Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[gondrin]

You don't get that Trump's age, his senility and being a flat out moron does not effect the voters as much as Biden. Trump for some reason gets a pass.

He only gets a pass from the same people who support he is a fascist. He could be 100 years old and basically brain dead and those people who vote for him. Nobody supports Biden because he is old. In fact, not a whole lot of people ACTIVELY support Biden. However, a WHOLE LOT refuse to support Trump. They aren't voting FOR Biden and more voting AGAINST Trump. However, bringing someone new now would actively depress the vote completely as it would show the Dems literally do not have faith in the person they chose to be the person leading them.

Would I still vote against Trump? Yep. However, a lot would just forgo the election entirely if Biden is dropped. That is the issue. The same thing would happen if Trump would have gotten killed. A lot of voters on the right would have just stayed home because they don't support the GOP, just Trump.

[Endus]

That's not a dunk. When you are the incumbent you should be leading by much more.

Uhh, no, because Kamala Harris is also on the ticket, and is currently VP. Biden shouldn't be leading over Harris, because it's two different races and different roles.

The few polls where Harris is polled as a hypothetical Presidential candidate specifically, she gets spanked by Biden;

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com...ent-primary-d/

The most recent (July 6, by Yougov), Biden beat Harris by a whopping 15 points. And that's basically the only remotely recent poll that actually asked that specific question.

Again, you're making up a fake alternate history.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh cmon't Endus. Marianne Williamson and Phillip Dean. This was not an "open primary".

Those were the only people (plus RFK, briefly) who wanted to challenge Biden. You know you can't force people to enter a primary race, right?

The primary was absolutely open. You're making shit up without any basis in reality.

[Paranoid Android]

.

Would I still vote against Trump? Yep. However, a lot would just forgo the election entirely if Biden is dropped. That is the issue. The same thing would happen if Trump would have gotten killed. A lot of voters on the right would have just stayed home because they don't support the GOP, just Trump.

Poll: 67% call for Biden to drop out

Most voters think Democrats have a better chance of keeping White House if Biden isn’t the nominee


Polls say different. People are saying that Joe should drop out.

[PhaelixWW]

That's not a dunk. When you are the incumbent you should be leading by much more.

Who the everliving fuck said it was a dunk?

Is Biden underperforming what we should expect/hope for? Yes.

Is he outperforming all other Democrat candidates still? Also yes.

You have steadfastly ignored my repeated statements that this is largely due to RFK's presence in this mid-cycle portion of the race. You're just being blatantly, willfully ignorant at this point.

Do better.

- - - Updated - - -

Polls say different. People are saying that Joe should drop out.

From the poll:

Two-thirds of Americans believe Biden should end his campaign based on his performance in the first presidential debate. Half say the same about Trump.

Despite calls for Biden to step down, views of Biden and Trump's job performance and favorability remain unchanged, as does registered voters' vote preference.

Among registered voters, both Biden and Trump net 46% of the vote.

[Edge-]

Wait you don't think Trump is not senile? We talked about this a whole 4 years.

My bad, misread and thought you wrote Biden. Apologies.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Endus, the rule of thumb is you stay in line and don't upset the status quo. Of course nobody was going to run against an incumbent and which is it why it is ALL on Biden to step down.

And he's not going to. If he was going to he would have already. You can talk about an imaginary perfect world where Biden steps down...but it is imaginary. Dude's not going anywhere unless he dies.

[PhaelixWW]

The reason it's even (sort of) a rule of thumb is because it's only natural, in a period of transition, for the more timid elements to run for cover.

Switching candidates mid-race tends to spook the exact voters both sides are trying to court, because it signals a wavering of belief in the underlying cause, even if that impression isn't really warranted. There has to be an overwhelming advantage in the switch to even consider doing so.

And there just isn't, here.

[Mekh]

But an open primary of say AOC v Biden and AOC pushing Biden more progressive would be awesome, for me.

AOC endorses Biden.

Seriously you're just doing a "Vote Blue, no matter who", but backwards. "Doesn't matter who we replace him with, those Biden loving idiots will fall in line."

[Nymrohd]

And he's not going to. If he was going to he would have already. You can talk about an imaginary perfect world where Biden steps down...but it is imaginary. Dude's not going anywhere unless he dies.

That's really the thing; maybe the Democrats could get something if there was a transition to a different candidate if it had been done smoothly. But it will never happen smoothly.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait you don't think Trump is not senile? We talked about this a whole 4 years.

The double negative here is confusing me.

[En Sabah Nur]

Biden struggled to read a teleprompter at one moment and couldn't make out the number(s) properly? Cool.

