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  1. #41
    The Insane PC2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Accumulated and Chronic health issues that are the result of their activities for the company should certainly be covered by the company.
    Companies will cover those costs while they are employed up to a certain extent but if they get too high then it makes more sense to replace the person with someone who is actually healthy and not falling a part. In terms of post-employment there's simply no way that anyone can say that a business they used to work at is responsible for any new and uncovered health issues they have in their life. Unless they worked out the details of that beforehand.
    Optimism!

  2. #42
    Love wrestlers. Working backstage security at arenas is where I got all the good steroid info back in the day.

  3. #43
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PC2 View Post
    Their labor isn't worth the extra cost though so why should they get paid for more than their labor is worth? You can't just double their compensation because there's a lot of badass dudes who can be trained and would love to be wrestling for half the compensation.
    Yeah, I can think of a few... Nathan Jones and Achim Albrecht... Google them... what you said is ridiculous.

    Bad ass dudes is also kinda funny... it’s cardio...

    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    They are. Again, it's out of date to keep saying WWE performers are not covered and compensated anymore. Most of their roster are millionaires after a few years.

    Even lower card talent makes 100k + various incentives, cuts, and so on. Guys at the top of the card like Roman or Lesnar make multimillions yearly.

    This ain't the days of stiffing Greg Valentine or Crush for a lousy house show. WWE is a public company.
    They aren't.

    https://www.ringsidenews.com/2020/07...-wwe-pays-for/
    “So our talent are all independent contractors, so we actually don’t provide medical insurance for our talent,” McMahon stated. “We pay for all injuries, any surgeries or anything related to all in-ring injuries. We do have substance and abuses protocols that we offer our talent both current and retired. So anyone that’s ever had issues with drug and alcohol abuse, they can be a part of this program. WWE itself, for our employees, we do have health, medical and overall wellness and mental health.”
    They pay for any injuries you suffer in the ring...but that's it. After your career is over and you are left a shambling wreck of a human being...they cut you loose.

  5. #45
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    They are. Again, it's out of date to keep saying WWE performers are not covered and compensated anymore. Most of their roster are millionaires after a few years.

    Even lower card talent makes 100k + various incentives, cuts, and so on. Guys at the top of the card like Roman or Lesnar make multimillions yearly.

    This ain't the days of stiffing Greg Valentine or Crush for a lousy house show. WWE is a public company.
    So... much... wrong... There are no incentives... they just got told that they can’t even have social media accounts. They dropped Thea Megan Trinidad for having a twitch account.

    Lesnar cannot be compared to any of the regulars. He gets celebrity money... he doesn’t get wrestler money... and outside the top brass, times are not great.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    They pay for any injuries you suffer in the ring...but that's it. After your career is over and you are left a shambling wreck of a human being...they cut you loose.
    That's reasonable. The company does offer health insurance to employees and that can cover former talent and talent family members.

    You don't get coverage for off the job injury in other professions in the US necessarily. And usually, there are limitations when they do.

    The real issue is WWE does not view their talent as employees but as independent contractors. WWE employees are well compensated though. And both of these are different arguments and there is good reason WWE might not want to cover Killer Kross or "The American Dragon" Bryan Danielson carte blanche.

    So... much... wrong... There are no incentives... they just got told that they can’t even have social media accounts. They dropped Thea Megan Trinidad for having a twitch account.
    They do still have incentives. Talent gets bonuses and individual payouts based on a variety of factors and on their house show performance.

    Thea Trinidad/Zelina Vega's recent spat & firing was exactly predicated on the fact that her contract was structured that she could make more money back when they were running house shows- that's an incentive than now during the pandemic. She had secondary channels on Twitch and YT, but she herself stated she would not have fought over them so hard if she was doing house shows as she was now (sans house shows) making more money with Twitch and YT.

    Xavier Woods/Austin Watson has also talked about this in various places as he has very popular secondary channels. Such as UPUPDOWNDOWN. AJ has talked about it too, recently when the social media ownership thing first broke.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2020-11-25 at 01:23 AM.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    You don't get coverage for off the job injury in other professions in the US necessarily. And usually, there are limitations when they do.
    Not talking about off the job injury. Talking about sustained damage over a career of wrestling.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Egomaniac View Post
    Not talking about off the job injury. Talking about sustained damage over a career of wrestling.
    Which you can not calculate as the fault or onus of WWE solely. In many cases, not even at all.

