Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Celista]

You say this but let’s be real, he was effectively the only candidate. Others were jokes like Marianne Williamson and Vermin Supreme.

If you offer me a Hot Pocket or actual laxatives for dinner, I’m taking the Hot Pocket because at least it’s food.

You’re right but also how dare you imply Vermin Supreme is not a viable candidate lol. One day I will get my pony damnit!

The lack of other alternatives was an issue with the primaries as well as currently if the DNC were to replace Biden unfortunately.

Now AOC in four years? I think she will have the hype for sure.

Only other viable alternative would be if Biden stepped down, Kamala was the nominated canidate and Bernie or AOC got the VP slot. But I think the 35+ age requirement applies to the VP as well. Not sure when her birthday is (yes a quick Google search would answer this but in the car heading to the dog park..car parked for clarity lol).

[Flarelaine]

You’re right but also how dare you imply Vermin Supreme is not a viable candidate lol. One day I will get my pony damnit!

The lack of other alternatives was an issue with the primaries as well as currently if the DNC were to replace Biden unfortunately.

Now AOC in four years? I think she will have the hype for sure.

Only other viable alternative would be if Biden stepped down, Kamala was the nominated canidate and Bernie or AOC got the VP slot. But I think the 35+ age requirement applies to the VP as well. Not sure when her birthday is (yes a quick Google search would answer this but in the car heading to the dog park..car parked for clarity lol).

She will come of age in October, before the election. Not that this is a strict requirement; Joe Biden was not old enough to be a Senator when he was first elected, but turned 30 before he took the seat.

[Celista]

She will come of age in October, before the election. Not that this is a strict requirement; Joe Biden was not old enough to be a Senator when he was first elected, but turned 30 before he took the seat.

Interesting. AOC would be a compelling choice and the only candidate I could see possibly turning this election around in the next few months.

[Sunseeker]

Interesting. AOC would be a compelling choice and the only candidate I could see possibly turning this election around in the next few months.

AOCs biggest faults are that she isnt popular with the old school clintonite brigade. I suspect the Republicans would be able to run a considerable number of attacks against her much more succeasfully than Biden.

Dont get me wrong, I like her, but I think her chances of winning are lower than Biden.

[fwc577]

AOCs biggest faults are that she isnt popular with the old school clintonite brigade. I suspect the Republicans would be able to run a considerable number of attacks against her much more succeasfully than Biden.

Dont get me wrong, I like her, but I think her chances of winning are lower than Biden.

As much as I'd love it, she's got 0 shot.

1- She's too young as in, just old enough to run for President, her experience would be GREATLY called into question

2- She danced on a video one time

3- She might steal your hamburgers

Seriously, the attacks they'd run against her would be so dumb and idiotic that it would get out the vote for all the dumbasses. People like my grandmother who absolutely had to get out and vote for Trump in 2020 because she'd heard at her salon that Biden was going to kick the Catholic church out of the United States.

[Celista]

As much as I'd love it, she's got 0 shot.

1- She's too young as in, just old enough to run for President, her experience would be GREATLY called into question

2- She danced on a video one time

3- She might steal your hamburgers

Seriously, the attacks they'd run against her would be so dumb and idiotic that it would get out the vote for all the dumbasses. People like my grandmother who absolutely had to get out and vote for Trump in 2020 because she'd heard at her salon that Biden was going to kick the Catholic church out of the United States.

AOCs biggest faults are that she isnt popular with the old school clintonite brigade. I suspect the Republicans would be able to run a considerable number of attacks against her much more succeasfully than Biden.

Dont get me wrong, I like her, hbut I think her chances of winning are lower than Biden.

I think she would do best on a ticket where Harris was running for president and AOC was VP. Would appeal to both demographics. Harris is older, but not so old that the same age related concerns would ignite concern as it likely would for Sanders.

[fwc577]

I think she would do best on a ticket where Harris was running for president and AOC was VP. Would appeal to both demographics. Harris is older, but not so old that the same age related concerns would ignite concern as it likely would for Sanders.

