The hate towards Calia is quite understandable

[Ihavewaffles]

Calia doesn't even look udead, like a human/draenei hybrid, why is she even in horde...not bad ass in any way...

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Literally what? Read all these paragraphs and say that again:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Alleria_Windrunner#Legion

Absorbing two Void demi-gods and becoming the first mortal to successfully defy the shadows' whispers is more than Sylvanas and every other mortal could hope to accomplish in their pathetic existences.

And note that I only selected what she did in WoW, she did A LOT in WC2 too, as she was a hero unit.

Alleria feels forced, she's a windrunner so lets throw some corruption her way...i guess 3rd sister will become mecha elf n go to war against curse of flesh...just u wait..

[haiyken]

"Hate" is strongly put. Many Horde/Forsaken players simply think they don't belong in the Horde. And I agree, she has not ties to the Horde, and her being Menethil isn't enough for her to lead the Forsaken. A Menethil was the whole reason why Forsaken are well... Forsaken, why would they want another Menethil leading them?

Well, as a Forsaken main (and many, many alts), I welcome the story a Menethil leading the Lordaeron Forsaken, excatly because of the baggage Calia brings. It's a very interesting idea and can brings a lot of internal conflict within the faction. While I like Lillian a lot (she deserves her own model, tbh), from her first questline to her actions in BfA, I don't think she's leader material. She's the Mathias Shaw of the Forsaken (or she should be), leading elite assassins for the Horde. It's the perfect role for her, meaningful but not as involved in politics.

Back to Calia : I think her legitimacy in ruling Lordaeron is a really great starting point to rebuilt a new Forsaken faction following Sylvanas departure. I'm a fervent Sylvanas loyalist, loved all the quests in Silverpine, the war on the Worgens - all of this is amazing and I RP'd the sh*t out of it - but the Forsaken need something new. Without Sylvanas, we are non-existent within the Horde, and we don't fit with either the Tribal side (Orcs/Taurens/Trolls/Vulpera) or the Magic side (Blood Elves/Nightborne). With the fall of Undercity, we don't even have a home anymore. All of this needs to be adressed and Calia is a great way to bring some conflict and complexity into it. Some will reject her, some will accept her. She won't be able to be a queen as Sylvanas was, but maybe rule a council of internal Forsaken families/groups/factions.

Forsaken are in the rare position of having a finite number of people, and without a Lich King, without Valkyrs, there is no way to create more of them. This is a huge deal for the race and a big reason why Calia might be appealing for some of them. She brings with her the possibility of new Forsaken, but different Forsaken as well. Undeath was always about decay, but she brings something new with the Light. What will the rotten corpse think of their pristine light-touched brothers and sisters ? I'm sure nothing will ever go wrong with that...

Overall, people focusing on Calia as a character fail to see, in my opinion, the larger story it could develop. Her attributes (he Menethil, raised by the Light, etc.) are great elements to explore further withing the context of the Forsaken themselves, their history, their culture... I for one can't wait to see what's next !

[Varodoc]

Calia doesn't even look udead, like a human/draenei hybrid, why is she even in horde...not bad ass in any way...

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Alleria feels forced, she's a windrunner so lets throw some corruption her way...i guess 3rd sister will become mecha elf n go to war against curse of flesh...just u wait..

However she's different from the other beings who were corrupted. She is not controlled by the Void, instead she enslaved the Void to her will.

[Ihavewaffles]

However she's different from the other beings who were corrupted. She is not controlled by the Void, instead she enslaved the Void to her will.

Which defangs the void...like making fel energy just a tool...just so writers can throw some edgy elf at us.. I'm glad we didn't have alleria vs n'zoth..

[Varodoc]

Which defangs the void...like making fel energy just a tool...just so writers can throw some edgy elf at us.. I'm glad we didn't have alleria vs n'zoth..

Why should the Void be different from Fel or any other force? These cosmic forces are just weapons to be used and enslaved, they should not be feared just because of their mysterious nature.

And Alleria was totally robbed of the screentime she deserved in 8.3. Let me remind you that she was the ONLY leader who was so focused on the threat posed by N'Zoth that she suggested making a truce with Sylvanas. Yet when the time comes to fight N'Zoth, Anduin never even considers the idea of asking Alleria for help, and instead relies solely on his friend Wrathion and that annoying crystal dwarf Magni.

