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  1. #181
    New Kid Zaelsino's Avatar
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    Forsaken fans jacked off for years about how excellent an undead Menethil championing their rights to Lordaeron would be. In a classic Blizzard manoeuvre though, they got their wish in the form of an Alliance-leaning-neutral Light chimera who clashes horribly with their themes and aesthetic.

  2. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by shoc View Post
    Normal people don't "hate" world of warcraft characters.
    Liking or hating a character is actually pretty normal depending on how well or poorly written is in a medium people enjoy and take pleasure in.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelsino View Post
    Forsaken fans jacked off for years about how excellent an undead Menethil championing their rights to Lordaeron would be. In a classic Blizzard manoeuvre though, they got their wish in the form of an Alliance-leaning-neutral Light chimera who clashes horribly with their themes and aesthetic.
    Honestly there have always been two camps about that; those you mention, and the ones that seethed at the mention of a Menethil ever sitting on the throne of Lordaeron ever again.

  4. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    You're contradicting yourself. You like the Forsaken because they do shady, borderline evil stuff... then you hate Alleria Windrunner, who is one of the most controversial characters in the story, due to her mastery over the Void?

    So do you like goody goody two shoes like Calia, or shady figures like Alleria and some Forsaken? Which is it?
    I know you are Alleria fanboy, but she is really boring and over-the-top void user.
    She did nothing after her brief cameo, only whined in the sylvanas 3 sisters comic and some dialogue lines here and there.
    Not jumping further into this with you mate.

  5. #185
    Yet another elf lover...

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by gurutikka View Post
    The majority of Horde players don't want Calia shoehorned as a leader, there was a poll on the official forums and nobody voted in favor of Calia.
    Source for this 'majority' claim? Your 20 friends, or your guild, is not sufficient source data.

    That was just a poll on a known complaining forum (i.e. of course negative stuff wins), and means nothing. Get some data, then you can make these 'majority' claims. Till then, you're just making up statistics on the spot with no data.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Depakote View Post
    Maybe it's you who should read more. Here, i'll help: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Calia_Mene...rly_background
    Ohh wow, it's repeating what I said. I know so little that you are copying what I've said already.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Shedaar View Post
    I know you are Alleria fanboy, but she is really boring and over-the-top void user.
    She did nothing after her brief cameo, only whined in the sylvanas 3 sisters comic and some dialogue lines here and there.
    Not jumping further into this with you mate.
    And Sylvanas did nothing relevant for the entirety of MoP and WoD. What is your point? Are you saying that Alleria is a "bad character" because, LIKE SYLVANAS HERSELF, she did not do much for an entire expansion?

  9. #189
    People hate Calia for being the leader of the Forsaken?

    Then that hate is unjustifiable, because she's explicitly not. She's a glorified therapist. She's got to loyalty to either faction, only to helping the undead get back in touch with their living emotions.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Soeroah View Post
    People hate Calia for being the leader of the Forsaken?

    Then that hate is unjustifiable, because she's explicitly not. She's a glorified therapist. She's got to loyalty to either faction, only to helping the undead get back in touch with their living emotions.
    You can keep saying Calia has no loyalty to either faction, but we all know that is false or she wouldn't have worked with Anduin to start the war in Arathi.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by agm114r View Post
    Source for this 'majority' claim? Your 20 friends, or your guild, is not sufficient source data.

    That was just a poll on a known complaining forum (i.e. of course negative stuff wins), and means nothing. Get some data, then you can make these 'majority' claims. Till then, you're just making up statistics on the spot with no data.
    Why would they bother going out and finding even more statistics and data when you've already shown everyone here that you dont actually care about the data and you've said that people's opinions within said data mean "nothing"?

    Its the typical "I dont like the answers so I'm going to plug my ears and go 'la la la la la' until you bring me data that supports my PoV."

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    You can keep saying Calia has no loyalty to either faction, but we all know that is false or she wouldn't have worked with Anduin to start the war in Arathi.
    She didn't work to start the war. She worked to try to allow Forsaken from the Horde to reconnect with humans from the Alliance. She stayed out of Horde and Alliance politics since the fall of Lordaeron and became a priestess under Alonsus Faol. When she finally returned to the game, it was as an adviser to the High Priest in Legion - who wasn't working on behalf of a faction other than "the Priests" at the time.

    She doesn't care about the Horde or the Alliance, and she doesn't want to make a claim to Lordaeron. All she wants is to help the undead through a tough time - she even offers to help the night elves raised by Sylvanas, too.