I still think, as of right now, the best ticket we can slide into without all the hate of "against the will of the voters" or whatever BS the right is clearly showing they want to choose as their main line of attack, is going to be either:

Harris / Shapiro

Harris / Whitmer

Why? Because Shapiro and Whitmer have a very high approval rating in their respective states:

Josh Shapiro, Pennsylvania: 54%

Gretchen Whitmer, Michigan: She was at like 56% based on a poll from last year but I cannot find any updated polls

They are both relatively known among the Midwest and the Midwest is one of the biggest battleground areas.

I believe, that while JD Vance is a terrible VP pick for Trump, that part of the reason he was actually picked was due to the fact that he's a midwestern.

Right now, with Biden at the top of the ticket, people think of Joe Biden as Scranton Joe. They don't view him as a costal elite. So it's okay if he's got a costal elite on the ticket as his VP.

[cubby]

Interesting. AOC would be a compelling choice and the only candidate I could see possibly turning this election around in the next few months.

There would be a sliver of a chance, because in politics when isn't there ever, of her winning if she replaced Biden now because of the enormous youthful energy she would create.

AOCs biggest faults are that she isnt popular with the old school clintonite brigade. I suspect the Republicans would be able to run a considerable number of attacks against her much more succeasfully than Biden.

Dont get me wrong, I like her, but I think her chances of winning are lower than Biden.

She was a bartender before her House of Reps job, and HUGE kudos to her for what's she's accomplished. However, she needs another 10+ years of experience before Presidential consideration. And running for NY Senate wouldn't hurt, either.

IMO, her path to the White House is through the Vice Presidency. After she's been a Senator.

She would get her ass handed to her if she took Biden's not-ever-going-to-be-empty spot on the 2024 ticket.

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They are both relatively known among the Midwest and the Midwest is one of the biggest battleground areas.

I believe, that while JD Vance is a terrible VP pick for Trump, that part of the reason he was actually picked was due to the fact that he's a midwestern.

Right now, with Biden at the top of the ticket, people think of Joe Biden as Scranton Joe. They don't view him as a costal elite. So it's okay if he's got a costal elite on the ticket as his VP.

Agreed. And there will be an "understanding", aka subtle nod, that while Vance might say one thing, the MAGAt racist misogynists understand that Vance has their back.

[Kathranis]

What is replacing Biden at this point going to do? It is less than four months to the election. We have no viable alternative candidate at this point. Kamala Harris has had zero hype/press the last four years.

This is BULLSHIT. How many times do I have to say it? The election season doesn't begin in earnest until September. He has not even been nominated yet, that happens in mid August.

Biden's popularity is waning. His approval rating is below 40%.

Why the fuck does he need to be the nominee at this point, other than "he's already in the public eye?" That's not a good thing! Every time he makes a public appearance his numbers dip. Get him the fuck outta there.

Kamala is already on the ticket as VP, she has already been chosen as his successor. She is also beating Biden in polls, and unlike Biden, beating Trump in some of the polling. That's without making public appearances and having the DNC apparatus pump millions of dollars into promoting her.

The DNC would be throwing out the will of the voters who voted for Biden in the primaries. Is our new normal allowing parties to choose their nominee without a primary election process? You don’t think that won’t cause issues?

What primaries? Give me a break. The primaries were perfunctory at best and had low turnout because he was the presumptive nominee. He wasn't even on the primary ballots in several states. Often as much as 20% of those who voted, voted undecided in order to protest opposition to him running and specifically his stance on Israel. In the states where he did win delegates, Kamala is already VP pick, effectively making her the runner up.

Buying into the GOP propaganda is just hurting the left at this point. People should just unite around the better candidate for democracy because Trump and the GOP are hell bent on destroying it.

You're the one buying into GOP propaganda, FFS. They are literally the ones pushing the narrative that Biden "can't" withdraw from the race. That's coming from the GOP. They are praising his performances on Fox News.

The GOP wants Biden to run because they have a strategy in place to defeat him.

[Flarelaine]

This is BULLSHIT. How many times do I have to say it? The election season doesn't begin in earnest until September.

In my observation, US election season begins about half a day after votes are counted.

[Celista]

This is BULLSHIT. How many times do I have to say it? The election season doesn't begin in earnest until September. He has not even been nominated yet, that happens in mid August.

Biden's popularity is waning. His approval rating is below 40%.

Why the fuck does he need to be the nominee at this point, other than "he's already in the public eye?" That's not a good thing! Every time he makes a public appearance his numbers dip. Get him the fuck outta there.