[Ihavewaffles]

Why should the Void be different from Fel or any other force? These cosmic forces are just weapons to be used and enslaved, they should not be feared just because of their mysterious nature.

And Alleria was totally robbed of the screentime she deserved in 8.3. Let me remind you that she was the ONLY leader who was so focused on the threat posed by N'Zoth that she suggested making a truce with Sylvanas. Yet when the time comes to fight N'Zoth, Anduin never even considers the idea of asking Alleria for help, and instead relies solely on his friend Wrathion and that annoying crystal dwarf Magni.

Wrathion is a black dragon, bad ass. Alleria just...doesn't become slave/negatively influenced by void lords to make her seem bad ass...
Wrathion who is so much more powerful has to tiptoe around void stuff, n alleria that was just a freaking archer can bathe in it with no consequences, to make her look edgy, so now void is some magic lego?..

N her husband who fought evil for so long, is just cool with it.../facepalm

[Varodoc]

Wrathion is a black dragon, bad ass. Alleria just...doesn't become slave/negatively influenced by void lords to make her seem bad ass...
Wrathion who is so much more powerful has to tiptoe around void stuff, n alleria that was just a freaking archer can bathe in it with no consequences, to make her look edgy, so now void is some magic lego?..

N her husband who fought evil for so long, is just cool with it.../facepalm

Alleria trained for centuries with Locus-Walker to hone her mental fortitude and willpower. That's why the Void Lords can't control her.

Why would Turalyon have a problem with Alleria? Contrary to the belief of some people around here, Turalyon is not a Light fanatic. He was willing to work with Illidan despite him being a demon hybrid who just killed Xe'ra, and he still loves Alleria despite her having been changed biologically by the Void.

[Ihavewaffles]

Alleria trained for centuries with Locus-Walker to hone her mental fortitude and willpower. That's why the Void Lords can't control her.

Why would Turalyon have a problem with Alleria? Contrary to the belief of some people around here, Turalyon is not a Light fanatic. He was willing to work with Illidan despite him being a demon hybrid who just killed Xe'ra, and he still loves Alleria despite her having been changed biologically by the Void.

Dude, ur basically saying an archer elf has more resistance to void than DEATHWING.

"trained for centuries".... oh, geez... that shit is just something added to make them more edgy, n what is lotus walker, a void miyagi?..
N they still suck, illidan blocked Turalyon's sword with his hand...n illidan who lost to paladin arthas who was young n how long has Turalyon been pala according to new lorelol? He n alleria absolutly suck, way over their heads to tamper with void.

The TITANS are afraid of void, SARGERAS is (who can cleave planets!)...but here comes brittney spears elf waving her lil' fingers n we are just supposed to be cool with that? Lol?

Alleria, mary sue of the void...

[Varodoc]

Dude, ur basically saying an archer elf has more resistance to void than DEATHWING.

"trained for centuries".... oh, geez... that shit is just something added to make them more edgy, n what is lotus walker, a void miyagi?..
N they still suck, illidan blocked Turalyon's sword with his hand...n illidan who lost to paladin arthas who was young n how long has Turalyon been pala according to new lorelol? He n alleria absolutly suck, way over their heads to tamper with void.

The TITANS are afraid of void, SARGERAS is (who can cleave planets!)...but here comes brittney spears elf waving her lil' fingers n we are just supposed to be cool with that? Lol?

Alleria, mary sue of the void...

And here comes the typical sexist derogatory term "Mary Sue". Controlling the Void has NOTHING to do with physical might. Deathwing was mentally weak, so he succumbed to the whispers. Alleria has been training for many years to strengthen her mental fortitude, that's why the Void Lords have no control over her. We even saw her training with Locus-Walker in the game, a very rigorous training, from a very demanding teacher. Same thing for Sargeras. Just because he's big and scary doesn't mean he's almighty or omniscient. He was scared of the Void Lords because he was too naive and narrow-minded to understand that the Void is a weapon to be controlled and harnessed, not feared.

And she's not "just a simple archer", she is the best archer Quel'Thalas ever had. Sylvanas herself praised Alleria's skills, calling her "the brightest and most formidable of their order".

