bash Trump say they will vote for him.

  16. #17556
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Biden campaign hires Republican to pursue 'never Trump' voters

    I supposed that this explain his move on immigration but this is worrisome since it shows Biden is utterly disconnected from reality. The "never Trumpers" did not make a difference last election, the republican party has fully embraced Trump even those that bash Trump say they will vote for him.
    It will make billionaire doners happy
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  17. #17557
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Biden campaign hires Republican to pursue 'never Trump' voters

    I supposed that this explain his move on immigration but this is worrisome since it shows Biden is utterly disconnected from reality. The "never Trumpers" did not make a difference last election, the republican party has fully embraced Trump even those that bash Trump say they will vote for him.
    This is the worst part of the democratic side. The assumption that the left wing voters will vote for them regardless and then going for the 1 or 2 Republicans that aren't objectivly crazy and are actually conistent in what they want.

    This bridge burning didn't work for H Clinton and barley worked last time even though Trump was the canidate that suggeted drinking bleach.

  18. #17558
    Quote Originally Posted by ati87 View Post
    This is the worst part of the democratic side. The assumption that the left wing voters will vote for them regardless and then going for the 1 or 2 Republicans that aren't objectivly crazy and are actually conistent in what they want.

    This bridge burning didn't work for H Clinton and barley worked last time even though Trump was the canidate that suggeted drinking bleach.
    The closer we get to the election the more it becomes clear our only hope is Trump fumbling the bag with his big mouth in order to lose. Biden was never good at campaigning even when he was much younger, he seems to be permanently stuck in an era that no longer exist. Trump isn't some kind of anomaly he is the republican party even after he is gone they will continue to follow his template.

  19. #17559
    Merely a Setback Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    The closer we get to the election the more it becomes clear our only hope is Trump fumbling the bag with his big mouth in order to lose. Biden was never good at campaigning even when he was much younger, he seems to be permanently stuck in an era that no longer exist. Trump isn't some kind of anomaly he is the republican party even after he is gone they will continue to follow his template.
    What constitutes “fumbling the bag” for Trump more than being criminally convicted of having illegally paid a prostitute hush money?
    “Do not lose time on daily trivialities. Do not dwell on petty detail. For all of these things melt away and drift apart within the obscure traffic of time. Live well and live broadly. You are alive and living now. Now is the envy of all of the dead.” ~ Emily3, World of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  20. #17560
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    What constitutes “fumbling the bag” for Trump more than being criminally convicted of having illegally paid a prostitute hush money?
    Overexposure of his own making through frequent rallies and interviews reminding people how fed up and annoyed they were with him putting his foot in his mouth. The corruption and crime is pretty much build in at this point, the trial kind of turned out to be a good thing since he wasn't out there as much.

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