  12. #192
    She has so much more legitimacy than Nathanos Simpcuck

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    And Sylvanas did nothing relevant for the entirety of MoP and WoD. What is your point? Are you saying that Alleria is a "bad character" because, LIKE SYLVANAS HERSELF, she did not do much for an entire expansion?
    Yes that's exactly what I am saying.
    How can you tell she's good character when she has done nothing?
    If she does something cool then I will give her credits.
    For now she sucks. Like Calia. And Baine. Bland, no flavor.

  14. #194
    I Like Calia, I hate she became an undead but still like her and I hate the forsaken, and KNOWING that they will NOT drop the 2 faction war, then any plot points like this just piss me off, as if wow was an innovatiive game or whatever word you personally want to use, it would have been a great setup for a neutral faction or other such faction drama, but as we outside the world know that the factions are glued into their sides, its just frustrating.

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    You might want to re-read the book and see who started shouting "Defect" and slinging around holy spells as she revealed her presence before arrows even started flying. She deliberately made a bad situation, Forsaken were knowingly breaking rules established for the gathering, worse by doing that and guaranteed all their deaths.
    Ah yes the long storied history of Light Undead that didn't exist at all prior to Before the Storm and that Anduin even remarks was alien and that Calia was unnatural but ignores what he has just done. I get that no one even thinks about what the implications are of what he does because he is Icon of Good but come on.
    Oh no... she was casting helpful spells. How dare she?! We must kill them all right now!

    Get outta here with your stockholm syndrome drivel!

    They were being used by Sylvanas. She never cared about them. It does not give her the right to kill them and abuse them. You don't get to twist this on the one person helping them.

    Sylvanas and Sylvanas alone got them killed.

    If your sister is being abused by her husband and you tell her she should dump him and he hits her cause of that, was that your fault? Stop, just stop. Your rational here is offensive to people who have been abused by others.

    So drop the bs and admit you are just into faction wars and cause she still has her human form you don't want her. At least it's honest. Even if it's a detached player opinion.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-11-22 at 11:56 PM.

  16. #196
    The Lightbringer Darknessvamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Oh no... she was casting helpful spells. How dare she?! We must kill them all right now!

    Get outta here with your stockholm syndrome drivel!

    They were being used by Sylvanas. She never cared about them. It does not give her the right to kill them and abuse them. You don't get to twist this on the one person helping them.

    Sylvanas and Sylvanas alone got them killed.

    If your sister is being abused by her husband and you tell her she should dump him and he hits her cause of that, was that your fault? Stop, just stop. Your rational here is offensive to people who have been abused by others.

    So drop the bs and admit you are just into faction wars and cause she still has her human form you don't want her. At least it's honest. Even if it's a detached player opinion.
    How helpful is a holy spell to an undead? And they all knew prior to the Gathering what Sylvanas' terms for the event were and the intentions for breaking them were going to be, after all the last two times she gave people the benefit of the doubt they betrayed her for a Dreadlord and occupied the race's city and the other killed her point blank with a shotgun.

    Stockholm syndrome? I play Alliance and still think the Forsaken shouldn't be shackled by Calia. If Sylvanas didn't actually care about them then she would never have done the event in the first place, she even makes the case in the book that it's pointless and rife with exploitation by the Alliance but then decided not only would it be a good gesture from herself to the Forsaken who wanted to participate and appease the Desolate Council they would learn the hard way why she didn't want them to do it, despite the Forsaken's history being drenched in giving up familial ties as they find them abhorrent in their current state, and that most importantly Anduin wouldn't abuse the opportunity. It's not her fault that it transformed into a political maneuver before her very eyes and violated all the established terms because Anduin allowed Calia to attend. No I can definitely conclude what happened at the Gathering, if Calia had not been present all the undead who participated would still be alive, Parqual wouldn't have taken it as a signal that the Alliance were acting against the Horde and encouraged others to break the agreements, Sylvanas wouldn't have taken issue with them milling about and might have recalled them at the agreed time rather than earlier, the Gathering would have ended amicably and Calia wouldn't be an abomination in both the story and lightforged sense.

    That's a bit of a weird personal tangent that also lacks context but of course the rational action would be if you know your sister is being abused you wouldn't be sending her back to her husband after you've told her to leave him. So yes if you didn't help keep her safe then it is your fault for not helping. What.