Meanwhile, Mike Johnson's teleprompter died and he just had to escape because he had no idea what he needed to be saying. What's the excuse there? Does he need to be replaced?

AOC endorses Biden.

Bernie has a whole opinion piece published about him supporting Biden, and the why of it, even.

Its a whole lot longer than this little bit, but it seems rather salient.

I will do all that I can to see that President Biden is re-elected. Why? Despite my disagreements with him on particular issues, he has been the most effective president in the modern history of our country and is the strongest candidate to defeat Mr. Trump

[Edge-]

AOC endorses Biden.

So does Sanders. And Fetterman, for that matter. It's weird that they're all very much on the same page on this.

- - - Updated - - -

Biden struggled to read a teleprompter at one moment and couldn't make out the number(s) properly? Cool.

Meanwhile, Mike Johnson's teleprompter died and he just had to escape because he had no idea what he needed to be saying. What's the excuse there? Does he need to be replaced?

Mike Johnson, giving his best Michael Bay impression.

Hilarious they've harped on Joe for the teleprompter thing and we now have two Republicans, a Senator and a Speaker of the House, who have shown themselves wholly incapable of speaking without a teleprompter.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/07/17/bide...-election.html

The Democratic National Committee said that any virtual roll call to officially nominate President Joe Biden as the party’s presidential nominee will not begin before Aug. 1, according to a Wednesday letter sent to delegates and obtained by NBC News.

The decision rules out the possibility that a process designed to quickly nominate Biden would begin as soon as next week, which some Biden allies had pushed for.

Cool stuff I guess. I really hope Democrats can stop publicly panicking so fucking much.

Wild seeing Democrats squabbling and infighting while Republicans are displaying a surprising show of unity. How the tables have turned.

- - - Updated - - -

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/u...mid=re-nytimes

President Biden said in an interview released on Wednesday that he would re-evaluate whether to stay in the presidential race if a doctor told him directly that he had a medical condition that made that necessary.

Mr. Biden has said repeatedly that none of his doctors have told him he has a serious medical condition. Dr. Kevin O’Connor, the White House physician, wrote after the president’s physical in February that Mr. Biden is “a healthy, active, robust, 81-year-old male who remains fit to successfully execute the duties of the presidency.”

But his disastrous performance at a debate with former President Donald J. Trump last month, which prompted a wave of calls by Democratic allies to step aside, raised questions about his health and acuity.

In an interview with Ed Gordon of BET News, Mr. Biden was asked if there was anything that would make him re-evaluate staying in the race.

“If I had some medical condition that emerged, if somebody, if doctors came to me and said, you got this problem and that problem,” Mr. Biden said, according to a brief excerpt released by the network.

Reasonable shit, still.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Jeffries and Schiff making moves against Biden now. The coup continues, this is shameful. As bad as the polls may look, Biden still is their best chance at beating Trump. Kamala just won't get the indies in the rust belt to show up for her, not to mention the damage it would do to turnout for the millions of primary voters who just had their preferred candidate removed without a say. Undemocratic.

[Paranoid Android]

AOC endorses Biden.

Seriously you're just doing a "Vote Blue, no matter who", but backwards. "Doesn't matter who we replace him with, those Biden loving idiots will fall in line."

omfg. You are not even following the conversation about AOC v Biden. It was a hypothetical. Keep up.

No I'm not doing "vote blue, no matter who". I stated Team Blue will vote for team blue. Who gives a rat's ass about these people. I always talk about the people who are going to elect the President. The undecided, so called Independents and people who don't or will not show up.

[Edge-]

The coup continues, this is shameful.

Please define "coup" for us.

[fwc577]

Jeffries and Schiff making moves against Biden now. The coup continues, this is shameful. As bad as the polls may look, Biden still is their best chance at beating Trump. Kamala just won't get the indies in the rust belt to show up for her, not to mention the damage it would do to turnout for the millions of primary voters who just had their preferred candidate removed without a say. Undemocratic.

I voted for a Biden / Harris ticket in the primary. If Biden needs to step down and Harris takes over, then so be it.

There are a lot of people calling for some kind of change. ANY CHANGE. After the debate performance.

Then we get to add on a new VP as the running mate? Can we get a Josh Shapiro or Gretchen Whitmer which will help us secure those midwestern votes?

You want a power ticket. That's it.

You got the Prosecutor vs Criminal on the main ticket. Then you've got the fake-Midwesterner vs true-Midwesterner on the VP ticket. Not to mention one of those VP picks survived a MAGA assassination plot.

