Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Paranoid Android]

But the key point is that the conduct may not even be illegal. This is not a case where a codified crime was definitively violated and now the government has to prove that Musk was the one to violate it. It’s a case where Musk did something that might be illegal, depending on whether a judge (not a jury but a judge) agrees with the DOJ’s interpretation of the statute because it’s a question of law not of fact.

And it would be a federal judge in Pennsylvania whom the government could not select ahead of time. So it could be a Trump judge who then rules in Musk’s favor. And guess what happens then? You just made precedent that what he did is actually legal.

The shouts of “all criminals should be treated the same” are misplaced here because we don’t even know whether a crime has been committed.

It is illegal. You are wrong. Here is my lazy explanation of why.



Easy breakdown of why and why Musk should be immediately prosecuted.
@Fugus

I hate to say it, but definitely not the time to indict Musk.

If you indict now, you feed into the conservatives victim complex it might help Trump win and if Trump wins, his DoJ will immediately drop all charges, so nothing happens to either of them and they get off without consequences for their crimes.

My goodness this comment here is why the Republicans will run rough shot over the Dems all the time. Why are you advocating for a 2 Tier Justice System?

Pleas don't say you are worried about repercussions when there are none and should be none for breaking the law. If you are scared of a trump voter who or some musk shithead who will not vote for Kamala? You already conceded what Republicans want you to do; be scared and just not go through with justice.

[Valdhammer]

It is illegal. You are wrong. Here is my lazy explanation of why.



Easy breakdown of why and why Musk should be immediately prosecuted.
@Fugus



My goodness this comment here is why the Republicans will run rough shot over the Dems all the time. Why are you advocating for a 2 Tier Justice System?

Pleas don't say you are worried about repercussions when there are none and should be none for breaking the law. If you are scared of a trump voter who or some musk shithead who will not vote for Kamala? You already conceded what Republicans want you to do; be scared and just not go through with justice.

I encourage you to read what I wrote and to watch the video you linked again. You’ll find that the video supports my argument that whether or not Musk did anything wrong is a matter of statutory interpretation. The DOJ’s interpretation is that he did. My own interpretation is that he did. But the only interpretation that matters is the judge’s who gets the case. And if the DOJ gets an unfriendly judge, then they potentially blew up the election for no reason.

Again, I am not saying Musk shouldn’t be prosecuted. I think he should be prosecuted for a range of offenses. And I am also not saying that he shouldn’t be prosecuted today. I am saying that in this one instance I can understand Garland’s reticence because prosecuting a case like this can be a gamble.

All of the above can be true and it can also be true that I agree with you that the Garland DOJ has on the whole been soft on criminals in the Trump orbit in part because Trump has done a very effective job of politicizing the DOJ so there is a concerted effort to reverse that damage. However, that’s a very hard thing to do when perception matters more than the facts, and that is unfortunately the world we live in today.

You can argue that the DOJ shouldn’t care and should zealously prosecute all crimes. But you can also argue that some discretion should be exercised. I agree with the former approach because I think that worrying about how Trump, Musk and Fox News will react to things would be disastrous for everyone. But I also have the mental capacity for understanding and sympathizing with the opposite argument.

[Breccia]

I hate to say it, but definitely not the time to indict Musk.

I despise that you are right. People may vote for any reason, even hatred/spite/revenge. We're supposed to be a nation of rules and laws, but elections have become a popularity contest where a convicted felon who appoints rapists is allowed to compete. Just look at his supporters here. All they say is "lol MAGA 2024" and can't back as single thing their chosen overlord says or stands for.

[Bodakane]

That’s not the argument. It doesn’t matter what Trump will say. What matters is how voters will respond, and if you think prosecuting Musk will not cost Harris the election, you haven’t been paying attention to what’s actually happening in America.

Oh and also, what he did is more than likely not a crime.

I don't buy that at all.

If Musk broke the law, then hold him accountable. People are disenfranchised BECAUSE people like Musk aren't held accountable for anything.

[Shadowferal]

If Musk broke the law, then hold him accountable. People are disenfranchised BECAUSE people like Musk aren't held accountable for anything.

Just wait...

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I'm getting pretty tired of "we can't prosecute X before Y" excuses.

If it's election interference to prosecute someone before the election...it's election interference to NOT prosecute them before the election.

[Kaleredar]

I'm getting pretty tired of "we can't prosecute X before Y" excuses.

If it's election interference to prosecute someone before the election...it's election interference to NOT prosecute them before the election.

