Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Edge-]

But every REAL challenger was told to stand down by the establishment and nobody gave two fucks about Philips or Williamson because they were not serious challengers.

Like what REAL challengers? Specifically the ones we have at least some amount of direct evidence the DNC somehow pressured them into not running.

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If you're implying the Dem party apparatus shielded Biden from more primal challengers, but is now moving to remove him in a coup...doesn't that show their duplicity? Ugh, sounds bad. We need like 3-4 new parties moving forward.

Again, you still don't seem to know what the word "coup" means (nice attempt to normalize it, fam, but we see you).

Also, citation needed to support this theory because it sure doesn't seem to be supported by publicly available evidence.

[fwc577]

If you're implying the Dem party apparatus shielded Biden from more primal challengers, but is now moving to remove him in a coup...doesn't that show their duplicity? Ugh, sounds bad. We need like 3-4 new parties moving forward.

Go look up coup. It's not a coup. It's especially not one if enough people to him and say hey, please step down, we don't think you can do it. And it's still not a coup if donors come around and say hey, please step down or I'm not giving you money. Biden isn't entitled to that money.

If Biden steps down there is nothing undemocratic going on here. Stop trying to muddy the waters.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Go look up coup. It's not a coup. It's especially not one if enough people to him and say hey, please step down, we don't think you can do it. And it's still not a coup if donors come around and say hey, please step down or I'm not giving you money. Biden isn't entitled to that money.

If Biden steps down there is nothing undemocratic going on here. Stop trying to muddy the waters.

I agree if he willingly steps down, that's one thing.

But if he is coerced under threat of losing votes, support or money, that's totally unacceptable IMO. Especially since the voters are STILL not having a say in this.

This is the pundit/elite/donor class picking the candidate and it should upset you.

[Edge-]

But if he is coerced under threat of losing votes, support or money, that's totally unacceptable IMO. Especially since the voters are STILL not having a say in this.

That's called politics. Don't feign outrage.

This is the pundit/elite/donor class picking the candidate and it should upset you.

There was a primary. Joe Biden won the primary.

[fwc577]

That's called politics. Don't feign outrage.



There was a primary. Joe Biden won the primary.

Exactly, Joe Biden won the primary. We can't have a do-over on that, unfortunately.

But when it turns out the information of Joe's health/well-being was being hidden from the general public, and the situation is dire enough for people to call him to step down. I don't believe it is the pundit/elite/donor class making this pick against the wishes of the voters.

The only time I would even give SOME side-eye to this is if Kamala is completely skipped over for like A Whitmer/Shapiro ticket.

If we get a Kamala / Midwestern VP ticket if Joe steps down, even if it's via coercion from the establishment, elites, donors, etc. There is absolutely nothing that the Democrat voters should be concerned or upset about and IMO, the only people saying otherwise are likely shills afraid of what fresh-meat in this race will do to their little Hitler's chances of getting back in the White House.

[Edge-]

But when it turns out the information of Joe's health/well-being was being hidden from the general public, and the situation is dire enough for people to call him to step down. I don't believe it is the pundit/elite/donor class making this pick against the wishes of the voters.

Bolded is doing heavy lifting and reminds me of the, "PARKINSONS DOC CAME TO THE WHITE HOUSE MANY TIMES DOES JOE HAVE PARKINSONS?! WHY WON'T YOU TELL US MORE!" that media lost their fucking minds over for like 16 hours until the doctors involved came out and were like, "Chill, we were fucking discussing policy. Y'all are wild."

If there was a formal diagnosis (of anything), I'm skeptical they would keep it silent. And given how fucking leaky things have been, skeptical they'd be able to keep all mention of that silent. And given how desperate media are, skeptical that anyone would sit on this news.

[Celista]

I don't understand this current desire for Biden to drop out. There is no other Democratic candidate who would excite and unite the base in such a short period of time, save perhaps AOC who is 34 and too young to run. People are literally asking the DNC to override the will of voters in states where primaries were already completed. Weren't quite a few of us up in arms about the DNC strongarming Bernie Sanders off the ticket a few years ago? Am I missing something?

Additionally..."cognitive capacity" is a broad and vague term in the US as it relates to the presidency. When I do psych assessments and am asking questions related to cognitive functioning I am asking questions like....do you know your name? Do you know where you are? What day is it? I am sure Biden knows the answer to these questions. Yes it is a low bar but it is way too close to the general election to try to more narrowly define what cognitive capacity means as it relates to the president of the US.

[draynay]

I agree if he willingly steps down, that's one thing.

But if he is coerced under threat of losing votes, support or money, that's totally unacceptable IMO. Especially since the voters are STILL not having a say in this.

