Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Goliad]

Seriously, if they were spinning the reins like that to whip across their horse's flanks, I'd be pissed about the animal cruelty involved. No cause at all for that shit.

So you would rather the thousands of pounds animals would crush the migrants running up to them. Horses in that profession are used to being hit by reins, they respond to it. And as broken in as any horse that doesn't mean the horse is accustomed to the terrain and still needs guidance. Your tone has changed from one of them whipping migrants to spinning at them and not hitting migrants, does that mean the photographer and I are still lying? I saw no lashing out at anyone in the twitter video, please tell me on there when they lashed out please so I can clearly see it. I am glad you recalled your experience at a 3 day retreat at a horse ranch, I could conjure up years of being in 4H in high school, but it's anecdotally meaningless, just like your ranch story. Your tone changed because nobody was whipped in the video and you had to change your agenda objective.

[jonnysensible]

So you would rather the thousands of pounds animals would crush the migrants running up to them. Horses in that profession are used to being hit by reins, they respond to it. And as broken in as any horse that doesn't mean the horse is accustomed to the terrain and still needs guidance. Your tone has changed from one of them whipping migrants to spinning at them and not hitting migrants, does that mean the photographer and I are still lying? I saw no lashing out at anyone in the twitter video, please tell me on there when they lashed out please so I can clearly see it. I am glad you recalled your experience at a 3 day retreat at a horse ranch, I could conjure up years of being in 4H in high school, but it's anecdotally meaningless, just like your ranch story. Your tone changed because nobody was whipped in the video and you had to change your agenda objective.

if you watch that video and dont see the border patrol man using his horse to menace and his straps to threaten you must not have watched the video. No amount of gaslighting will help im afraid.

[Goliad]

Boy, it sounds like you've never even been on a horse.

Again, I have. And turning the horse is not a matter of whipping them.

And if you'd actually watched the videos, you'd notice that the border patrol agents seem to be having no trouble at all turning their horses when not whipping them. The only time the reins go spinning is when the hand holding the reins is directly in front of a migrant.

My history with horses has no bearing on what transpired here, but I have been around horses before. In the video you clearly see him hit the horse with the reins. You still have not answered the question on whether you think he was trying to whip the migrant, are you afraid to answer? Or do you just not want to answer?

[Endus]

So you would rather the thousands of pounds animals would crush the migrants running up to them. Horses in that profession are used to being hit by reins, they respond to it. And as broken in as any horse that doesn't mean the horse is accustomed to the terrain and still needs guidance. Your tone has changed from one of them whipping migrants to spinning at them and not hitting migrants, does that mean the photographer and I are still lying? I saw no lashing out at anyone in the twitter video, please tell me on there when they lashed out please so I can clearly see it. I am glad you recalled your experience at a 3 day retreat at a horse ranch, I could conjure up years of being in 4H in high school, but it's anecdotally meaningless, just like your ranch story. Your tone changed because nobody was whipped in the video and you had to change your agenda objective.

Nope. You're just sealioning, without anything to back it up.

The "defense" has been that they were reins, not whips.

But "whipping" is a verb, and it can be done with tools other than a whip (noun). Saying "they were reins, not whips" is deliberately dishonest, and an attempt to deflect.

And it doesn't matter if anyone was struck. What matters is they used the reins to drive people. Which they clearly did.

If you're gonna claim that it's to keep migrants away from the horses, they had a much easier alternative; ride away and don't let the horses get in that close to the migrants. So clearly, that wasn't the concern.

My tone hasn't "changed", other than that I have identifed you as a bad-faith poster who's pushing an agenda.

[Goliad]

if you watch that video and dont see the border patrol man using his horse to menace and his straps to threaten you must not have watched the video. No amount of gaslighting will help im afraid.

tell me at what point so I can clearly see the menacing with the horse. The migrants did not care about the border patrol agents and were doing whatever they could to get by them. What is the point of law enforcement on the border if they are not to be detour-rants? Joe Biden is the root cause of this. Changing the policy to basically invite anyone to try to come across the border is on him. Everything that is happening is on him. He said the agents are going to pay, then Psaki runs cover for him saying he is not trying to influence the investigation in to what happened. How can it not when the Chief of the executive branch says they must pay. You can pretend this is gaslighting, because like the media, you have your agenda. At no point is anyone blaming Biden for this clusterfuck. It's like the bombing in Afghanistan that killed 10 civilians including 7 children, why is no one getting fired over that? Using taliban intel to kill civilians and it's just a casualty of what America's military does.