[Kaver]

So I just watched this video clip and I see a lot of people complaining about Calia being in Orgrimmar and I can agree with the sentiment that she is not worthy to lead the Forsaken. No doubt she is a light abomination.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bgduIXYEVE

Solution: Calia should be thrown from the roof of Grommash Hold as she doesn't belong on the Horde and Valeera should be forced to take the Blood Oath and become a Horde member.

And finally we can rest easy knowing that Calia will no longer be alive to try to take the throne of the Forsaken and make her illegitimated claim in the Horde where she doesn't belong.

So how did Sylvanas work out for you?

[Depakote]

Ohh wow, it's repeating what I said. I know so little that you are copying what I've said already.

lol ok, you're clearly not worth having a conversation with. Goodbye.

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"Hate" is strongly put. Many Horde/Forsaken players simply think they don't belong in the Horde. And I agree, she has not ties to the Horde, and her being Menethil isn't enough for her to lead the Forsaken. A Menethil was the whole reason why Forsaken are well... Forsaken, why would they want another Menethil leading them?

because some people are able to not generalize.

[Ihavewaffles]

Oh geez...deathwing was dealing with magic, expriements for ages, he was ancient, big ego doesn't mean he was stupid.

The titans created g'huun, who knows what they have been up to through the countless ages, across countless worlds? what information they have accumalated?.. ...

N some lotus walker dude n some archer are going to know better...I think ur way into valleria to think about this objectively, no point in further discussion..

[Depakote]

Oh geez...deathwing was dealing with magic, expriements for ages, he was ancient, big ego doesn't mean he was stupid.

The titans created g'huun, who knows what they have been up to through the countless ages, across countless worlds? what information they have accumalated?.. ...

N some lotus walker dude n some archer are going to know better...I think ur way into valleria to think about this objectively, no point in further discussion..

*accidentally created but leave that part out. It's people who don't know the lore of the game and then spout off about how much they think the game should work that annoy me the most. Guess what you are?

[StillMcfuu]

lol ok, you're clearly not worth having a conversation with. Goodbye.

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because some people are able to not generalize.

Seeing as you've added nothing to the discussion and your only contribution is a reference that not only does nothing to counter my comments, but affirms them; the sentiment is more than mutual.

[LemonDemonGirl]

No, I like the Horde when it's not a bunch of Nazis in leather or goth makeup. Not every Horde player wants to play the villain.

Exactly. If I wanted to feel evil I'd go play SWTOR and make a Dark Side character. I don't want to have a character like that (and feel the same way) in WoW

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Calia in Orgrimmar is terrible

But Valeera is worse

I still don't get why they decided to put Valeera in Dazar'alor of all places. An elf in a trollian city? That's just crazy lol

[omeomorfismo]

Exactly. If I wanted to feel evil I'd go play SWTOR and make a Dark Side character. I don't want to have a character like that (and feel the same way) in WoW

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I still don't get why they decided to put Valeera in Dazar'alor of all places. An elf in a trollian city? That's just crazy lol

or you can play a forsaken and smash human heads with a shovel. let the forsaken be forsaken, to be hippie pacifist there are the taurens

[Darknessvamp]

First, the dreadlord thing... likely her plan to begin with. He kind of hints at it in Antorus. Even if not, they were in Arathi. Pretty far away from the undercity. There was no threat and she herself was under no threat. I don't really want to bring up the invasion of Gilneas into this. She got what she deserved. Had no business going there.
In the book, we learn that Sylvanas agreed to the gathering to lure out the ones that had aspirations to a life with the living. It was a trap from the beggining. It's towards the end.

You say things like Calia wanting to "shakle" them. Where do you come up with that stuff? It's not cause she is a menethil. I never seen her say she wants to rule them. She has only wanted to help them.
It TOTALLY was Sylvanas fault/planning.

Don't worry, the tangent wasn't personal, but it was to give you perspective. At least, you understand that it's not ok, even if you want to make an exception for Sylvanas for some reason. You think Anduin should have brought up the army to take the "dissending" forsaken? Interesting. Calia didnt have that power, so i don't see how it is her fault.