    There is no way WWE is going to cover the medical for Kushida, Adam Cole, Bryan Danielson, or AJ Styles given the sheer amount of work they did outside of the WWE and often far more dangerous than WWE's relatively vanilla safe-as-houses bullshit.

    You think as a company they are gonna look at what Ricochet or Ciampa were doing for years and say, "Yea, we'll cover you for those injuries you suffered in CMLL and ECWA."

    That's unreasonable.

    I do think the talent ought to be treated as employees and further hope a performer's union happens in our lifetime. But currently, WWE does compensate the performers reasonably and they are taken care of in a likewise reasonable manner.

    No one is shafting Randy Orton and leaving in New Mexico with a busted ankle or asking Becky Lynch to drive to Minnesota to make a town with a ruptured spleen anymore.

    Edit: I don't even know why I am speaking in defense of WWE. They're the fucking worst. Though it is fair to say the current talent is compensated reasonably within their contracts and employment status.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2020-11-25 at 01:37 AM.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  9. #49
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    Which you can not calculate as the fault or onus of WWE solely. In many cases, not even at all.

    There is no way WWE is going to cover the medical for Kushida, Adam Cole, Bryan Danielson, or AJ Styles given the sheer amount of work they did outside of the WWE and often far more dangerous than WWE's relatively vanilla safe-as-houses bullshit.

    You think as a company they are gonna look at what Ricochet or Ciampa were doing for years and say, "Yea, we'll cover you for those injuries you suffered in CMLL and ECWA."

    That's unreasonable.

    I do think the talent ought to be treated as employees and further hope a performer's union happens in our lifetime. But currently, WWE does compensate the performers reasonably and they are taken care of in a likewise reasonable manner.

    No one is shafting Randy Orton and leaving in New Mexico with a busted ankle or asking Becky Lynch to drive to Minnesota to make a town with a ruptured spleen anymore.

    Edit: I don't even know why I am speaking in defense of WWE. They're the fucking worst. Though it is fair to say the current talent is compensated reasonably within their contracts and employment status.
    This is a bad take... all the people you listed wouldn’t be in the WWE, if it were not for their previous work. If it wasn’t for the risks they were taking, all WWE would be is a bunch of body builders doing their version of the spear.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    This is a bad take... all the people you listed wouldn’t be in the WWE, if it were not for their previous work. If it wasn’t for the risks they were taking, all WWE would be is a bunch of body builders doing their version of the spear.
    That may be, but WWE certainly has no responsibility or obligation legally to compensate Richoceht for the knee injury he had prior to WWE (2, iirc) or dole out payments for Cole's numerous concussions prior to WWE. And they don't. They may be what got them to WWE, but WWE certainly ain't paying for it.

    I am not saying it's right. But WWE really isn't going to start paying performers based on the miles they put on their respective bump cards prior to drawing for them. That's just the way it is. To say they are not compensating AJ or Shinsuke for what they are doing now, for WWE, because they had plenty of injuries in TNA, NJPW, PWG, and so on is wrong.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    So... much... wrong... There are no incentives... they just got told that they can’t even have social media accounts. They dropped Thea Megan Trinidad for having a twitch account.
    Wasn't it more that they can't earn money from social media accounts? And what really got her future endeavoured was the onlyfans account, not so much twitch.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Most do... but, I still find it strange that no one calls these people their actual names. Is Steve Austin that much easier to remember than Steve Williams? HHH I can understand... who the hell can spell French names, Loveque... But, Mark Calaway? Should be easy...

    - - - Updated - - -



    There is all sorts of different kind of wrestling out there... you strike me as an NJPW fan...

    Here is a favorite of mine... he said... this woman will sing my entrance music... no one had the the balls to say no...

    To be fair to Austin there was already another Steve Williams out there. Who was big enough when Austin started that he needed his own stage name. Then later on he legally changed his name to Steve Austin.

  13. #53
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corvus View Post
    Wasn't it more that they can't earn money from social media accounts? And what really got her future endeavoured was the onlyfans account, not so much twitch.
    No, everyone else left twitch. Cesaro had a silly gaming channel, with usually less than 10 viewers and even he had to pull the plug. Some wrestlers were making more money on social media, than WWE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kallisto View Post
    To be fair to Austin there was already another Steve Williams out there. Who was big enough when Austin started that he needed his own stage name. Then later on he legally changed his name to Steve Austin.
    Sure, but even then... it would be hard to mistake Dr Death for a Hollywood Blond... plus, WWE has to own the name... it’s why Cody Rhodes was Cody and Brandy Rhodes... WWE owned Cody Rhodes until last month...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    That may be, but WWE certainly has no responsibility or obligation legally to compensate Richoceht for the knee injury he had prior to WWE (2, iirc) or dole out payments for Cole's numerous concussions prior to WWE. And they don't. They may be what got them to WWE, but WWE certainly ain't paying for it.