You agenda driven people, ask yourselves this.....how would you be reacting if Trump was President right now? You'd be all up his ass demanding people be fired over Afghanistan and the border.

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Nope. You're just sealioning, without anything to back it up.

The "defense" has been that they were reins, not whips.

But "whipping" is a verb, and it can be done with tools other than a whip (noun). Saying "they were reins, not whips" is deliberately dishonest, and an attempt to deflect.

And it doesn't matter if anyone was struck. What matters is they used the reins to drive people. Which they clearly did.

If you're gonna claim that it's to keep migrants away from the horses, they had a much easier alternative; ride away and don't let the horses get in that close to the migrants. So clearly, that wasn't the concern.

My tone hasn't "changed", other than that I have identifed you as a bad-faith poster who's pushing an agenda.

So your solution is to "ride away" and don't do your job and let them just run free in to America....AND I HAVE AN AGENDA?

First I am a liar, and now like you, I am a "bad-faith poster who's pushing an agenda". Your agenda is to make the border patrol into a giant Trumpian villain to distract from the real people to blame here. Joe Biden and his administration. He created this problem and you need distractions for the military murdering civilians in Afghanistan. Here's a question for you....why has Joe Biden never visited the southern border. Not as a senator, not as vp, not as a concerned citizen and definitely not as President. Why does he go to every crisis area like Louisiana and New jersey for weather related crisis, but not the border? Oh he gave that to Kamala to let her drown in that deep end. Never visited the border in his life. No agenda, just facts.

[PhaelixWW]

My history with horses has no bearing on what transpired here

You opened the door:

If you have ever tried to turn a horse you would know the difficulty in it.

In the video you clearly see him hit the horse with the reins.

In the video, you clearly see him swing the reins in a threatening manner in the face of a migrant. In the video, you also see him turn his horse many times without whipping the horse.

You still have not answered the question on whether you think he was trying to whip the migrant, are you afraid to answer? Or do you just not want to answer?

Neither.

I think he was trying to back the migrant off by whipping the reins near his face. Whether or not he cared about actually hitting the migrant, you'd probably have to be a mind-reader to figure that out.

But it was obviously a threatening move to anybody who isn't blinded by bias.

[Machismo]

How am I lying by posting what a photographer says? How is that me lying? Again you are misconstruing what is seen, as the photographer says. That is in no way me lying because you are seeing what you want to see. You have an agenda, and i have eye witness account of what was happening.

https://twitter.com/StorytellerSBM/s...995736069?s=20


You can clearly see he whips his horse with the reins to turn him. If you have ever tried to turn a horse you would know the difficulty in it.

Now, I haven't ridden horses all my life, but I've ridden them enough. I have never used the reins to whip a horse to turn. Traditionally, that's done to spur them to go faster. You pull on one side of the reins to turn them.

Now, I could be wrong, but that's the way I've seen.

[PhaelixWW]

Now, I haven't ridden horses all my life, but I've ridden them enough. I have never used the reins to whip a horse to turn. Traditionally, that's done to spur them to go faster. You pull on one side of the reins to turn them.

Now, I could be wrong, but that's the way I've seen.

If the horse is trained properly, you generally just have to let the reins touch the opposite side of the horse's neck to get them to turn.

[Machismo]

If the horse is trained properly, you generally just have to let the reins touch the opposite side of the horse's neck to get them to turn.

Yes, exactly, it's not that difficult. My daughter does English riding, I did some Western riding. Western riding is more active with the hands and reins, but it's still not about whipping the horse for turning. Whipping, which is usually much lighter than one would expect (other than actual horse races) is meant to communicate to the horse what you want. And yes, that means to tell them to move faster, not to turn.

Honestly, this seems like shit you'd see in a terrible Western movie.