Although they've always been flaky on it, the Dreadlord coup worked directly against Sylvanas favour which firmly suggests it wasn't a part of her plans. It not only weakened her forces by losing control of Undercity and having a significant part of her faction get swayed by power during the Expansion that she was directly trying to kill the Major Big Bad as well as delayed all future assaults against him, she also had a target painted on her back from both factions and had a literal invasion force inside her city which could render all her effort for naught because of it. Plus she literally got nothing out of it. Additionally Varimathras is pretty much confirmed as untrustworthy and with the current Dreadlord lore being retconned all over the place we can't exactly take what he says as anything worthwhile.

The Arathi Highlands was still a contested zone as of the Gathering and Turalyon made explicitly sure that they brought a sizable force with them as an escort despite Anduin's input. Additionally the fact that Anduin was impressed upon that the area was essentially a "battlefield" shows the Gathering was still under risk of devolving into conflict. Gilneas was leaking cursed Worgen into Silverpine which was a direct threat to the Forsaken and they couldn't reach the source without dealing with it within Gilneas, it just turned out that a majority of the population had gone mad with the curse and as of Cataclysm had only just started to recover the sanity after years of assaulting Silverpine. I'm not sure about that, considering Godfrey was initially planning to negotiate with the Forsaken prior to his suicide she probably didn't expect him to stupidly execute her in the middle of an army and then get cornered in the nearest castle ruins. She initially agreed to the Gathering after beleieving Anduin likely had more personal than strategic reasons for it and realising it could be used as both a power move and method of appeasement for those in the Forsaken. She later impressed upon the participants of the Gathering what going against the terms established for the handling of event would meant and when Parqual began his pre-planned maneuvers to break the agreements she called the Gathering early as a means to figure out who was loyal and who wasn't. It only turned to a execution after one of the more loyal participants arrived back in a panic and disgust and informed Sylvanas of what she had seen and Calia had started making her presence known on the field.

I mean the Forsaken shackled by Calia as in literally chained to her for their future characterisation when Lightforged Calia holds absolutely no future for the Forsaken as they are. Her introduction is an attempt to wipe the slate clean and weakens their race as a whole immensely as she has zero ties with them apart from being the daughter and sister of the people who caused their fate as well as being an absentee royal who went out of her way to do nothing for her people. If you were only going with her Legion characterisation then sure however throughout BtS Calia as well as others repeatedly bring up the concept of her reclaiming Lordaeron to which she either dismisses it till later or handwaves it away as something they shouldn't focus on until she gets to the Gathering. During which she affirms to herself her desire is be in control of her people because she believes Sylvanas has no legitimacy to do so. Upon death and resurrection she responds to Anduin that she didn't initially get involved with the Gathering as a bid for her kingdom as means of reassuring him that she had not been deceiving him from the start but then essentially states she still retains those aspiration in Light Undeath, just she isn't ready as of yet to take control of her Kingdom a response that Anduin finds amicable. So yes Calia literally admits she wants control of the leadership of the Forsaken despite the amount of times she tries to handwave it with smiles and claims of "only an advisor" and yes she is to blame for the failure of the Gathering.

I don't think Anduin should've have brought an army, he did have an army with him at the Gathering and Parqual, who was one of the organisers on the Horde side of the Gathering, took Anduin allowing Calia to take the field as an indication that she had somehow secured the Alliance's assistance in disrupting the Gathering. There's a suggestion that there was some sort of hidden meaning that had meant to be communicated through having Calia obtaining permission to be present as some sort of signal for a blatant maneuver against the Gathering's terms to expatriate certain Forsaken from the event with the Alliance's help. Yes Calia didn't have the power to do so and clearly didn't realise she had been tricked into being on the field but she seized the opportunity to expose and promote herself rather taking the sensible course of action and retreating immediately.

[Swnem]

Although they've always been flaky on it, the Dreadlord coup worked directly against Sylvanas favour which firmly suggests it wasn't a part of her plans. It not only weakened her forces by losing control of Undercity and having a significant part of her faction get swayed by power during the Expansion that she was directly trying to kill the Major Big Bad as well as delayed all future assaults against him, she also had a target painted on her back from both factions and had a literal invasion force inside her city which could render all her effort for naught because of it. Plus she literally got nothing out of it. Additionally Varimathras is pretty much confirmed as untrustworthy and with the current Dreadlord lore being retconned all over the place we can't exactly take what he says as anything worthwhile.