    I am not saying it's right. But WWE really isn't going to start paying performers based on the miles they put on their respective bump cards prior to drawing for them. That's just the way it is. To say they are not compensating AJ or Shinsuke for what they are doing now, for WWE, because they had plenty of injuries in TNA, NJPW, PWG, and so on is wrong.
    But, it’s about the injuries the suffer while in WWE. The place that makes by far the most money on their work. It’s not across the board either... WWE has been very generous for covering substance abuse from wrestlers that are no longer working for them or never even worked for them. Tyson Tomco spent more time in rehab on WWE dime, than actually being employed by WWE.

    It’s not all bad, but there not being a standard, makes people who most fans don’t care about, fall through the cracks.
    As above, so below.
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    My body is a wonderland.

  14. #54
    A long long time ago, in a distant world and a far away place (or so it seems now), I took my step son to see matches in which both the Undertaker and also Hulk Hogan performed. I liked Undertaker, he liked Hulk Hogan. We bought the Undertaker and Hulk Hogan big hand thingies they sold, and we played out "wrestling matches" for quite a while after that. The Undertaker was always my favorite wrestler in the time I watched wrestling.

    He liked wrestling a lot until one time we got real up close seats to see a match. The performers weren't at their best, and from that distance we could clearly see that the "blows to the body" were not connecting and it was all an act. He never mentioned wrestling again.

    Still. as long as we were watching from a distance, the show they put on was quite entertaining.

    And I agree with the title of this thread.

    Thank you Undertaker.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya View Post
    Yeah, I can think of a few... Nathan Jones and Achim Albrecht... Google them... what you said is ridiculous.

    Bad ass dudes is also kinda funny... it’s cardio...


    Holy fucking shit, that's AIDS to watch. Just SO BAD ACTING AND FAKE NEWS.
    Last edited by trapmaster; 2020-11-25 at 07:02 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by trapmaster View Post
    Holy fucking shit, that's AIDS to watch. Just SO BAD ACTING AND FAKE NEWS.
    DDT is a comedy promotion. They wrestle in a baseball field/playing baseball, champions have been pinned in a dream and the title transferred IRL to the person who beat them in the dream, the wrestled at a water park, etc.

    One of the guys in that video, Kota Ibushi, fought through an apartment complex and wrestled a blow-up doll. The blow-up doll was a champion at one point, IIRC.

    It's absurdist.



    A legend.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2020-11-25 at 09:10 PM.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

  17. #57
    Hello to wrassle mmo
    Not like an actual game

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    I don't understand it myself. Like.. these people know that they are acting right?
    Do you every watch like any tv show that's fiction? You do know that Bryan Cranston isn't cooking meth, or that Star Wars isn't real right? You do understand they are acting right?

  19. #59
    Herald of the Titans Cidzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fencers View Post
    DDT is a comedy promotion. They wrestle in a baseball field/playing baseball, champions have been pinned in a dream and the title transferred IRL to the person who beat them in the dream, the wrestled at a water park, etc.

    One of the guys in that video, Kota Ibushi, fought through an apartment complex and wrestled a blow-up doll. The blow-up doll was a champion at one point, IIRC.

    It's absurdist.



    A legend.
    That's hilarious. But.....not gonna lie, I do find it pretty impressive the way the actual human wrestler sold some of the moves.
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    never dick crazy.
    unless they have tentacles and more then 2 eyes.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Cidzor View Post
    That's hilarious. But.....not gonna lie, I do find it pretty impressive the way the actual human wrestler sold some of the moves.
    That was the whole point. "Ibushi is so good, he can wrestle himself" and basically did.

    His partner and sometime rival, Kenny Omega also wrestled a 9-year-old girl safely. Being able to pull off cool looking moves safely and make their execution seem plausible is held in high regard.

    But Omega did stuff like this too:



    It is also possible for two entirely invisible entities to wrestle...



    Incredible match between these two unseen titans.
    Last edited by Fencers; 2020-12-01 at 06:39 PM.
    "It's a big club. And you ain't in it. It is also the club they use to beat you with." - George Carlin

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