Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[PhaelixWW]

I disagree strongly. Policy wise? Yes, but short of AOC, Warren or Sanders, theyre all basically the same.

Biden however has political street cred with a number of groups Harris just doesnt, by no fault of her own. Biden has been around long enough to A: get things done, and B: befriend folks. Harris just hasnt had that time.

I think you're misinterpreting what's being said.

A vote for Biden is a vote for Harris because she'll take over if he's incapacitated for any reason, which is a definitely non-zero possibility.

[Bodakane]

I think you're misinterpreting what's being said.

A vote for Biden is a vote for Harris because she'll take over if he's incapacitated for any reason, which is a definitely non-zero possibility.

100% this. This should have been the message form Biden's campaign from before the debate. They dropped the goddamned ball...again. I don't understand why dems get so effing complacent.

[ati87]

quibble: if biden had been a shitty president i'd agree with you here, but biden was not a shitty president.
if biden was doing anything materially concerning i'd agree with you, but biden has not done anything materially concerning.

.

Biden was behind in the polls, so in other words...irrelevant if you consider him a good president or not. Biden has been losing the election for a while now and if he had a great debate he would be winning probably, but that's not hte case.

biden is not turning blue states into battleground states, a media narrative and concern trolls are turning polling of blue states into battleground states.
it's literally just spending a month lying about biden nonstop and then going 'well everyone is believing all these lies we've been telling so we better get rid of biden because he's a problem now' - which is fine when you're talking to other smooth-brained political idiots, but that line of reasoning falls very flat with anyone who has more than two functioning neurons and a piece of lint to rub together.

as a society we could respond to this by collectively demanding better media coverage and framing the conversation about the fact that '20-'24 was adequate in terms of federal management, but instead we're responding by going "eewww biden is old and someone we never noticed that before just now but suddenly it's a huge problem we're gonna have a hissy fit about"

trump is 3 years younger than biden. people are now saying biden was too old in 2020. that means trump is too old now.
where is the narrative about trump being too old? where is the coverage of contrasting the stutter of someone who is not a good public speaker but who is saying things that aren't psychotic vs. a game of psychopath mad libs?

it's incredible how manufactured all of this is

We can google this shit right, look up that Biden is only ahead by 9 points in NY State, a state he should win by at least double that amount.

It's not manufactured. You're just BLUE MAGA that spends more time denying the facts, making up excuses and eventually settling on Whataboutism. Biden is losing which is a fact and again, and he is not going to turn it around because if he could, he wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

[Odinfrost]

She will come of age in October, before the election. Not that this is a strict requirement; Joe Biden was not old enough to be a Senator when he was first elected, but turned 30 before he took the seat.

Yeah, but the Republicans would say she wouldn't be able to run anyway because fuck them. And they will have Clarence Thomas rule in their favor with another luxury trip

[Mekh]

Biden was behind in the polls, so in other words...irrelevant if you consider him a good president or not. Biden has been losing the election for a while now and if he had a great debate he would be winning probably, but that's not hte case.








We can google this shit right, look up that Biden is only ahead by 9 points in NY State, a state he should win by at least double that amount.

It's not manufactured. You're just BLUE MAGA that spends more time denying the facts, making up excuses and eventually settling on Whataboutism. Biden is losing which is a fact and again, and he is not going to turn it around because if he could, he wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

A state won by 9 percent is battleground now and winning it by 18 would also unlock the secret EC vote bonus to help Dems win!

[En Sabah Nur]

You're playing the Republican's game.

In some some cases, it feels like this is entirely intentional. Other cases just seem to be overly anxious about things, not realising they're not actually helping anything.

[Paranoid Android]

A state won by 9 percent is battleground now and winning it by 18 would also unlock the secret EC vote bonus to help Dems win!

Not a great comment you think this is. The closer or "less points" Biden loses by effects down ballot voting. Namely Congressional districts and this is why the whole Democrat House and Senate want him to drop out. It's happening in my blue state of Minnesota. I would give huge odds that Biden will win it but in our toss up or slightly leaning this may swing districts.

Also to focus on Senate, in a surprise the Democrat Senators such as Sherrod Brown of Ohio and Tasker in Montana and others were holding strong. Now Biden is just making it closer or in some cases they are now losing.

So once more, not only could Dems lose the Presidency but both Houses.

For some of you I'm not the doom and gloom of it's 100 percent over for Biden. I'm not believing Biden is a sure loss, even though I'm a political pessimist at heart.