The Arathi Highlands was still a contested zone as of the Gathering and Turalyon made explicitly sure that they brought a sizable force with them as an escort despite Anduin's input. Additionally the fact that Anduin was impressed upon that the area was essentially a "battlefield" shows the Gathering was still under risk of devolving into conflict. Gilneas was leaking cursed Worgen into Silverpine which was a direct threat to the Forsaken and they couldn't reach the source without dealing with it within Gilneas, it just turned out that a majority of the population had gone mad with the curse and as of Cataclysm had only just started to recover the sanity after years of assaulting Silverpine. I'm not sure about that, considering Godfrey was initially planning to negotiate with the Forsaken prior to his suicide she probably didn't expect him to stupidly execute her in the middle of an army and then get cornered in the nearest castle ruins. She initially agreed to the Gathering after beleieving Anduin likely had more personal than strategic reasons for it and realising it could be used as both a power move and method of appeasement for those in the Forsaken. She later impressed upon the participants of the Gathering what going against the terms established for the handling of event would meant and when Parqual began his pre-planned maneuvers to break the agreements she called the Gathering early as a means to figure out who was loyal and who wasn't. It only turned to a execution after one of the more loyal participants arrived back in a panic and disgust and informed Sylvanas of what she had seen and Calia had started making her presence known on the field.

I mean the Forsaken shackled by Calia as in literally chained to her for their future characterisation when Lightforged Calia holds absolutely no future for the Forsaken as they are. Her introduction is an attempt to wipe the slate clean and weakens their race as a whole immensely as she has zero ties with them apart from being the daughter and sister of the people who caused their fate as well as being an absentee royal who went out of her way to do nothing for her people. If you were only going with her Legion characterisation then sure however throughout BtS Calia as well as others repeatedly bring up the concept of her reclaiming Lordaeron to which she either dismisses it till later or handwaves it away as something they shouldn't focus on until she gets to the Gathering. During which she affirms to herself her desire is be in control of her people because she believes Sylvanas has no legitimacy to do so. Upon death and resurrection she responds to Anduin that she didn't initially get involved with the Gathering as a bid for her kingdom as means of reassuring him that she had not been deceiving him from the start but then essentially states she still retains those aspiration in Light Undeath, just she isn't ready as of yet to take control of her Kingdom a response that Anduin finds amicable. So yes Calia literally admits she wants control of the leadership of the Forsaken despite the amount of times she tries to handwave it with smiles and claims of "only an advisor" and yes she is to blame for the failure of the Gathering.

I don't think Anduin should've have brought an army, he did have an army with him at the Gathering and Parqual, who was one of the organisers on the Horde side of the Gathering, took Anduin allowing Calia to take the field as an indication that she had somehow secured the Alliance's assistance in disrupting the Gathering. There's a suggestion that there was some sort of hidden meaning that had meant to be communicated through having Calia obtaining permission to be present as some sort of signal for a blatant maneuver against the Gathering's terms to expatriate certain Forsaken from the event with the Alliance's help. Yes Calia didn't have the power to do so and clearly didn't realise she had been tricked into being on the field but she seized the opportunity to expose and promote herself rather taking the sensible course of action and retreating immediately.

He literally says she has always been scheming. Afrasiabi has let escape that the wrath gate was her doing. Arthas says Sylvanas. She orchestraded some fall guys for her assassination atempt with disregard to alliance and horde forces. She reveals herself as a villain expansions later. Like, it clearly wasn't a coincidence.

That is all pretty narrative, but as i said, since the start, even the formation of the council was a plan to execute dissendence and threaten those that don't do her bidding. In that note, it is why Voss is forced into helping in the war campaign.
There is no twisting that fact. It was all her plan. She didnt care about the gathering itself or aproaching of level field cooperation. From the start this event was just the means to a selfish goal of intimidation. So, none of what happened in the event can be grounds for her reaction since that reaction was always the plan. Just a question of when.

I also want to dispute the Menethil as the cause of all evils for the people of Lordearon, when it was a Dreadlord plot. Arthas is no innocent, even if he was used, but it doesn't mean his treachery was reflected in every other member of the family, including the ones killed or made to flee by his rampage. It's again a biased assumption.