I think it's a simple matter of practicality. In that, practically, the DOJ can't just rip a "we accuse you of a crime, your court date is tomorrow." They need to get all of the legal framework in order and build a case to prosecute the accused. Internally there would be a great deal of research on what crimes Musk potentially committed and how to build a case to successfully prosecute it.

I don't think that's the kind of thing that's soup-to-nuts'ed in like... a week. Hell, they might even be moving on prosecuting Musk. But they're not going to announce that until they're actually able to move on it.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

I think it's a simple matter of practicality. In that, practically, the DOJ can't just rip a "we accuse you of a crime, your court date is tomorrow." They need to get all of the legal framework in order and build a case to prosecute the accused. Internally there would be a great deal of research on what crimes Musk potentially committed and how to build a case to successfully prosecute it.

I don't think that's the kind of thing that's soup-to-nuts'ed in like... a week. Hell, they might even be moving on prosecuting Musk. But they're not going to announce that until they're actually able to move on it.

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the people that say "wait until after the election"

[Kaleredar]

That's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the people that say "wait until after the election"

Fair enough. But I don't think there's any reality where from a sheer practical sense something like this would even be brought before the election, regardless of whether the DOJ was "averse" to doing so or not.

[AntiFascistVoter]

Thanks Biden!

Special Thanks to Mayo Pete! He's a real one. Derserves a lot of apologies he'll never get. Most of the character assasinations came from Jacobin and the Intercept. Guys that eneded up being shills for Putin and/or Musk.

US airlines are required to refund you for a canceled flight automatically

[Edge-]

Thanks Biden!

Special Thanks to Mayo Pete! He's a real one. Derserves a lot of apologies he'll never get. Most of the character assasinations came from Jacobin and the Intercept. Guys that eneded up being shills for Putin and/or Musk.

US airlines are required to refund you for a canceled flight automatically

But when's the CNN roundtable on how this is actually bad for the economy and will drive up ticket prices unfairly for all those that don't have their flights cancelled?

[postman1782]

And not surprising to anyone, Joe Biden Pardons his son for crimes about things that no one goes to jail for anyway.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/president-...y?id=116358693

[Captain N]

And not surprising to anyone, Joe Biden Pardons his son for crimes about things that no one goes to jail for anyway.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/president-...y?id=116358693

Don't worry though. The folks who support a felon found liable for sexual assault will be bigly mad about this!

[Somewhatconcerned]

Don't worry though. The folks who support a felon found liable for sexual assault will be bigly mad about this!

Corruption should always be called out, regardless.

Didn't Biden a few months ago claim he wouldn't pardon his son, and let the justice system do its thing?

Reason #15343 they are a dead party.

[Anastacy]

Corruption should always be called out, regardless.

Didn't Biden a few months ago claim he wouldn't pardon his son, and let the justice system do its thing?

Reason #15343 they are a dead party.

Don't Republicans claim to respect life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, and family values?

Tell us why you support several rapists, including the President-elect.

[Breccia]

Didn't Biden a few months ago claim he wouldn't pardon his son, and let the justice system do its thing?

Oh no, he said something then did something else. Your concern would be noted, if Trump hadn't done the same thousands of times over by now, and some people support him anyway. Anyone showing outrage, including you or I, should have that outrage handwaved as either sarcasm/joking or fake. The alternative is so objectively worse that it'd be complaining about jaywalkers while a murderer runs rampant.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Oh no, he said something then did something else. Your concern would be noted, if Trump hadn't done the same thousands of times over by now, and some people support him anyway. Anyone showing outrage, including you or I, should have that outrage handwaved as either sarcasm/joking or fake. The alternative is so objectively worse that it'd be complaining about jaywalkers while a murderer runs rampant.

Sorry, "but Trump" doesn't work anymore.

[Breccia]

Sorry, "but Trump" doesn't work anymore.

Objectively false comment. Trump, who is far more corrupt, got the popular vote. Therefore, corruption doesn't matter and "but Trump" is the standard.

[Somewhatconcerned]

Objectively false comment. Trump, who is far more corrupt, got the popular vote. Therefore, corruption doesn't matter and "but Trump" is the standard.

You're still doing it. Oh well.

Dems have zero credibility left, anyway. Good take:

https://x.com/WalshFreedom/status/1863400446569676813

[gondrin]

You're still doing it. Oh well.

Dems have zero credibility left, anyway. Good take:

https://x.com/WalshFreedom/status/1863400446569676813

So, how about that Jared Kushner? I mean, Trump sure as hell pardoned him.