This is the pundit/elite/donor class picking the candidate and it should upset you.

Are you saying we should be concerned?

[Somewhatconcerned]

That's called politics. Don't feign outrage.



There was a primary. Joe Biden won the primary.

No kidding. So the pundits and Dem elites should stop trying to force him out.

[Kathranis]

So now he has COVID and has to cancel public appearances. Great!

Now would be the perfect time to actually step aside. Wait until after the RNC to announce, win the next news cycle and also sidestep all the crap they lob at him this week.

Even gets to have a nice excuse like, "I'm choosing to withdraw to focus on my recovery."

There was a primary. Joe Biden won the primary.

They can do whatever they want, the DNC is not legally obligated to nominate Biden. He can withdraw and have the delegates pledge their votes to a different candidate. It's as simple as that.

Most of the "they can't switch candidates" misinformation getting pushed is literally coming from right wing organizations.

[DarkTZeratul]

Most of the "they can't switch candidates" misinformation getting pushed is literally coming from right wing organizations.

So is most of the "Biden is old and senile and mentally unfit because dementia" misinformation.

[Celista]

They can do whatever they want, the DNC is not legally obligated to nominate Biden. He can withdraw and have the delegates pledge their votes to a different candidate. It's as simple as that.

Most of the "they can't switch candidates" misinformation getting pushed is literally coming from right wing organizations.

I have voted blue my whole life and I think stating outright that the DNC can do whatever they want and don't have to adhere to the voters' choice in the primary is very dangerous territory. Even if they can do that legally does not mean they should.

[No Kings Voter]

This is such a great bern. It cuts on different types of bad faith actors that were running interference for each other.

[Kathranis]

So is most of the "Biden is old and senile and mentally unfit because dementia" misinformation.

Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff? Obama? Give me a break. Top Democrats are pushing for him to drop out both publicly and behind the scenes.

The Trump campaign is literally pushing for him to stay in the race. Don Jr. praised his NATO performance. Why do you think that is?

[tikcol]

Biden is losing support among his own party. It's very clear he should drop out as soon as possible.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-drop-out.html

President Joe Biden arrived back in Delaware Wednesday night after testing positive for COVID-19 while on the campaign trail in Las Vegas.

The maskless 81-year-old - whose political future is in jeopardy due to age-related concerns - walked very slowly off of Air Force One, pausing multiple times, before putting a mask on inside the black SUV that is carting him off to Rehoboth.

He also appeared to need some assistance as he slowly nudged himself into the car, before the motorcade pulled away.

Over the past 24 hours, private conversations with three top Congressional Democrats have leaked out - and they've all reportedly given Biden the same advice - he's not going to win and it's time to go.

Late Wednesday, CNN reported that Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi privately told Biden he cannot defeat former President Donald Trump and could sink the Democrats' chances in Congress as well.

That comes after both the Ruthless podcast and ABC News reported that Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer traveled to Rehoboth last weekend for a private meeting with Biden and told the president to quit.

ABC also reported that House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries delivered a similar message to Biden as Schumer did when they met last week.

Jeffries had penned a letter to colleagues about the meeting but didn't reveal the meat of the conversation.

A spokesperson refused to divulge those details Wednesday saying that the letter to House Democrats 'speaks for itself.'

'It was a private conversation that will remain private,' the spokesperson said.

That didn't remain the case for Rep. Adam Schiff, who The New York Times outed as telling Democratic donors in the Hamptons on Saturday - prior to the assassination attempt on former President Donald Trump - that Biden couldn't win.

Schiff also told the crowd that Biden's unpopularity could kill the party's chances in Congress as well.

On Wednesday, Schiff made his thoughts public.

[ati87]

I don't understand this current desire for Biden to drop out. There is no other Democratic candidate who would excite and unite the base in such a short period of time, save perhaps AOC who is 34 and too young to run. People are literally asking the DNC to override the will of voters in states where primaries were already completed. Weren't quite a few of us up in arms about the DNC strongarming Bernie Sanders off the ticket a few years ago? Am I missing something?

Additionally..."cognitive capacity" is a broad and vague term in the US as it relates to the presidency. When I do psych assessments and am asking questions related to cognitive functioning I am asking questions like....do you know your name? Do you know where you are? What day is it? I am sure Biden knows the answer to these questions. Yes it is a low bar but it is way too close to the general election to try to more narrowly define what cognitive capacity means as it relates to the president of the US.

What's hard to understand? Biden is turning reliable blue states into battleground states, why would you want him on your ticket?