Kamala is already on the ticket as VP, she has already been chosen as his successor. She is also beating Biden in polls, and unlike Biden, beating Trump in some of the polling. That's without making public appearances and having the DNC apparatus pump millions of dollars into promoting her.


What primaries? Give me a break. The primaries were perfunctory at best and had low turnout because he was the presumptive nominee. He wasn't even on the primary ballots in several states. Often as much as 20% of those who voted, voted undecided in order to protest opposition to him running and specifically his stance on Israel. In the states where he did win delegates, Kamala is already VP pick, effectively making her the runner up.


You're the one buying into GOP propaganda, FFS. They are literally the ones pushing the narrative that Biden "can't" withdraw from the race. That's coming from the GOP. They are praising his performances on Fox News.

The GOP wants Biden to run because they have a strategy in place to defeat him.

You can disagree with me if you want but I definitely don’t listen to right wing rhetoric. However the GOP is the one who was pushing the “Biden is too old” rhetoric for years at this point. It is only now becoming an “issue” to the left now that Biden is not polling well. I am not sure why we are even concerned with polls at this point after the Hillary Clinton election season.

Disregarding primary results is significant. It sete the precedent that the DNC can run whoever they want going forward. Which I suppose would be fine (read: not really) if both sides could run multiple candidates and we had ranked choice voting and viable third party options but we don’t.

[Kathranis]

Interesting. AOC would be a compelling choice and the only candidate I could see possibly turning this election around in the next few months.

Okay, reading this, I just think you're incredibly out of touch. The DNC is not going to back a progressive nominee. They ratfucked Bernie twice already. The Squad is pretty consistently cowed by leadership in the party and risks getting primaried if they rock the boat too much.

On top of that AoC is too young and inexperienced. She won't even be old enough to run for president until October and that's nearly two months after the DNC needs to announce their nominee. She's also only a representative, and Garfield is the only president to have been elected directly from the House with no other experience. She needs to spend some time working as a senator, mayor, governor, vice president--virtually anything higher profile--before she has any reasonable chance. 2036 I would say is probably the absolute earliest you could expect her to run a realistic campaign for president, maybe 2040.

I think she would do best on a ticket where Harris was running for president and AOC was VP.

Also incredibly unlikely. The Republicans might not be afraid to run a combo like Trump and Vance, but I don't think the Democrats would likely run two women of color on the same ticket.

Harris's VP pick would almost certainly be a white man (Buttigieg, Shapiro, Beshear, Pritzker, etc.) to shore up that sizable demographic. Gretchen Whitmer is the only woman I could see as her VP pick, and mainly because she'd help secure Michigan, which is an important battleground state (and would likely do well in the midwest in general); a Harris/Whitmer ticket could potentially win easily just due to locking in Georgia and Michigan.

I actually personally think a Newsom/Whitmer ticket would be the strongest but that's very unlikely due to the support for Kamala, and I don't think a Harris/Newsom ticket would work since Newsom needs to be at the top of his ticket to be fully effective; also they're from the same state and that's a constitutional no-no.

[Celista]

Okay, reading this, I just think you're incredibly out of touch. The DNC is not going to back a progressive nominee. They ratfucked Bernie twice already. The Squad is pretty consistently cowed by leadership in the party and risks getting primaried if they rock the boat too much.

On top of that AoC is too young and inexperienced. She won't even be old enough to run for president until October and that's nearly two months after the DNC needs to announce their nominee. She's also only a representative, and Garfield is the only president to have been elected directly from the House with no other experience. She needs to spend some time working as a senator, mayor, governor, vice president--virtually anything higher profile--before she has any reasonable chance. 2036 I would say is probably the absolute earliest you could expect her to run a realistic campaign for president, maybe 2040.


Also incredibly unlikely. The Democrats might not be afraid to run a combo like Trump and Vance, but I don't think the Democrats would run two women of color on the same ticket.

Harris's VP pick would almost certainly be a white man (Buttigieg, Shapiro, Beshear, Pritzker, etc.) to shore up that sizable demographic. Gretchen Whitmer is the only woman I could see as her VP pick, and mainly because she'd help secure Michigan, which is an important battleground state; a Harris/Whitmer ticket could potentially win easily just due to locking in Georgia and Michigan.

