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  1. #1

    Sylvar and Venthyr Allied Races for Alliance and Horde Respectively

    Worgen and Undead don't have allied race counterparts yet. These 2 fit perfectly

    Slyvar: Satyr-like bestial humanoid like worgen,stands upright, has connections with night elves and worgen
    because of similar beliefs. Has horns and hooves like draenei. Looks badass. Furry. From Ardenweald.

    Venthyr: First true vampire race. Finally vampire vs. werewolf trope can be a thing in WoW with worgen vs venthyr.
    Upright undead. Looks badass. From Revendreth.

    blue human Kyrian and Maldraxxus dead human are not nearly as interesting as these two races above.
    Also Ardenweald fairies can technically fly, whereas no other race can at the moment so they're out.
    Last edited by SLbetterthan BFA; 2020-11-25 at 07:58 AM.

  2. #2
    Beings from another plane of existence should not join the mortal factions. It's as if angels were real in our world and they would suddenly join the American army to participate in some petty squabble with another country. Why?

  3. #3
    Well, since the mortal races are crossing over into the realms of death (See SL story) it pretty much becomes their problem.
    Slyvar will want to maintain some kind of balance like night elves, and Venthyr are starved for anima like blood elves.

    Other than that Blizzard will want to cash in on players who want to play them,
    they can always make something up, akin to how void elves and nightborne became ARs so there ya go.

    - - - Updated - - -

    also Lothal's suggestion is perfectly plausible
    Last edited by SLbetterthan BFA; 2020-11-23 at 11:24 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioriel View Post
    Just gonna go with whatever feels the most fun on my toon first. Then try all the others over the next 2 years. CBA with the mental gymnastics of it all.

    Big ol' game, may as well try it all out having paid for it.
    Well they aren't in yet but very well could be in the future XD

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rioriel View Post
    Think I replied to the wrong thread It's been a long morning!
    no worries, better get some sleep in now before launch !

  6. #6
    I hope the Venthyr will be playable in the future.

  7. #7
    I can't put my finger on it but for some reason I feel like OP is biased.

  8. #8
    If they're gonna add SL races into the game it'll be later on in the lifecycle of Shadowlands. They certainly don't seem to have any plans for it now.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Beings from another plane of existence should not join the mortal factions. It's as if angels were real in our world and they would suddenly join the American army to participate in some petty squabble with another country. Why?
    Because theyre not jist angels, they were mortals who died. Some of them were already members of the Horde and Alliance, and then their plane of existence will have been saved by those factions

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! Selastan's Avatar
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    It doesn't really fit, unless, like others have said, something big happens in the Shadowlands for these races to go into the mortal realm. Maybe they form a coalition to stop mortals from fucking with the afterlife, and players who pick these races are sent as ambassadors? Either way, every new race that isn't ethereal is a wasted opportunity.

  11. #11
    the only race left to ponder are pandaren - but they don't need any allied races really

    - - - Updated - - -

    kyrian woudl not fit because they can fly

    - - - Updated - - -

    and maldraxxian human can basically be role-played via a kul'tiran in a bony armor set

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Beings from another plane of existence should not join the mortal factions. It's as if angels were real in our world and they would suddenly join the American army to participate in some petty squabble with another country. Why?
    We got alternate dimension orcs when we could have gotten outlands mag'har I don't think they care where someone is from as long as they like em.

    To learn about the mortal races and fix their flawed afterlives.

  13. #13
    Kyrian and Night Fae NPCs already make several references to 'wanting to visit our world some day', it will happen.

    The Maldraxxus people look much more interesting than they do in-game, I think they have decent potential. Under the hood, the Gladiators have skeletal features too, just with non-skeletal bodies. Compared to Kyrians, Venthyr and Sylvar the Gladiators are the least developed but the art for Margrave Krexus is really cool.

    Last edited by choom; 2020-11-24 at 07:42 PM.

  14. #14
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    I would really rather not burn resource-intensive, time-gated Allied Race slots on Shadowlands races.