[jonnysensible]

You agenda driven people, ask yourselves this.....how would you be reacting if Trump was President right now? You'd be all up his ass demanding people be fired over Afghanistan and the border.

im not reading all the rest of that braindead drivel but my 1st post was literally blaming biden. and endus called for people to be fired. You are clearly just a trump loving weirdo. 'agenda' lmao fuck off.

Those people have the right to seek asylum, they shouldnt be being harrassed by some cunt on a horse.

[Breccia]

So let's talk about Biden's vaccine mandate.

He expects federal contractors to be vaccinated by Dec 8, so because of the time between doses, they'd better get a move-on.

Oh, and so far, the courts seem to be siding with Biden. Not that he's been in court, but other cases that have, sided with the mandate.

1) This hospital in Kentucky.

2) The Massachusetts state police.

3) These NY teachers. This one is being appealed, and is temporarily blocked until the appeal is handled.

In each case, the judge ruled that the vaccine mandate was allowed. Both businesses and governments seem to have the authority to do this, suggesting that Biden can do this, too.

Mentioned:

Actual liberty for all of us cannot exist where individual liberties override potential injury done to others.

and

Suspicions cannot override the law

At issue, for Biden at least, is a century-old vaccine case in which states were ruled to have this authority. Basically, just because you're allowed to have a gun doesn't mean you're allowed to fire it randomly in city streets without being arrested. What you feel are your rights get heavily restricted when they can injure or kill unrelated strangers. I'll add "shouting fire in a crowded theater" too, why not.

Bear in mind, none of the above court challenges were, say, New Jersey going door-to-door jabbing law-abiding citizens against their will. They were all people who chose to work as front-line, yes teachers count while kids can't be vaccinated and class is in-person. If they feel that strongly that the vaccine is a dangerous risk, well they're wrong, but they can find work in another state less likely to keep them alive. Or, they could strike. I can't imagine they'd get a ton of sympathy, but they could do it, especially the NYState teachers. I'm not convinced it's a good idea to make yourself at risk for being fired right this second...but it's an option. Nobody's being jabbed at gunpoint.

Biden's mandate for federal contractors, I assume from the President being set, should follow the same rules. It's not like companies are working for the federal government at gunpoint. A business is free to say "Well we'd like that lucrative contract, but Bob from Accounting thinks there's aborted feti in the needles and Jim the janitor thinks there's a microchip, and I'd rather have the whole company pass on the offer rather than make them get the safe, effective, life-saving medicine...or replace them with people who aren't nutso". This is America, we're capitalists, they can vote with their pay cut.

[Elegiac]

You can clearly see he whips his horse with the reins to turn him.

Then terminate him on animal cruelty charges.

[Endus]

So your solution is to "ride away" and don't do your job and let them just run free in to America....AND I HAVE AN AGENDA?

If you can't do your job without committing crimes against humanity, yeah. You pull back and don't commit those crimes. No legitimate job requires you to do things like that.

I'll also note that even in the case of direct orders, you're ethically obliged to refuse such unlawful orders. When you act on them, you're complicit, and you don't get to pull the "just following orders" sham.

Your agenda is to make the border patrol into a giant Trumpian villain to distract from the real people to blame here. Joe Biden and his administration.

I didn't make them do this. If they chose to do villainous things, I'm not "making them a villain", I'm just noticing they're a villain.

I'm demanding they be held accountable.

He created this problem and you need distractions for the military murdering civilians in Afghanistan.

Nope on both fronts.

Also, there was no "problem". If migrants are seeking asylum, the only response Border Patrol needs to engage in is to direct them to the relevant offices and wish them a wonderful day. Maybe offer them some food and water and directions to where they can find shelter, if they've been roughing it like these folks.

Here's a question for you....why has Joe Biden never visited the southern border. Not as a senator, not as vp, not as a concerned citizen and definitely not as President. Why does he go to every crisis area like Louisiana and New jersey for weather related crisis, but not the border? Oh he gave that to Kamala to let her drown in that deep end. Never visited the border in his life. No agenda, just facts.

Irrelevant shit that means nothing and deserves no response.

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im not reading all the rest of that braindead drivel but my 1st post was literally blaming biden. and endus called for people to be fired. You are clearly just a trump loving weirdo. 'agenda' lmao fuck off.