I actually personally think a Newsom/Whitmer ticket would be the strongest but that's very unlikely due to the support for Kamala, and I don't think a Harris/Newsom ticket would work since Newsome needs to be at the top of his ticket to be fully effective; also they're from the same state so that's a constitutional no-no.

The progressive left does not care about Whitmer or Newsom. They are establishment Democrats at this point. It does nothing to unite the left or represent progressive ideals.


Going to add: this sort of thinking is exactly why Democrats struggled in the last few election cycles, even with a Biden win. Too much “we need a white man” “let’s play it safe” like do you all even listen to progressive content at this point? What about NPR? Literally no one is saying shit like that on the left.

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quibble: if biden had been a shitty president i'd agree with you here, but biden was not a shitty president.
if biden was doing anything materially concerning i'd agree with you, but biden has not done anything materially concerning.

biden is not turning blue states into battleground states, a media narrative and concern trolls are turning polling of blue states into battleground states.
it's literally just spending a month lying about biden nonstop and then going 'well everyone is believing all these lies we've been telling so we better get rid of biden because he's a problem now' - which is fine when you're talking to other smooth-brained political idiots, but that line of reasoning falls very flat with anyone who has more than two functioning neurons and a piece of lint to rub together.

as a society we could respond to this by collectively demanding better media coverage and framing the conversation about the fact that '20-'24 was adequate in terms of federal management, but instead we're responding by going "eewww biden is old and someone we never noticed that before just now but suddenly it's a huge problem we're gonna have a hissy fit about"

trump is 3 years younger than biden. people are now saying biden was too old in 2020. that means trump is too old now.
where is the narrative about trump being too old? where is the coverage of contrasting the stutter of someone who is not a good public speaker but who is saying things that aren't psychotic vs. a game of psychopath mad libs?

it's incredible how manufactured all of this is.

I agree. We need to support publicly owned media and media owned by billionaire cronies needs to be reigned in. Our news coverage should not depend on one person’s desire to be partisan or objective.

[Edge-]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-...an-2024-07-18/

A federal appeals court on Thursday blocked President Joe Biden's administration from continuing to implement a new student debt relief plan designed to lower monthly payments for millions of Americans.

The St. Louis-based 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals granted a request by seven Republican-led states to put on hold parts of the U.S. Department of Education's debt relief plan that had not already been blocked by a lower-court judge.

BUT BIDEN IS LYING AND NOT DELIVERING AND IT'S HIS FAULT

Or something.

I dunno, I'm out of energy.

[Kathranis]

It is only now becoming an “issue” to the left now that Biden is not polling well.

It's becoming an issue because 52 million people watched Biden sundowning live on TV, getting walked all over by Trump for 90 minutes, and countless others in clips on social media and youtube over the following week.

I am not sure why we are even concerned with polls at this point after the Hillary Clinton election season.

I'm not sure you learned the right lesson from Hillary's campaign blunders in 2016 if that's what you're saying.

The polls had Hillary beating Trump, in some cases within the margin of error, and her campaign made the decision to neglect campaigning in Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin out of overconfidence that historical Democratic support would continue there.

If you recognize that in 2016 and 2020 Trump over performed compared to polls, and Trump is already beating Biden in 2024 polls, I don't know why you wouldn't be concerned now with the gap widening over the last two weeks.

Disregarding primary results is significant.

First of all, if Biden drops out (or becomes unable to run) they have no choice but to disregard the results. It's ultimately his choice and he can give up his pledged delegates and they can do whatever they want with them.

They could also do a sort of "speed round" and organize a quick secondary round of primaries if they want, even if it would ultimately just be for optics. Holding entire elections, including recall elections, on such short notice is not unheard of, so it's not that big of a deal to redo the primaries.

Or they can just move his delegates to Kamala, who is already his VP pick. In voting for Biden, the electorate already picked Kamala as his runner up, as it were.

Also, for the record, once again, I want to repeat that the 2024 Democratic primaries were essentially a sham anyway. Biden was the presumptive nominee, didn't campaign, didn't even appear on all the ballots, and turnout was low. I think a lot of people would also argue that they feel misled by the Biden campaign reducing his public appearances and claiming he's a "dynamo" behind the scenes, after his performance in the debate and interviews the last few weeks.

