Arthas is definitely getting a redemption of some sort. Blizzard showed their hand too early with the Afterlives: Bastion short and Uther throwing Arthas into the Maw.
Narratively they are now essentially forced to have Uther redeem his failure by pulling Arthas back out, and since just throwing him back into the Maw will be fairly anticlimactic he will at worst be sent to Revendreth.
Either that or he is completely dead/controlled by Sylvanas. Either way his redemption has already begun, now its just a matter of time until we see how it plays out.
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You have to ignore some consistency when a story goes as long as WoW has, and Blizzard has done an admirable effort trying to play up the misguided/mind-controlled Arthas for years.
Comparing TFT Arthas with the Arthas we are likely to get will create massive problems, but the same is true for many long-running stories that have far better writing.
The world revamp dream will never die!
As said, I entirely agree that it's inevitable, much like the unifaction was inevitable once Sylvanas torched the tree because some bitch gave her lip. And much like its BFA predecessor, the question is only what form it takes and how much it shits the bed on its way there. None here have debated whether it'll happen, more so that doing so is a carfire and it is both bad on its own and retroactively turns his story to mush.
Projecting forethought into this is disingenuous however, Wrath emphasized constantly that Arthas was the one in charge and even punted out the Lich King as a fusion of him and Ner'zhul to place it entirely on him. The whole business with his heart down the hole and Tirion destroying it was to explicitly deny an excuse. The culmination of his story in Rise of the Lich King is him taking full agency for what he did and kicking Ner'zhul out so he can be the Lich King and do the exact same thing except better. The Arthas redemption is in the works from Legion's Arthas cameos at earliest.
Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2020-11-22 at 01:25 PM.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
I dunno. Not that I think the writers always intended to have Arthas be given a redemption, but they have clearly been downplaying his evilness ever since TFT. They seemed to have constantly dropped hints that he was not as evil as first thought. Shadowlands is just the culmination of years upon years of making Arthas less evil.
The world revamp dream will never die!
Are we talking about stratholme again? this shit was a debate for eons, that was a necessary evil at that time, anything after stratholme is a sin on Arthas shoulders and should be judged, only the hardcore fans of Arthas claim he did 'nothing wrong', he did a lot of things wrong as most of the main characters of wow, none are clean, i don't think we gonna see Arthas to much in this expansion if so blizz would have advertised the shit of him as his the most loved character
Again, they made a point in Wrath about how it was solely Arthas and ditched Ner'zhul by having Arthas take over as @Combatbulter explained. To draw from a situation where they moved more culpability on Arthas by removing the single other party that could be responsible and had the hero character (Tirion) flat out reject his excuse that actually, they were always meaning to redeem him is baffling. It's the exact opposite of what they did in Wrath.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
The world revamp dream will never die!
I mean, it's not going to work. And if they do pull that, it's going to be hilariously tone deaf. She basically exterminated the Darnassus night elf population, and the way the event unfolded gives very little wiggle room for them to say "it was calculated all along!!" when she basically did it to spite one dying night elf. She didn't exactly radiate "master tactician" during that cinematic.
I actually kinda get the impression that's the "lesson" that's going to be learned in shadowlands. Sylvanas is fucking it all up because she wants to be able to control the outcome of death, but everyone there is happy with how things go (or at least deserving of being unhappy).
Honestly you see this every time. Of course the baddies have reasons. Of course they justify their actions somehow.
But as soon as we learn those motivations? We get the flood of "They did nothing wrong!"
Of course they did everything wrong. Just because Illidan/Arthas/Sargeras/Garrosh/Sylvanas/Hitler had reasons that motivated them and were convinced they were doing right and justified actions, doesn't make it so. It doesn't excuse the murdering and violations.
It's like in the minds of people the only people that are actually evil are those that go "I am evil without any other reason than that I love it!" That's not all that makes you evil. It's what you sacrifice that doesn't belong to you, to achieve your goals. The harm you willingly cause.