[ati87]

A state won by 9 percent is battleground now and winning it by 18 would also unlock the secret EC vote bonus to help Dems win!

The fact that Biden is losing every single swing state and Trump is winning the populare vote as well must be hard to connect in the minds of blue MAGA people.

With that in mind, you don't think that a state where a candidate should be ahead by 20-30 points but instead fallen below 10 shows a dangerous overal trend?

- - - Updated - - -

Not a great comment you think this is. The closer or "less points" Biden loses by effects down ballot voting. Namely Congressional districts and this is why the whole Democrat House and Senate want him to drop out. It's happening in my blue state of Minnesota. I would give huge odds that Biden will win it but in our toss up or slightly leaning this may swing districts.

Also to focus on Senate, in a surprise the Democrat Senators such as Sherrod Brown of Ohio and Tasker in Montana and others were holding strong. Now Biden is just making it closer or in some cases they are now losing.

So once more, not only could Dems lose the Presidency but both Houses.

For some of you I'm not the doom and gloom of it's 100 percent over for Biden. I'm not believing Biden is a sure loss, even though I'm a political pessimist at heart.

Even if you set aside the down ballot specific for NY. Fact that Biden has lost so much overal support just tells me that other area's he also lost a lot of support which in turns has like you said broader implications.

For years people have said Texas is slowly turning puprle for a reason because once you fall below the single digits it's potentially winable and you also need to put money in that state. Ronmey won Texas with 16% more votes while Trump in 2024 about 6%.

[Mekh]

The fact that Biden is losing every single swing state and Trump is winning the populare vote as well must be hard to connect in the minds of blue MAGA people.

With that in mind, you don't think that a state where a candidate should be ahead by 20-30 points but instead fallen below 10 shows a dangerous overal trend?

I agree it's dangerous. Which is why I wish people would stop sawing on Biden's chair considering their alternatives are all non-existant or retarded. There's plenty of candidates named who don't even want to run. None of them is beating Biden in the polls and that's although everyone is slinging mud at him and the mud-slinging at potential new candidates hasn't even started.

Heck it would have to be seen if you could even still get another candidate on the ballot. Among other issues.

Election experts warn that it is nearly certain lawsuits would proliferate if a presidential candidate drops out late in the campaign, and the outcome very likely would be in the hands of the courts rather than state election officials.

Emory Law professor Alicia Hughes said during an interview with States Newsroom that such a scenario would be “a complicated mess with an unpredictable outcome that very likely could end up at the steps of a very conservative United States Supreme Court.”

And you guys really think after all this SCOTUS would rule in a way that doesn't kneecap Dems? Utterly mindless with no grasp of the complexities, just some knee-jerk "Biden old".

[ati87]

I agree it's dangerous. Which is why I wish people would stop sawing on Biden's chair considering their alternatives are all non-existant or retarded. There's plenty of candidates named who don't even want to run. None of them is beating Biden in the polls and that's although everyone is slinging mud at him and the mud-slinging at potential new candidates hasn't even started.

Heck it would have to be seen if you could even still get another candidate on the ballot. Among other issues.



And you guys really think after all this SCOTUS would rule in a way that doesn't kneecap Dems? Utterly mindless with no grasp of the complexities, just some knee-jerk "Biden old".

Telling people "don't believe your lying eyes" is why Biden is losing every swing state and Trump is winning the popular vote.

You want Biden to win? That’s not going to happen, maybe in a different multiverse where Biden’s campaign actually took some smart decisions, but in this multiverse they decided to take the worst decision during every single moment.

[Mekh]

Telling people "don't believe your lying eyes" is why Biden is losing every swing state and Trump is winning the popular vote.

You want Biden to win? That’s not going to happen, maybe in a different multiverse where Biden’s campaign actually took some smart decisions, but in this multiverse they decided to take the worst decision during every single moment.

HOW? TELL ME HOW? DON'T JUST SAY "BIDEN SHOULD STEP DOWN AND THE REST WILL FIX ITSELF."

NAMES.
PROCEDURE.
TIMELINE.
BUDGET.

GO!

Or shut the hell up.

[draynay]

Or shut the hell up.

I know I have my preference

[Draco-Onis]

And you guys really think after all this SCOTUS would rule in a way that doesn't kneecap Dems? Utterly mindless with no grasp of the complexities, just some knee-jerk "Biden old".

