1. #2141
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Question yourself if he does pass M4A how he got there from I will veto it
    By doing something progressives can’t seem to do... the cost...

    Think about it... if you actually give a shit about M4A. What’s the proper response to Biden saying he will veto it, if the cost isn’t established? Is it to complain that he won’t sign it or show him the cost so he doesn’t have an excuse?

    You can guess which way I lean...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  2. #2142
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    By doing something progressives can’t seem to do... the cost...

    Think about it... if you actually give a shit about M4A. What’s the proper response to Biden saying he will veto it, if the cost isn’t established? Is it to complain that he won’t sign it or show him the cost so he doesn’t have an excuse?

    You can guess which way I lean...
    Costs are and have always been a shield used by both Democrats and Republicans to not do a thing...

    Recall that one major problem we have is it was made illegal for the government to negotiate the price of prescriptions... a fucking bogus thing that makes no sense. Where the money will come from will be the wealthy.

    I mean he could just pull an FDR we are in that moment now aren't we. But remember that FDR was pushed so far because of tremendous pressure from the very left that at the time had three parties and was way more established back then, than the left is today.

    The issue is, and I posted about this before... America keeps trying to do medicare for all while also leaving out prescription and costs of care reform. They say some passive "we will lower prescription prices" with what legislation? What negotiation? The negotiation is illegal so is there a repeal of that to allow it?

    Right now Biden is in "lower costs" mode, but how? It isn't exactly fleshed out...

    How about a law saying the government gets a part of any profits for medicine and pays a steeply discounted price for it if government funds were used in its production. Considering.... every single approved medication has government funds.... I think that could work.
    Last edited by Themius; 2021-01-23 at 03:02 PM.

  3. #2143
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Costs are and have always been a shield used by both Democrats and Republicans to not do a thing...
    We are not disagreeing here... the issue is how to break the shield. I think establishing the cost, so there is no excuse, is far better than figuring out who to blame. I’m personally tired of pointing out to conservatives, that we already pay more than we need for healthcare. I would like there to be an actual policy page that lays out the cost. So I can just link that, instead of posting a novel. It works on both the macro and micro...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  4. #2144
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    We are not disagreeing here... the issue is how to break the shield. I think establishing the cost, so there is no excuse, is far better than figuring out who to blame. I’m personally tired of pointing out to conservatives, that we already pay more than we need for healthcare. I would like there to be an actual policy page that lays out the cost. So I can just link that, instead of posting a novel. It works on both the macro and micro...
    I think the way to break that shield is to simply push harder from within and outside of the party from he left. Not to let things lie and try to work and compromise... that hasn't ever worked. Compromising with Republicans doesn't work, and nor does the left compromising with the democrats. If there is any compromise it should be met with more pressure for what you actually want. We have been through this time and time again and history has pretty much shown us the errors of getting comfortable and taking a breather... things begin to go back.

    The solution there is for the majority to know that America pays more than any other developed nation for healthcare that actively bankrupts and kills them and the reason that is is because our own government decided to say it can't negotiate pricing because our government is corrupt af and filled with people who are considering where to land once they're done in Washington.

    Do I want that job on merks board? Better play nice!

    The thing is Biden knows... anyone who works in Washington damn well knows the issues of costs and how we got there. It's the public who is woefully ignorant and therefore doesn't use that argument to force the change. The democrats the republicans they all know it, but few, besides Bernie screams it. Katie Porter, AOC, some of the other progressives but they're a relatively small part.

  5. #2145
    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    @Themius you seem super confused buddy. I’m pushing for M4A and more. What I’m not doing is wasting time crying about Biden since he’ll sign pretty much any progressive legislation that actually makes it to his desk. I’m lobbying Congress to get that legislation done so it can make it to Biden’s desk. Until Biden does some horrible shit I’m going to give him credit for what he has done. So far he hasn’t fallen short with any of his actions, imo. There’s more I’d like to see get done, but he can’t just do that shit with the stroke of a pen.
    He has fallen short in some of his picks and opinions already... in my view. The thing I am not celebrating Biden as a person I am as content as I can be with the pick, and am more concerned with what the outside forces on Biden will do in order to get progressive things done.

    Out of the gate... he takes a similar stance as Trump to Venezuela with his pick Blinken being no better...