It will be game over.

[Somewhatconcerned]

There are a lot of people calling for some kind of change. ANY CHANGE. After the debate performance.

Then we get to add on a new VP as the running mate? Can we get a Josh Shapiro or Gretchen Whitmer

Who's calling for change, though? Party elites? Certainly not the voters, who put Biden in there. And if you say polls...well, polls don't vote (and are notoriously inaccurate).

I think a guy like Shapiro has a bright future but probably wouldn't want to prematurely end his career by joining a last minute, losing ticket. He could be a factor in 2028.

[Endus]

Jeffries and Schiff making moves against Biden now. The coup continues, this is shameful. As bad as the polls may look, Biden still is their best chance at beating Trump. Kamala just won't get the indies in the rust belt to show up for her, not to mention the damage it would do to turnout for the millions of primary voters who just had their preferred candidate removed without a say. Undemocratic.

Literally no one is talking about doing anything undemocratic. You're engaging in looney-tunes conspiracy nonsense, because all you've got is faking "concerns" to try and dissuade Democrats from voting.

It's really just desperate and sad.

[masterhorus8]

Literally no one is talking about doing anything undemocratic. You're engaging in looney-tunes conspiracy nonsense, because all you've got is faking "concerns" to try and dissuade Democrats from voting.

It's really just desperate and sad.

And arguably dangerous.


Anti-demicratic sentiment is a danger to society.

[fwc577]

Who's calling for change, though? Party elites? Certainly not the voters, who put Biden in there. And if you say polls...well, polls don't vote (and are notoriously inaccurate).

I think a guy like Shapiro has a bright future but probably wouldn't want to prematurely end his career by joining a last minute, losing ticket. He could be a factor in 2028.

Spend 5 minutes outside your bubble and listen to people across all of social media. And yes, polls. You will know that there are a large number...

Gah, fuck this. Nah dude. This is such a MASSIVELY fucking disingenuous take that it isn't even funny and shows your extreme absolute fucking ignorance.

People voted for him in the Primaries when his inner circle ASSURED us he was fine and there was nothing to be worried about and that he was his normal Biden self.

That all changed after that debate when we got to see him on stage, in public, live and uncensored.

He can blame it on being tired and jet lag from his travels over a week prior or a cold all he wants, but he needs to get out there and do a rally or do an unscripted event. He needs to show the American people that he's all there.

All we've seen is that car crash of that debate performance and then controlled interviews or written speeches since then. There has been no hope instilled to show us that he's actually got what it takes.

Polls do vote because they're taken from people who are at least somewhat politically aware to realize that there is a problem with Joe. So gtfo with your "undemocratic" bullshit because it's undemocratic to lie to your constituents about your health and mental capacity so that nobody actually challenges him in the primaries.

If he's challenged in the primaries by ACTUAL challengers like Whitmer, Shapiro, Newsom, etc., he gets exposed A LOT quicker if he's forced to debate. But every REAL challenger was told to stand down by the establishment and nobody gave two fucks about Philips or Williamson because they were not serious challengers.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Spend 5 minutes outside your bubble and listen to people across all of social media. And yes, polls. You will know that there are a large number...

Gah, fuck this. Nah dude. This is such a MASSIVELY fucking disingenuous take that it isn't even funny and shows your extreme absolute fucking ignorance.

People voted for him in the Primaries when his inner circle ASSURED us he was fine and there was nothing to be worried about and that he was his normal Biden self.

That all changed after that debate when we got to see him on stage, in public, live and uncensored.

He can blame it on being tired and jet lag from his travels over a week prior or a cold all he wants, but he needs to get out there and do a rally or do an unscripted event. He needs to show the American people that he's all there.

All we've seen is that car crash of that debate performance and then controlled interviews or written speeches since then. There has been no hope instilled to show us that he's actually got what it takes.

Polls do vote because they're taken from people who are at least somewhat politically aware to realize that there is a problem with Joe. So gtfo with your "undemocratic" bullshit because it's undemocratic to lie to your constituents about your health and mental capacity so that nobody actually challenges him in the primaries.

If he's challenged in the primaries by ACTUAL challengers like Whitmer, Shapiro, Newsom, etc., he gets exposed A LOT quicker if he's forced to debate. But every REAL challenger was told to stand down by the establishment and nobody gave two fucks about Philips or Williamson because they were not serious challengers.

If you're implying the Dem party apparatus shielded Biden from more primal challengers, but is now moving to remove him in a coup...doesn't that show their duplicity? Ugh, sounds bad. We need like 3-4 new parties moving forward.