I can see this happening, the toxic "i did it for all of us, so we can all be free" moment when she finally gets whats coming to her and she tries to explain it off.
However, she isnt doing it for us all, she isnt doing it to free us all from this perceived forced servitude to the covenants, she is doing it for herself. Sylvanas doesnt want to be forced into servitutde, Sylvanas doesnt want to be tortured for the rest of eternity, Sylvanas knows where she will end up when she gets her real death, and she is trying to wriggle out of it.
If Blizz choose the obvious, she did it for us all, she was trying to save us all from this terrible fate route, it will be such a waste and a total cliche. She killed all those people, to save all those people, from the afterlife...
I could see Arthas forced to fight for Sylvanas as penultimate boss when we finally dispatch her.
Bring back defile!
On the actual topic of the thread, what others said summarizes it. The intent such as it is that after having Sylvanas be a motiveless drone in BFA they're now trying to breathe some characterization back into her by having her be right in the diagnosis - 'The Shadowlands are a bit fucked', but wrong in the solution of helping a giant blue man destroy reality.
If I was to give them somewhat more credit I'd also say that Sylvanas going on about how she'll set everyone free is self-deception and the consistent bit of her Golden-characterization of projecting her own struggles and issues onto everyone else.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
Sylvanas projecting is probably the most likely outcome if we assume the writers know what they are doing.
Sylvanas feels hopeless and abandoned by her family, so she assumes all Forsaken are hopeless and will be abandoned by their families.
Sylvanas was broken by the destruction of her homeland, so she expects Delaryn to be similarly broken.
Sylvanas fears death and being judged for her actions, so she assumes everyone else will also be afraid of death and the consequences of their actions.
The world revamp dream will never die!
That would be an insane stretch, with BfA still being fresh in our memory.
Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.
That's not at all how this works. In that case we can say that it was Ner'zhul's fault that Arthas became the monster that he was. Sylvanas being redeemed after what she did to Teldrassil is stupid, no matter what excuse she has.
And why are you saying people hate female characters because they don't like Sylvanas? How is that fair? What if someone said that if Blizzard doesn't end up killing Sylvanas it's because shes female and they don't have the guts. I mean, they did go back 4 expansion just remove the word "bitch" from being said against precious Queen Sylvanas.
You know who's a good female character? Tyrande. Inb4 "fUcKiNg EdGy NiGtH eLvEs WaAaAh"
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Erm, so the russian post was something like this...
Edit: Oh it's deletedNobody can understand me. but in English I cannot express this idea.
The thing is. that the death of the elves in old old stories and legends. was separate from the fate of the human race. If orcs and other "dark" ones retired to worlds in the style of Maldraxus. and people into something like Bastion. and there many many cycles, passing the path of correction, reincarnated back into the same or a similar world. Then the fate of the Elves was different - they are the Children of the Stars.
Their Spirit was different from the human in the first place. the ability to conduct the Force. what for a man was an exorbitant fantasy - Magic. the elves were simply in their very essence. Therefore, instructing the first Sorcerers and creating Orders of Magic in all available worlds. they drifted away from mortals. precisely because of the different future after death. Elves are not immortal. but simply living up to that Measure. where they themselves feel. that it's time to leave. since life experience has already been exhausted. and tired of life exceeds the joy of being in the body.
All these Maldraxus. Bastions. and Rivendreta are drawn from various old stories and legends. which have found their reflection. in a variety of science fiction novels over the past 250 years. Lords of Magic was one of the first games to attempt to map data from intricacies. Heroes the second. Blizzard with all due respect. to their perverse ideas in some aspects. were the last to try to broaden the human perception of the interweaving of galaxies. outside of science known to people. that is, outside the physical concept of reality in which we are.
Perhaps the leaders of this company are sure or know. that after death, people clump with such things. after all, one of the founders of the company is an open mason. not hiding it.