That's a non factor although gripping of the logistics of switching from Biden to another candidate is. There are no laws regarding internal party politics or basis for republicans to sue since it doesn't affect them directly. Last but more importantly if they are given a standing for this lawsuit democrats can launch their own lawsuits on how Trump got the nomination for a number of reasons. They would be opening Pandora's box if they went that route, although SCOTUS is bat shit crazy right wing court they would be cutting their nose to spite their face if they did this.

[Slant]

HOW? TELL ME HOW? DON'T JUST SAY "BIDEN SHOULD STEP DOWN AND THE REST WILL FIX ITSELF."

NAMES.
PROCEDURE.
TIMELINE.
BUDGET.

GO!

Or shut the hell up.

Outsider's perspective:

One is a candidate that probably wouldn't live through a second term as things stand. You're essentially facing the real possibility that you're actually voting the Vice President as your actual candidate. Might as well put that person forward to begin with.

The other is a candidate that irrationally bears the martyr/hero title, despite him being personified evil. The only way to beat those headlines is to create better headlines, with a new candidate. Any candidate. My hamster would be a better candidate than Biden right now. Harris is really not the worst option at this point, and definitely resets the whole election from the whole who's more senile/who's the bigger victim to the very good track Clinton started with the whole "Why not a woman?"

You have an opportunity to turn "Who's more senile" into "Senile guy someone hated enough to kill him" vs. "Strong chick with VP experience that doesn't take BS from an old geezer."

I know who I'd vote for if I was on the fence...

Timeline? Right the fuck now.
Procedure? Switch the names on the signs. Yes, it's that simple.
Budget? It's there already, the only thing that changes is the figurehead. Or do you think the money Biden collected poofs into nothingness suddenly?

I went, your turn.

[Doomcookie]

HOW? TELL ME HOW? DON'T JUST SAY "BIDEN SHOULD STEP DOWN AND THE REST WILL FIX ITSELF."

NAMES.
PROCEDURE.
TIMELINE.
BUDGET.

GO!

Or shut the hell up.

I think the only thing that matters in this election, is voter enthusiasm. The hatred for Trump is great for the Democrats, but they will almost certainly need something more. The "who" didn't matter in 2020, so long as it wasn't Trump. The "who" in 2020 also doesn't matter so much, so long as it isn't Trump or Biden. Anyone besides Biden will spark enthusiasm in the Democrats for the next few months.

What most polls fail to track properly, is whether someone will actually vote, or how likely they are to actually drag their butts out the front door, and stand in line. It's not an all-or-nothing meter.

People don't like Harris, but she's going to help in November, if they pick her. It's not an ideal situation, but it is better than a slow drain on enthusiasm and donations that Biden will bring. Don't forget, the Democrats strongest policy position will be abortion, and the risk of further restrictions against women. White males will vote for Trump, there's no getting around it. The Dems need to convince women to get to the polls. Harris can do that better than Biden can.

The transition can be easy, Biden can say he's accepting that the time has come for him to hang up his hat, and he won't seek re-election. He can stand up and back Harris as his replacement on the ticket, and ask his supporters and delegates to give her the same support that they were kind enough to give to him.

It can be done as early as this weekend, or even next. let it resonate with people over a weekend, and let it dominate the news cycle and Sunday-morning pundit chatter.

The "budget" aspect of your demand makes very little sense. Donors are already pausing, because they want this change. Democrat donors aren't Biden fanboys, they are party people, and Trump haters.

[Kaleredar]

I think the only thing that matters in this election, is voter enthusiasm. The hatred for Trump is great for the Democrats, but they will almost certainly need something more. The "who" didn't matter in 2020, so long as it wasn't Trump. The "who" in 2020 also doesn't matter so much, so long as it isn't Trump or Biden. Anyone besides Biden will spark enthusiasm in the Democrats for the next few months.

What most polls fail to track properly, is whether someone will actually vote, or how likely they are to actually drag their butts out the front door, and stand in line. It's not an all-or-nothing meter.

People don't like Harris, but she's going to help in November, if they pick her. It's not an ideal situation, but it is better than a slow drain on enthusiasm and donations that Biden will bring. Don't forget, the Democrats strongest policy position will be abortion, and the risk of further restrictions against women. White males will vote for Trump, there's no getting around it. The Dems need to convince women to get to the polls. Harris can do that better than Biden can.