The progressive left does not care about Whitmer or Newsom. They are establishment Democrats at this point. It does nothing to unite the left or represent progressive ideals.

???

Newsom, sure, but Whitmer is fairly progressive, especially on healthcare and labor.

I also don't think you're going to see "the left unite" around "progressive ideals" until more of the establishment ages out / dies off. There is clear disunity in the party between liberals and progressives and I don't see that going away until a changing of the guard happens.

Too much “we need a white man” “let’s play it safe” like do you all even listen to progressive content at this point?

Says the person who keeps shouting down those calling for Biden to step down and have Kamala take over? I don't know a single progressive who loves Biden, especially when it comes to his Israel and border policies. Yeah, he's been good on labor, but that doesn't have to end with Biden; his replacement can pick up that torch and carry it forward, whoever it is. It's not like Biden ran on or has a history of being pro-labor, that came about somewhat unexpectedly after he came into power thanks largely to the work of the NLRB under his administration.

The reason the democrats are having trouble is because the establishment clashes with younger progressive voters, depressing turnout, and fails to captivate independent and moderate voters.

Biden isn't helping with either group right now, for the record. His strong record on the economy and labor is not moving the needle, and he has failed to clearly articulate his strengths to the people who need to be persuaded when he has been given the stage.

If you want to excite people, Biden isn't the answer. Anecdotal, but not a single person I know wants to vote for either Biden or Trump, and they are only pledging votes to Biden for fear of a second Trump term.

If you want to inject some excitement, you replace him with a new, younger, more savvy candidate and rally the party around them. That becomes a historic moment.

Clinging to Biden as he slides further and further down the polls, while hoping, I dunno, he somehow starts aging in reverse? That's not a winning strategy. Every single public appearance he makes, people get anxious. Every time he flubs a line or says the wrong name, people remember how old he is, and the media pounces.

Lashing out at the media is also about as effective as getting mad at gravity. They are a known quantity. They are not and never have been allies of Democracy, so stop expecting them to do the DNC and Biden's job for them. The Democratic Party and their candidate has to make the case for themselves. If Biden can't do that, he's not the right man for the job. Simple as.

[Endus]

Why the fuck does he need to be the nominee at this point, other than "he's already in the public eye?" That's not a good thing! Every time he makes a public appearance his numbers dip. Get him the fuck outta there.

He doesn't "need to be", but he won the primary race for the privilege. And you want to overrule the results of that primary because you're spending way too much time listening to conservative propaganda that he's "slow"?

You're not being rational.

Kamala is already on the ticket as VP, she has already been chosen as his successor. She is also beating Biden in polls, and unlike Biden, beating Trump in some of the polling. That's without making public appearances and having the DNC apparatus pump millions of dollars into promoting her.

And that will continue to be true, so what's the issue?

What primaries? Give me a break. The primaries were perfunctory at best and had low turnout because he was the presumptive nominee. He wasn't even on the primary ballots in several states. Often as much as 20% of those who voted, voted undecided in order to protest opposition to him running and specifically his stance on Israel. In the states where he did win delegates, Kamala is already VP pick, effectively making her the runner up.

This is just complaining about the democratic process. It's silly.

You're the one buying into GOP propaganda, FFS. They are literally the ones pushing the narrative that Biden "can't" withdraw from the race. That's coming from the GOP. They are praising his performances on Fox News.

The GOP wants Biden to run because they have a strategy in place to defeat him.

The GOP wants chaos among Democrats. They're selling both messages, to drive exactly the split you're helping widen. Why are you paying attention to them?

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I agree. We need to support publicly owned media and media owned by billionaire cronies needs to be reigned in. Our news coverage should not depend on one person’s desire to be partisan or objective.

The CBC here in Canada is a godsend. Between that and Canadian laws against news media intentionally lying, Fox News tried to build a Canadian branch and had to pull out because they couldn't move the needle on anything without major consequences.

[Kathranis]

Christ, you people are fucking hopeless. Biden needs to win by 4-5 points to get the EVs necessary to actually win the presidency.

Do you have any actual reasoning to back up why you think he's going to be able to pull that off from where we are, based on his merits, and not just being hopeful that people will unite against Trump?