    What bs? I've said in multiple threads that I think the faction wars have been poor and the factions should evolve in some way by either separating into individual groups or introducing a third major faction that brings a new dynamic to the conflicts. I don't think she shouldn't be part of the Forsaken specifically because she isn't Forsaken or have any common ground with which to relate or reconcile with them based on her history, familial and royal ties and the simple fact she advocates for the Alliance more than the Horde Races, not to mention her desire with the Forsaken isn't actually to help them but to govern them and their futures as shown throughout BtS. I couldn't care less that she looks like a human like Nathanos, I take more issue with the fact she's a Lightforged Undead that Anduin helped raise and no one questions it or reacts it to sensibly in the narrative i.e. the fact it's unnatural and goes against everything the Alliance believes about the Light and Undeath.
    Last edited by Darknessvamp; 2020-11-23 at 01:54 AM.
    Argus' Nightmare Continues With Shadowlands
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  17. #197
    Like most things in wows story Calia would be fine if they had good writers and set her up more. Cut the fake holy "undead" thing and bring her in sooner. Stop trying to make the forsaken "good guys" because they are not. Set up Nathanos to turn on Sylvanas and make him the new leader with Calia and maybe Voss.

  18. #198
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    I thought Voss was the acting leader of the Forsaken.
    She is. Calia goes out of her way, literally every time she's on-screen, to say in written and (on several occasions) voiced dialgoue that she has no aspirations to or interest in reestablishing the Menethil monarchy, and has maintained this position since her return in the Priest Order Hall campaign back in Legion. Regardless, people still get twisted into pretzels because they've made up a fictional scenario in their heads and gotten mad about their pretend argument.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Darknessvamp View Post
    How helpful is a holy spell to an undead? And they all knew prior to the Gathering what Sylvanas' terms for the event were and the intentions for breaking them were going to be, after all the last two times she gave people the benefit of the doubt they betrayed her for a Dreadlord and occupied the race's city and the other killed her point blank with a shotgun.

    Stockholm syndrome? I play Alliance and still think the Forsaken shouldn't be shackled by Calia. If Sylvanas didn't actually care about them then she would never have done the event in the first place, she even makes the case in the book that it's pointless and rife with exploitation by the Alliance but then decided not only would it be a good gesture from herself to the Forsaken who wanted to participate and appease the Desolate Council they would learn the hard way why she didn't want them to do it, despite the Forsaken's history being drenched in giving up familial ties as they find them abhorrent in their current state, and that most importantly Anduin wouldn't abuse the opportunity. It's not her fault that it transformed into a political maneuver before her very eyes and violated all the established terms because Anduin allowed Calia to attend. No I can definitely conclude what happened at the Gathering, if Calia had not been present all the undead who participated would still be alive, Parqual wouldn't have taken it as a signal that the Alliance were acting against the Horde and encouraged others to break the agreements, Sylvanas wouldn't have taken issue with them milling about and might have recalled them at the agreed time rather than earlier, the Gathering would have ended amicably and Calia wouldn't be an abomination in both the story and lightforged sense.

    That's a bit of a weird personal tangent that also lacks context but of course the rational action would be if you know your sister is being abused you wouldn't be sending her back to her husband after you've told her to leave him. So yes if you didn't help keep her safe then it is your fault for not helping. What.

    What bs? I've said in multiple threads that I think the faction wars have been poor and the factions should evolve in some way by either separating into individual groups or introducing a third major faction that brings a new dynamic to the conflicts. I don't think she shouldn't be part of the Forsaken specifically because she isn't Forsaken or have any common ground with which to relate or reconcile with them based on her history, familial and royal ties and the simple fact she advocates for the Alliance more than the Horde Races, not to mention her desire with the Forsaken isn't actually to help them but to govern them and their futures as shown throughout BtS. I couldn't care less that she looks like a human like Nathanos, I take more issue with the fact she's a Lightforged Undead that Anduin helped raise and no one questions it or reacts it to sensibly in the narrative i.e. the fact it's unnatural and goes against everything the Alliance believes about the Light and Undeath.

    First, the dreadlord thing... likely her plan to begin with. He kind of hints at it in Antorus. Even if not, they were in Arathi. Pretty far away from the undercity. There was no threat and she herself was under no threat. I don't really want to bring up the invasion of Gilneas into this. She got what she deserved. Had no business going there.
    In the book, we learn that Sylvanas agreed to the gathering to lure out the ones that had aspirations to a life with the living. It was a trap from the beggining. It's towards the end.

    You say things like Calia wanting to "shakle" them. Where do you come up with that stuff? It's not cause she is a menethil. I never seen her say she wants to rule them. She has only wanted to help them.
    It TOTALLY was Sylvanas fault/planning.

    Don't worry, the tangent wasn't personal, but it was to give you perspective. At least, you understand that it's not ok, even if you want to make an exception for Sylvanas for some reason. You think Anduin should have brought up the army to take the "dissending" forsaken? Interesting. Calia didnt have that power, so i don't see how it is her fault.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-11-23 at 06:30 AM.

  20. #200
    Calia is trash and antithetical to what defines The Forsaken.

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