Like, I think the firings need to go all the way to the top of the Border Patrol, in this case. I'm not talking about just the officers involved, anyone who has defended their actions or has contributed to the training that led to these officers thinking this was acceptable. Fire all those people.

I'm not the one playing defense for people like this.

It's also hilarious that people think I am defending Biden. I've been condemning the man pretty heavily since early on in his campaign, and I haven't gotten sunnier on him. I think his "folksy wisdom" garbage is borderline insulting, honestly, and don't see why some find it charming.

But, does he have direct responsibility for this? No. Did he condemn it directly? Yes. Am I giving him time to take relevant actions? Sure, I'm not an idiot and I know things like this take time. I'll crap on Biden for actual problems, but this isn't Biden's failure.

[D Luniz]

When someone comes back to a forum after a decade, and goes right to posting shit like the last bunch of posts you have in this thread, and a handful of other posts complaining about "woke" things, I'd wager other people aren't really the agenda-driven ones.

its just a long-lived burner alt
they don't all get used like a meseeks

[Machismo]

tell me at what point so I can clearly see the menacing with the horse. The migrants did not care about the border patrol agents and were doing whatever they could to get by them. What is the point of law enforcement on the border if they are not to be detour-rants? Joe Biden is the root cause of this. Changing the policy to basically invite anyone to try to come across the border is on him. Everything that is happening is on him. He said the agents are going to pay, then Psaki runs cover for him saying he is not trying to influence the investigation in to what happened. How can it not when the Chief of the executive branch says they must pay. You can pretend this is gaslighting, because like the media, you have your agenda. At no point is anyone blaming Biden for this clusterfuck. It's like the bombing in Afghanistan that killed 10 civilians including 7 children, why is no one getting fired over that? Using taliban intel to kill civilians and it's just a casualty of what America's military does.

You agenda driven people, ask yourselves this.....how would you be reacting if Trump was President right now? You'd be all up his ass demanding people be fired over Afghanistan and the border.

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So your solution is to "ride away" and don't do your job and let them just run free in to America....AND I HAVE AN AGENDA?

First I am a liar, and now like you, I am a "bad-faith poster who's pushing an agenda". Your agenda is to make the border patrol into a giant Trumpian villain to distract from the real people to blame here. Joe Biden and his administration. He created this problem and you need distractions for the military murdering civilians in Afghanistan. Here's a question for you....why has Joe Biden never visited the southern border. Not as a senator, not as vp, not as a concerned citizen and definitely not as President. Why does he go to every crisis area like Louisiana and New jersey for weather related crisis, but not the border? Oh he gave that to Kamala to let her drown in that deep end. Never visited the border in his life. No agenda, just facts.

First off, you see multiple times that he is using the horse to threaten the guy. It's not even a question, as the aggressive nature is clear.

That being said, the CBP is rather Trumpian, and it's getting worse. I work with a group that collects data on social media and other sites, and uses it to track down extremist assholes. Our main focus is government employees and contractors. From what we've seen, some of which has been shown to the public in the leak, that CBP has a major problem. There was even a poster on this forum that was outed, and summarily booted from the CBP. Now, I will say that DHS is probably worse, at least in the rhetoric from their employees in the Southwest.

Those private Facebook groups and "officer only" websites are a treasure trove of evidence, and people still believe they won't get caught, if they use usernames. The only problem is that they use the same usernames across multiple platforms a great deal of the time. They also use the exact same language on those platforms, often times cutting/pasting it to their personal Facebook pages. Ironically enough, I stopped using Facebook, because it's a shitshow. But, it still works to out racist asshats.

Now, that's a bit of a tangent, but there's a reason. We know that CBP has a major racism issue in its ranks. We know what they say when they think nobody is listening. We know this, because they are being outed by their fellow officers, and even other federal employees. It's really not that difficult to gain the trust of racist assholes. Be white, be unassuming, and pretend to be sympathetic... and they will take care of the rest.

[D3thray]

First off, you see multiple times that he is using the horse to threaten the guy. It's not even a question, as the aggressive nature is clear.