The transition can be easy, Biden can say he's accepting that the time has come for him to hang up his hat, and he won't seek re-election. He can stand up and back Harris as his replacement on the ticket, and ask his supporters and delegates to give her the same support that they were kind enough to give to him.

It can be done as early as this weekend, or even next. let it resonate with people over a weekend, and let it dominate the news cycle and Sunday-morning pundit chatter.

The "budget" aspect of your demand makes very little sense. Donors are already pausing, because they want this change. Democrat donors aren't Biden fanboys, they are party people, and Trump haters.

Take that up with Biden, then.

Because I don’t think anybody is doubting the ability to find another candidate if Biden doesn’t want to run again.

What people are skeptical of is this proposed ouster to eject Biden from his role as the nominee to be replaced by… someone, somehow, through some vague process on an indeterminate timeline.

[fwc577]

Honestly, I'm done discussing the whole topic in general and this is the last thing I say on it.

Democrats either need to:

A -- Rally around Biden and ride him through the campaign. None of this "Another Democrat Lawmaker has come out..." bullshit we're getting in the news daily.

B -- Replace him ASAP. Like, Before Monday. And run with Kamala or whoever if Kamala is willing to be VP again or step aside. I don't care.

The MAIN reason people voted for Biden in 2020 and ousted Trump was because they were tired of the chaos. This bullshit with the Democrats right now is 100% chaos. It needs to be fixed and it needs to be fixed ASAP.

If Democrats can put their candidate forward within the next 72-120 hours, rally around that candidate, support that candidate, and stop with the BS, they will CRUISE to victory short of some major missteps.

People DON'T WANT TRUMP. People DON'T WANT CHAOS.

People want change.

If the current administration is doing nothing but Chaos, people will go for change, even if it is Donald Fuckface von Clownstick Trump.

[Doomcookie]

Take that up with Biden, then.

Because I don’t think anybody is doubting the ability to find another candidate if Biden doesn’t want to run again.

What people are skeptical of is this proposed ouster to eject Biden from his role as the nominee to be replaced by… someone, somehow, through some vague process on an indeterminate timeline.

I was merely answering that other person's questions about how it could be done.

It doesn't even have to be an "ouster." People just need to lay it out in front of Biden (and his family," and make it clear the implications of his actions/inaction.

It's honestly not that complicated to understand.

- - - Updated - - -

Honestly, I'm done discussing the whole topic in general and this is the last thing I say on it.

Democrats either need to:

A -- Rally around Biden and ride him through the campaign. None of this "Another Democrat Lawmaker has come out..." bullshit we're getting in the news daily.

B -- Replace him ASAP. Like, Before Monday. And run with Kamala or whoever if Kamala is willing to be VP again or step aside. I don't care.

The MAIN reason people voted for Biden in 2020 and ousted Trump was because they were tired of the chaos. This bullshit with the Democrats right now is 100% chaos. It needs to be fixed and it needs to be fixed ASAP.

If Democrats can put their candidate forward within the next 72-120 hours, rally around that candidate, support that candidate, and stop with the BS, they will CRUISE to victory short of some major missteps.

People DON'T WANT TRUMP. People DON'T WANT CHAOS.

People want change.

If the current administration is doing nothing but Chaos, people will go for change, even if it is Donald Fuckface von Clownstick Trump.

The funny thing is, voters are actually fine with chaos. It's energy, and energy gets people to the voting booth.

[fwc577]

The funny thing is, voters are actually fine with chaos. It's energy, and energy gets people to the voting booth.

Nope. Either Stability or Change is what brings the independents out.

2008 / 2012 was the campaign of Hope / Change

2016 was the campaign of Change by "draining the swamp"

2020 was the campaign of return to stability because 2016-2020 was filled with chaos

Chaos has not and will not win an election.

[Doomcookie]

Nope. Either Stability or Change is what brings the independents out.

2008 / 2012 was the campaign of Hope / Change

2016 was the campaign of Change by "draining the swamp"

2020 was the campaign of return to stability because 2016-2020 was filled with chaos

Chaos has not and will not win an election.

Change is chaos.

Here's the thing, it's far less chaotic than people actually think. People are getting whipped up by the "updates" every half hour, when they need to just stop worrying about it. This is going to come down to the leaders of the Democratic party getting as much information from pollsters and wonks as they can, and then trying to convince Biden that he should act in the best interest of the party itself.

The vast majority of people who do the actual work for an administration won't be changing.

That's why the smart move is to appeal to the family, because they will help to sway him.