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Bolded is doing heavy lifting and reminds me of the, "PARKINSONS DOC CAME TO THE WHITE HOUSE MANY TIMES DOES JOE HAVE PARKINSONS?! WHY WON'T YOU TELL US MORE!" that media lost their fucking minds over for like 16 hours until the doctors involved came out and were like, "Chill, we were fucking discussing policy. Y'all are wild."

If there was a formal diagnosis (of anything), I'm skeptical they would keep it silent. And given how fucking leaky things have been, skeptical they'd be able to keep all mention of that silent. And given how desperate media are, skeptical that anyone would sit on this news.

Maybe the press team of Biden should be more open about some stuff instead of playing aroud with words? Bidens team spends a lot of time deflecting and being aggresive and telling people "don't believe your lying eyes".

[Celista]

What's hard to understand? Biden is turning reliable blue states into battleground states, why would you want him on your ticket?

What is replacing Biden at this point going to do? It is less than four months to the election. We have no viable alternative candidate at this point. Kamala Harris has had zero hype/press the last four years. Bernie is also old. OAC is 34. There is no hype anywhere for anyone else in the party at the moment.

The DNC would be throwing out the will of the voters who voted for Biden in the primaries. Is our new normal allowing parties to choose their nominee without a primary election process? You don’t think that won’t cause issues?

Buying into the GOP propaganda is just hurting the left at this point. People should just unite around the better candidate for democracy because Trump and the GOP are hell bent on destroying it.

[Skjaldborg]

The DNC would be throwing out the will of the voters who voted for Biden in the primaries.

You say this but let’s be real, he was effectively the only candidate. Others were jokes like Marianne Williamson and Vermin Supreme.

If you offer me a Hot Pocket or actual laxatives for dinner, I’m taking the Hot Pocket because at least it’s food.

[Malkiah]

What's hard to understand? Biden is turning reliable blue states into battleground states, why would you want him on your ticket?

quibble: if biden had been a shitty president i'd agree with you here, but biden was not a shitty president.
if biden was doing anything materially concerning i'd agree with you, but biden has not done anything materially concerning.

biden is not turning blue states into battleground states, a media narrative and concern trolls are turning polling of blue states into battleground states.
it's literally just spending a month lying about biden nonstop and then going 'well everyone is believing all these lies we've been telling so we better get rid of biden because he's a problem now' - which is fine when you're talking to other smooth-brained political idiots, but that line of reasoning falls very flat with anyone who has more than two functioning neurons and a piece of lint to rub together.

as a society we could respond to this by collectively demanding better media coverage and framing the conversation about the fact that '20-'24 was adequate in terms of federal management, but instead we're responding by going "eewww biden is old and someone we never noticed that before just now but suddenly it's a huge problem we're gonna have a hissy fit about"

trump is 3 years younger than biden. people are now saying biden was too old in 2020. that means trump is too old now.
where is the narrative about trump being too old? where is the coverage of contrasting the stutter of someone who is not a good public speaker but who is saying things that aren't psychotic vs. a game of psychopath mad libs?

it's incredible how manufactured all of this is.

[Draco-Onis]

What is replacing Biden at this point going to do? It is less than four months to the election. We have no viable alternative candidate at this point. Kamala Harris has had zero hype/press the last four years. Bernie is also old. OAC is 34. There is no hype anywhere for anyone else in the party at the moment.

The DNC would be throwing out the will of the voters who voted for Biden in the primaries. Is our new normal allowing parties to choose their nominee without a primary election process? You don’t think that won’t cause issues?

Buying into the GOP propaganda is just hurting the left at this point. People should just unite around the better candidate for democracy because Trump and the GOP are hell bent on destroying it.

If it's too late to change candidates then it's too late for Biden to turn the numbers around because all potential replacements are starting around where he is in terms of polling. Biden didn't have much of a primary because of incumbency, the DNC pretty much crushed any viable opposition and Biden didn't even want to even debate anyone just like Trump.

You can argue it's GOP propaganda but that's denying reality, Biden's age has been an issue the last 4 years and they handled it very badly and it has backfired. It's not about democrats who will vote for whoever is on the ticket but Biden's ability to win over skeptics. If you look at his behavior since his horrible debate his solution to this has been to act like Trump (polls are fake, media and the elite are out to get me, only I can do it). At the end of the day we all want the same thing but just disagree on how to go about it.

I simply don't believe Biden has what it takes to bring down Trump, look at the assassination. A better candidate would have seized the moment to turn the narrative to gun control if only to distract away from his age. Biden and his campaign aren't agile or aggressive enough to take the media and Trump to task, the Trumpian approach to his age isn't going to convince swing voters. A new candidate comes with their own pitfalls but at least they can fight Joe can't or won't not sure which is worse.