    There's very little reason for any denizen of The Afterlife™ to come to the mortal world & participate in mortal affairs. We, currently, are threatened by goings on in their realm, it's not really a two way street, even if we take a charitable view of Sylvanas as a mortal actor.

    They would run the risk of being out of place almost immediately after the expansion ends. We might get a few cameos. Perhaps Venthyr Quest Givers in 10.0 will torture some named mob for information in a throwaway quest, but for them to be active participants in the story presents a challenge that Blizzard's writers just aren't capable of living up to. There's not an immediately obvious way to have them active on and integrated into Azeroth without cheapening and undermining their raison d'etre.

    Additionally, even though the primary focus right now is on the Shadowlands, there are far better Allied Race candidates elsewhere. Races that are more popular, more established in lore, have better reasons for joining one of the two factions, and don't have the issue of staying power that an inhabitant from Revendreth or Ardenweald has.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    Additionally, even though the primary focus right now is on the Shadowlands, there are far better Allied Race candidates elsewhere. Races that are more popular, more established in lore, have better reasons for joining one of the two factions, and don't have the issue of staying power that an inhabitant from Revendreth or Ardenweald has.
    Always name your alternatives in any discussion.

    So which two races that are more established do you suggest fit better for worgen and undead?

  16. #16
    Titan Wildberry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLbetterthan BFA View Post
    Always name your alternatives in any discussion.

    So which two races that are more established do you suggest fit better for worgen and undead?
    I would start by rejecting the premise that Allied Races necessarily need to have an arbitrary correlation with their "Parent Race." I think between Kul Tiran using an entirely custom rig, & Vulpera having no real link to Goblins, there's enough precedent for standalone Allied Races that don't need to be "The Worgen Allied Race™," for example.

    With that in mind, here are a few that I feel would be inherently better than any Shadowlands denizen simply on account of the fact that they're more well-established in lore, have (semi-)plausible reasons to join a faction, are mortal & consequently tied to Azeroth, and don't have their racial existence undermined by interfering in mortal affairs.

    Alliance:
    -Broken Draenei
    -Furbolg
    -Jinyu
    -Frostborn Dwarves
    -Iron Dwarves
    -Arrakoa

    Either:
    -Vrykul
    -Naga
    -Ethereal
    -Tortollan
    -Tuskarr

    Horde:
    -Ogre
    -Mok'nathal
    -Taunka
    -Hozen
    -Gilgoblin
    -Forest Troll
    -San'layn

    etc.

    Overall, there are only three on that list that I'm personally dying to play, and I'm largely uninterested in the rest. But just off the top of my head, we can justify all of those (Though some may be mutually exclusive [Dwarf variants]) according to current Allied Race Precedents.
    Last edited by Wildberry; 2020-11-25 at 09:50 AM.

  17. #17
    Please no. Any race from Shadowlands should be for either faction if it's made an allied race, as they're in no way tied to Azeroth factions.

    They follow the same as Pandaren in this way, therefore they should be able to be made on either faction (if at all). BFA/Legion allied races at least make sense to be faction tied because it's your faction that helped them.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    I would start by rejecting the premise that Allied Races necessarily need to have an arbitrary correlation with their "Parent Race." I think between Kul Tiran using an entirely custom rig, & Vulpera having no real link to Goblins, there's enough precedent for standalone Allied Races that don't need to be "The Worgen Allied Race™," for example.

    With that in mind, here are a few that I feel would be inherently better than any Shadowlands denizen simply on account of the fact that they're more well-established in lore, have (semi-)plausible reasons to join a faction, are mortal & consequently tied to Azeroth, and don't have their racial existence undermined by interfering in mortal affairs.

    Alliance:
    -Broken Draenei
    -Furbolg
    -Jinyu
    -Frostborn Dwarves
    -Iron Dwarves
    -Arrakoa

    Either:
    -Vrykul
    -Naga
    -Ethereal
    -Tortollan
    -Tuskarr

    Horde:
    -Ogre
    -Mok'nathal
    -Taunka
    -Hozen
    -Gilgoblin
    -Forest Troll
    -San'layn

    etc.