    His foreign policy is honestly not very different from Trump or Bush or Obama. I mean look at his idea for fucking Iran.

    Hinting at these flaws, Biden recently said he wants to build on the 2015 deal with a new agreement to “tighten and lengthen Iran’s nuclear constraints, as we address the missile program.”
    This makes no fucking sense.

    Look at it from Iran's perspective.

    "So we were in a deal with the USA and a couple years later the USA undid it... now they have another president who wants us in the deal again which we didn't break but now they want tighter restrictions are they betrayed their word..."

    Not to mention all the tough sanctions... oh yeah that'll get them to work!

  6. #2146
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Look at it from Iran's perspective.

    "So we were in a deal with the USA and a couple years later the USA undid it... now they have another president who wants us in the deal again which we didn't break but now they want tighter restrictions are they betrayed their word..."

    Not to mention all the tough sanctions... oh yeah that'll get them to work!
    It's not just Iran that is paying attention to how we deal with Iran. Every other country in the world knows that they could be next. The US plays hard ball. Other countries will start factoring that into their negotiating stances.

  7. #2147
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    It's not just Iran that is paying attention to how we deal with Iran. Every other country in the world knows that they could be next. The US plays hard ball. Other countries will start factoring that into their negotiating stances.
    maybe they'll just take us less seriously and exclude the US from deals later. The us doesn't play "hard ball" they play world immperialist. Hell at one point the US was considering a sort of title like that when they started taking over islands.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vegas82 View Post
    Iran is already saying they’re on board for re-entering the 2015 deal... details will be negotiated.
    Yes they're on board, but they're not exactly on board with the US wanting to not just re-enter but re-enter and boulster.

  8. #2148
    I'm reminded of an acquaintance of mine that quit his support of the GOP during Obama's term when Libya was giung through their "spring," and the GOP complained about not helping them. And when the admin enforced a no-fly zone the GOP turned about-face and cried about escalation. "Fuck the GOP. I no longer have a party."

  9. #2149
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    I'm reminded of an acquaintance of mine that quit his support of the GOP during Obama's term when Libya was giung through their "spring," and the GOP complained about not helping them. And when the admin enforced a no-fly zone the GOP turned about-face and cried about escalation. "Fuck the GOP. I no longer have a party."
    Another issue that the republican party is backtracking on?

    Even the least bit of cooperation with the Biden administration.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/imperilin...093024429.html

    Title: Imperiling quick $1,400 checks, moderate Republicans push back on Biden's economic plan

    Excerpts:

    Key moderate Republicans in the Senate dismissed quick action on President Joe Biden's top priority of a $1.9 trillion economic package, indicating that the $1,400 stimulus payments he requested could take months, or never arrive.
    There are many quotes from moderate republican Senators, and the Mitt Romney one is the most to the point.

    Sen. Mitt Romney R-Utah, a conservative who has a track record of breaking with his party, told NBC News that he isn't inclined to borrow another $1 trillion or even $500 billion for a broad economic package.

    "My own view is that what's holding back the economy is Covid, not money," he said. "I want to do everything we can to get the Covid vaccines out. But once the Covid vaccine is out and people are inoculated, I believe you'll see the economy coming back."
    In short, democrats can get exactly one bill through Congress over the next 2 years. At this point, everything else is just posturing for the 2022 elections, as well as using Executive Orders and Federal Agencies to enact as much policy as is reasonable to do.

    And of course, make that one big bill count It's what democrats will be running on in 2022.

  10. #2150
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Another issue that the republican party is backtracking on?

    Even the least bit of cooperation with the Biden administration.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/imperilin...093024429.html

    Title: Imperiling quick $1,400 checks, moderate Republicans push back on Biden's economic plan

    Excerpts:



    There are many quotes from moderate republican Senators, and the Mitt Romney one is the most to the point.



    In short, democrats can get exactly one bill through Congress over the next 2 years. At this point, everything else is just posturing for the 2022 elections, as well as using Executive Orders and Federal Agencies to enact as much policy as is reasonable to do.

    And of course, make that one big bill count It's what democrats will be running on in 2022.
    Mitt "250k is middle-class income" Romney?

  11. #2151
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    It always seemed to me that Biden was/is left of Obama on some things, and not willing to play the isdues as political chips to play. Obama shied away from the LGBT issue until Biden "gaffed" to the press about his full support.
    I mean that's right if you ignore Biden's entire career and not the 8 years as a powerless VP who was gearing up for retirement.