That being said, the CBP is rather Trumpian, and it's getting worse. I work with a group that collects data on social media and other sites, and uses it to track down extremist assholes. Our main focus is government employees and contractors. From what we've seen, some of which has been shown to the public in the leak, that CBP has a major problem. There was even a poster on this forum that was outed, and summarily booted from the CBP. Now, I will say that DHS is probably worse, at least in the rhetoric from their employees in the Southwest.

Those private Facebook groups and "officer only" websites are a treasure trove of evidence, and people still believe they won't get caught, if they use usernames. The only problem is that they use the same usernames across multiple platforms a great deal of the time. They also use the exact same language on those platforms, often times cutting/pasting it to their personal Facebook pages. Ironically enough, I stopped using Facebook, because it's a shitshow. But, it still works to out racist asshats.

Now, that's a bit of a tangent, but there's a reason. We know that CBP has a major racism issue in its ranks. We know what they say when they think nobody is listening. We know this, because they are being outed by their fellow officers, and even other federal employees. It's really not that difficult to gain the trust of racist assholes. Be white, be unassuming, and pretend to be sympathetic... and they will take care of the rest.

Experience aside as it appears you have more direct interactions than I with respect to CBP, are you implying you only see instances of white racists being covered for in CBP or that a majority of racists in CBP are white?

Don’t mean to get into the weeds but I guess I’m hypersensitive to framing these days.

[Elegiac]

Experience aside as it appears you have more direct interactions than I with respect to CBP, are you implying you only see instances of white racists being covered for in CBP or that a majority of racists in CBP are white?

Fairly telling that this is what you're choosing to harp on rather than... you know... the abuses CBP and ICE are committing.

[Machismo]

Experience aside as it appears you have more direct interactions than I with respect to CBP, are you implying you only see instances of white racists being covered for in CBP or that a majority of racists in CBP are white?

Don’t mean to get into the weeds but I guess I’m hypersensitive to framing these days.

The poster from this forum was a white male. Most of the people we've found in government employment were white males, with a low number of females. Ironically, we did find a Lebanese guy who was part of the "European Identity" movement, but was actually outed, because he went on a rage when the groups wouldn't let him in. That one made me chuckle. I'm not implying that's the only thing I've seen, but that is what the main rot is.

I wouldn't say I only see that, but the strong majority that I have seen is that type.

Lots of racism.

Lots of support for "Western chauvinism."

Lots of hatred for immigrants, both legal and illegal.

Lots of hatred of liberals, especially the "Squad."

I definitely don't have all the numbers, but I can say that hundreds have been outed.

[D3thray]

The poster from this forum was a white male. Most of the people we've found in government employment were white males, with a low number of females. Ironically, we did find a Lebanese guy who was part of the "European Identity" movement, but was actually outed, because he went on a rage when the groups wouldn't let him in. That one made me chuckle. I'm not implying that's the only thing I've seen, but that is what the main rot is.

I wouldn't say I only see that, but the strong majority that I have seen is that type.

Lots of racism.

Lots of support for "Western chauvinism."

Lots of hatred for immigrants, both legal and illegal.

Lots of hatred of liberals, especially the "Squad."

I definitely don't have all the numbers, but I can say that hundreds have been outed.

Definitely explains a lot more about your perspectives, thanks

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Fairly telling that this is what you're choosing to harp on rather than... you know... the abuses CBP and ICE are committing.

Not at all, but if we’re bringing race into the mix I like to know exactly what we’re talking about. Plus Machismo self admits to working in a field I have little experience with so I was curious as to where they were coming from.

[Machismo]

Definitely explains a lot more about your perspectives, thanks

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Not at all, but if we’re bringing race into the mix I like to know exactly what we’re talking about. Plus Machismo self admits to working in a field I have little experience with so I was curious as to where they were coming from.

Yep, I get to see all sorts of racist shitbags. Sadly, the CBP, DHS, police departments, DOD, and military have lots of them.

Do you know what almost every single one of them has in common? They are Trump supporters.

I should note, that's not the field I work in, that started as a hobby, tracking how the usage of buzzwords spreads, and it ties in somewhat with a small company I own, which deals a great deal with advertising, behavior, and decision making. But, that area and the spread of white supremacy and ethno-nationalism aren't far apart.