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  1. #21
    Yes, it is certainly complicated for people who don't take some time to actually find out about these systems who instead rush to the Internet to spam shitty complaining threads all day about how the game has evolved too much from "push W, A, S, D" to what it is now.


    For everybody else, it's not complex. Even without multiple degrees.


    Which one are you?
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2020-11-21 at 12:45 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    so we're talking about making a choice based on about TWELVE sub-tree
    Jeeesus Christ, TWELVE THINGS

    How will Xxarthasxx deal with such complexity???!11
    ...

    Same way he and everyone else dealt with choosing a class and a spec: he'll go with whatever is prettier or look at some guide.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Melliodas View Post
    I will admit this is a lot confusing for the average player.
    This is entirely the point, if you've read any of Blizzard's statements on Covenants.

    Not to be complex per se, but to not have a clear-cut best choice.

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire guisadop's Avatar
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    Unless you want everything 100% optimized it's pretty simple really
    ...that's just my opinion, anyway.

  5. #25
    So that's rather a good thing, no? Or you prefer to have one choice that is the best by far so that you don't have to think too much?

  6. #26
    Just see what sims the best. It's one dps spell and a support spell followed by a lot of passives. It's best to not over think it.

  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melliodas View Post
    I will admit this is a lot confusing for the average player.
    The average player will actually do the thing that the devs designed it for.

    Pick what looks/plays cool and not give a flying fuck about numbers.

    It's almost funny how hard some people on this site are in their echo-chambers and bubbles, thank god i have some casual friends who retain me from that sad fate.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    You have 4 covenants each of which has 2 major abilities that are completely different and unique and WITHIN EACH of those covenants there are 3 soulbinds that have an ENTIRE TREE of again relatively unique abilities (at least within the covenant) so we're talking about making a choice based on about TWELVE sub-trees and extra differences beyond those.
    This should had been clearly simpler because I'm one of those idiots that have multiple degrees in the sciences and I still think this is not easy to wrap around your head for a coherent all around big picture decision.
    I know right, sees pretty bitching.

  9. #29
    Is it more complex than class choice?

    Would it matter if it was?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    The average player will actually do the thing that the devs designed it for.

    Pick what looks/plays cool and not give a flying fuck about numbers.

    It's almost funny how hard some people on this site are in their echo-chambers and bubbles, thank god i have some casual friends who retain me from that sad fate.
    But you dont actually know what other players will do, do you? Or do you speak on behalf of the entire playerbase?

    Just because you prefer one playstyle over something else doesnt mean people doing something else are "sad", thats pretty silly.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post

    Just wait for us scary "mythic raider elitists" to pick the most optimal and then rest of u can just copy what we do.
    which is a dumbass players' mistake.... for some specs, some talents might offer higher gains when played perfectly, these same talents often result in damage losses when utilized by many players. for those players, a passive talent or 2 instead of an active button for exemple, will allow them to screw over less often and be more productive and more focus on what is happening around them.

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire LuckyOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melliodas View Post
    But you dont actually know what other players will do, do you? Or do you speak on behalf of the entire playerbase?

    Just because you prefer one playstyle over something else doesnt mean people doing something else are "sad", thats pretty silly.
    I get an instant bubble-guy answer that proves my point, holy shit this made my day.

  13. #33
    Im going fae it wasn't hard at all to choose op.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    Is it more complex than class choice?

    Would it matter if it was?
    This. I'm confused how you managed to pick a class when they have like two dozen abilities instead of 2 and ~3 specs each with talent options for those specs.

  15. #35
    The Insane Acidbaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melliodas View Post
    I will admit this is a lot confusing for the average player.
    True as that may be, the average player would have a far more enjoyable experience going on what they find is the best fit for them or their character. That's somewhat the intend behind this.

    I get people set in their ways of following "the meta" and wanting "the best" are going to have issue with this, however the unforgiving truth here is that those people don't play on a level where their choice matters that much from a performance point of view, i understand where those people sit but their errors in priority/rotation should be a bigger concern for them, same goes with cool down usage.

    For me it is rather simple Blood Elf Death knight, going Venthyr as the setting lends to it. Others i will see when i get to them. So while the system looks complex from a distance it really isn't in comparison to other games however, people make it complex for themselves. Things are going to be balanced constantly in the coming weeks and part of me is enjoying the schadenfreude of people trying to roll the dice on picking the FoTM class and covenant combination.

    Disclaimer: I am as casual as they come nowadays so i am not claiming to be better merely pointing out the fairly absurd view people have about min maxing and covenants where they look at their own in combat skill cap as one of their last points of improvement, where it should be the first.


    ps: I am aware this is a silly bait thread. So don't get taunted into earning infractions.
    “My philosophy is: It’s none of my business what people say of me and think of me. I am what I am and I do what I do. I expect nothing and accept everything. And it makes life so much easier.
    ― Anthony Hopkins

  16. #36
    Has anyone ever once considered that maybe Blizzard keeps trying to put system on top of system on top of system to make it near impossible to balance and have a one size fits all system to allow players to play those things they like instead of a perceived what is best?
    Maybe Blizzard doesn’t want people to be able to figure out what’s best so the players that want to play what they like can do just that. This is a company that has never had good balance. There are always very strong defined specs and classes when it comes to damage, healing, or mitigation. There are always best talents and traits that are sometimes OP. Maybe Blizzard wants covenants to be just close enough and confusing enough that having the absolute best will be technically impossible as there are so many things to choose, and will probably come out later on in the xpac.

  17. #37
    I am barely smarter than a volleyball and I understand them so how hard could it really be.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    People at the very high end will naturally pick whatever sims the highest. Anyone else will pick what they like.

    Why does it really matter if you're doing 2-5% more or less damage in any given situation if you're clearing the content you're doing?

    If you're not in a top 100 guild or competing for gladiator or m+ ladders, it really won't matter what you ultimately pick.

    And if you regret your choice, you can switch and be completely caught up within a couple of weeks.
    THIS.

    Pick whatever you like from the story or RP PoV, every Covenant has their ups and downs and unless you're doing cutting edge content it's pretty much a wash. And on top of that, having a diversity of Covenants represented in your Dungeon Group so you can take advantage of the different boosts is going to erase other small gains in that kind of content.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Melliodas View Post
    But you dont actually know what other players will do, do you? Or do you speak on behalf of the entire playerbase?

    Just because you prefer one playstyle over something else doesnt mean people doing something else are "sad", thats pretty silly.

    So you are speaking for all of the "average players" in saying it's confusing? Or do you just mean "Melliodas the very average player" who finds this confusing?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyOne View Post
    I get an instant bubble-guy answer that proves my point, holy shit this made my day.
    Yes I play paladin, what does that have to do with anything?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KALAMITY View Post
    So you are speaking for all of the "average players" in saying it's confusing? Or do you just mean "Melliodas the very average player" who finds this confusing?
    Everyone I've asked that dont play the game like I do (mythic raiding, m+) are pretty confused when I start explaining about the systems.

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