    Supposedly the Biden administration is working direct help to families. It will be great if the measure passes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Yes they're on board, but they're not exactly on board with the US wanting to not just re-enter but re-enter and boulster.
    I'm not trying to be on Iran's side but if the re-enter on the same terms then they deserve to be screwed over again. Absolutely no way they'd re-enter without some favorable incentives.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Reading the last few pages

    Are some people actually arguing that progressives shouldnt take credit for pulling the part left? What kind of backwards logic...


    Biden is a very well established centrists.
    Progressives lobby for progressive policies
    Biden mentions said policies.

    Insecure Liberals: "STFU you progressive socialist. We were pushing that agenda all along. So what if we've never mentioned it before and it's the only thing you've talked about for the last 4 years. Look at the 'Cosplay Leftists' complain about us cosplaying as progressives. They aren't even complaining yet? Let's back them into a corner until they do! "

    Gahdamn. I swear some core Dems hate allies from left more than they hate McConnell's GOP.
    Last edited by PACOX; 2021-01-23 at 09:43 PM.

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  12. #2152
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post

    Gahdamn. I swear some core Dems hate allies from left more than they hate McConnell's GOP.
    Sometimes it feels like Biden supporters view McConnell > lefties like me = Trump.

    They bring up anti-lefty stuff up in the oddest places too, many times out of the blue

  13. #2153
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega10 View Post
    Another issue that the republican party is backtracking on?

    Even the least bit of cooperation with the Biden administration.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/imperilin...093024429.html

    Title: Imperiling quick $1,400 checks, moderate Republicans push back on Biden's economic plan

    Excerpts:



    There are many quotes from moderate republican Senators, and the Mitt Romney one is the most to the point.



    In short, democrats can get exactly one bill through Congress over the next 2 years. At this point, everything else is just posturing for the 2022 elections, as well as using Executive Orders and Federal Agencies to enact as much policy as is reasonable to do.

    And of course, make that one big bill count It's what democrats will be running on in 2022.
    Unless that bill is a combination of M4A and another new deal with the government raising taxes and hiring people like FDR had to do to remain in control.... looks like it'll be a bad 2022 and a bad 2024.

  14. #2154

  15. #2155
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Catturd is an idiotic Trumper,

    Trump repeatedly refused to work with the Biden's Transition, The Biden administration found out that Trump had no plan to deal with the Coronavirus.

    This is still Trump's fault.
    A Fetus is not a person under the 14th amendment.

    Christians are Forced Birth Fascists against Human Rights who indoctrinate and groom children. Prove me wrong.

  16. #2156
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    https://bigmemes.funnyjunk.com/pictures/Knotty+tangible+duck_00e9e0_8218288.png
    Nothing in that image is true... don’t you have lies about Nevalny to spread?

    Can't believe the shitshow continues. He's even steady on the way to beat trump's 200K record in just two months

    Just four more years of building america better again
    Because Trump had no plan and Biden been president for less than 4 days?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by szechuan View Post
    Catturd is an idiotic Trumper,

    Trump repeatedly refused to work with the Biden's Transition, The Biden administration found out that Trump had no plan to deal with the Coronavirus.

    This is still Trump's fault.
    Deflecting from riots on their streets...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  17. #2157
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post


    Can't believe the shitshow continues. He's even steady on the way to beat trump's 200K record in just two months



    Just four more years of building america better again
    Wow, whoever the retard is that is tweeting this bullshit, is a fucking moron.

  18. #2158
    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Funnyjunk links of literally who spouting off objectively false bullshit? Why should anyone give a shit, mein duden?

  19. #2159
    The Undying Breccia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yadryonych View Post
    Can't believe the shitshow continues.
    I know, right? Trump's dereliction of his duty is killing four thousand Americans a day. And because he incited a riot the federal government required 25,000 troops on short notice to defend the White House against a second Trump murderous insurrection.

    Glad we're on the same page.

  20. #2160
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Funnyjunk links of literally who spouting off objectively false bullshit? Why should anyone give a shit, mein duden?
    To be fair... one thing change... suddenly things like covid matter... that’s already a dramatic improvement. People are back to caring about a pandemic, instead of how far Trump can shit on the US.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

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