Seriously. He won in 2020 by such narrow margins that we're still dealing with the fallout four years later, and by every metric he is performing worse in 2024.

Where is your confidence in Biden coming from?

I want the Democrats to win and that's why I'm not comfortable with backing a fucking loser in decline.

I'm also sick of y'all acting like the primaries were anything but a perfunctory sham. He didn't even get put on the ballots in some states. The primaries are not even part of our democratic process per se, they are functions of the two parties, which are not governmental bodies. The rules are entirely at their discretion.

[Edge-]

Christ, you people are fucking hopeless. Biden needs to win by 4-5 points to get the EVs necessary to actually win the presidency.

4-5 points? Like, nationally? I'm not connecting those dots, he needs votes in specific states, but his margin of victory in those states is fairly irrelevant.

Seriously. He won in 2020 by such narrow margins that we're still dealing with the fallout four years later, and by every metric he is performing worse in 2024.

This is...what? This is fiction.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_U...ntial_election

He won by 74 Electoral College votes (the same number Donald won by in 2016), and 7 million popular votes. The only "fallout" is from Republicans who continue to refuse to accept the 2020 results were lawful and valid and continue to promote the lie that the election was stolen.

I'm also sick of y'all acting like the primaries were anything but a perfunctory sham. He didn't even get put on the ballots in some states. The primaries are not even part of our democratic process per se, they are functions of the two parties, which are not governmental bodies. The rules are entirely at their discretion.

There's no evidence to support the assertion the primary was anything other than routine and normal as primaries largely go, especially when an incumbent runs.

What states was he not on the ballot for beyond NH? Because that was due to Biden not submitting his name in the state due to arguments over which state goes first - https://ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/new...re-on-tuesday-

Were there any others?

[Endus]

Christ, you people are fucking hopeless. Biden needs to win by 4-5 points to get the EVs necessary to actually win the presidency.

Do you have any actual reasoning to back up why you think he's going to be able to pull that off from where we are, based on his merits, and not just being hopeful that people will unite against Trump?

Biden, specifically? No. That's not how it works, to begin with.

But casting doubts and aspersions against him sure isn't helping, so it's baffling that you think your attitude is in any way a positive for Democrats. You're playing the Republican's game.

Seriously. He won in 2020 by such narrow margins that we're still dealing with the fallout four years later, and by every metric he is performing worse in 2024.

And that has to do with the upwell of fascism in America, not so much Biden himself. Trump had record turnout in 2020, and lost anyway, because Biden's turnout was even better.

Where is your confidence in Biden coming from?

What "confidence"? He won the primary, Democrats picked him to be the candidate, that's how the process works.

I want the Democrats to win and that's why I'm not comfortable with backing a fucking loser in decline.

Then why are you doing everything you can to make the Democratic candidate look like a bad option? You're not helping.

I'm also sick of y'all acting like the primaries were anything but a perfunctory sham. He didn't even get put on the ballots in some states. The primaries are not even part of our democratic process per se, they are functions of the two parties, which are not governmental bodies. The rules are entirely at their discretion.

So what?

It wasn't a "sham", it was a primary. It wasn't hotly contested, because everyone was pushing for Biden the whole time. That's what you don't seem to get. There weren't big names challenging Biden nor was there that much effort put in because everyone wanted Biden again. He got 87% of the primary votes. That's how incumbency works out, generally. You just don't like the results, so you're trying to present the democratic process as somehow undemocratic, because you didn't get the result you wanted.

[Orange Joe]

He's the incumbent? He is senile and old and that's a big factor to voters. People such as you are exactly doing the Trump narrative of it has to be Trump.

No one running against him? This is funny since the Dem primary was so tilted to giving Biden the nomination. Obviously he was the incumbent so generally not opposed. The One Big Thing is Biden's health has declined.

Also now that we want a open convention you protest. So you actually don't want a open choice by the people, aka the Democrats.


@Edge


Yes, the 20 second clip is what people see. Again this is a clip of many senile moments.

I answered the incumbent above.

It's effin crazy of let's just give it to the incumbent even if he is being selfish and possibly tanking the election.

People Do Not love Biden where if he steps down they won't show up. I can't believe people think Biden is this once in a life politician.

Why are you blaming biden for other people not running? Did biden hold a gun to their head and tell them not to?