    Overall, there are only three on that list that I'm personally dying to play, and I'm largely uninterested in the rest. But just off the top of my head, we can justify all of those (Though some may be mutually exclusive [Dwarf variants]) according to current Allied Race Precedents.
    This list is very good, we should indeed be able to choose from these also.

    Yes, Vulpera is by all means the only outlier as opposed to the rest of the allied races in that apart from the small stature, and the model they use apart from the head, (and maybe one could shoehorn ingenuity in albeit that would already be quite a stretch) nothing else connects them to goblins, agreed. I disagree on Kul'tiran, they are just fat human even if they use a new rig.

    However, in light of not altogether rejecting the parent race, as all other allied races apart form vulpera don't, I would pick the 2 most fitting candidates from the ones you listed:

    Arrakoa - Worgen/Alliance (We got pandaren so furbolgs could go there if needed)
    (Also reject Jinyu, becuase for their Hozen-goblin counterparts we already got vulpera.)

    San'layn - Undead/Horde vampire like venthyr but still they are elf vampire, and we have so many elves already.
    (Ethereal could fit the undead theme somewhat too, but then the vampire vs. werewolf theme either san'layn or venthyr could bring would be out of the equation)

    Overall these 2 would be okay, but a fitting story should be established first for them to join.

    Seeing, however, that we don't know yet how Shadowlands could end, and how any allied races first introduced in legion like highmountain tauren and lightforged draenei are still sticking to their factions despite us being 2 expansions over that content already,

    I still maintain that Slyvar and Venthyr would be able to join the respective factions,
    akin how nightborne and void elves joined theirs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Out of curiosity: You mentioned 3 races you would love to play personally. Which ones are they?
    Last edited by SLbetterthan BFA; 2020-11-25 at 11:24 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SLbetterthan BFA View Post
    Worgen and Undead don't have allied race counterparts yet. These 2 fit perfectly

    Slyvar: Satyr-like bestial humanoid like worgen,stands upright, has connections with night elves and worgen
    because of similar beliefs. Has horns and hooves like draenei. Looks badass. Furry. From Ardenweald.

    Venthyr: First true vampire race. Finally vampire vs. werewolf trope can be a thing in WoW with worgen vs venthyr.
    Upright undead. Looks badass. From Revendreth.

    blue human Kyrian and Maldraxxus dead human are not nearly as interesting as these two races above.
    Also Ardenweald fairies can technically fly, whereas no other race can at the moment so they're out.
    Already confirmation that all 4 factions will eventually in later patches be available as allied races.

    Its more than likely Alliance is getting Kyrian and Sylvar while the Horde gets Venthyr and probably the Abomination subrace of Maldraxxus.

    The reason is quite simple:

    Faction specific characters, Ysera maybe neutral but shes popularly believed to be involved with the emerald dream and takes a night elf form, typically, favouring the Alliance as Uther is also part of it, meaning its more than likely the Nightfae and Kyrian Covenants will join the Alliance.

    While Drakka and Kaelthas speak for themselves.

    It is also probable that after that we will get 2 more sub races towards the end of the expansion, which im heavily suspecting will be Vrykul (Alliance) and Ogres (Horde) because I have a feeling post SL is gonna be the Dragon Isles since its the last major continent in Azeroth's lore I can think of besides Tel'abim and Hiji unless they make new ones.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SLbetterthan BFA View Post
    Worgen and Undead don't have allied race counterparts yet. These 2 fit perfectly

    Slyvar: Satyr-like bestial humanoid like worgen,stands upright, has connections with night elves and worgen
    because of similar beliefs. Has horns and hooves like draenei. Looks badass. Furry. From Ardenweald.

    Venthyr: First true vampire race. Finally vampire vs. werewolf trope can be a thing in WoW with worgen vs venthyr.
    Upright undead. Looks badass. From Revendreth.

    blue human Kyrian and Maldraxxus dead human are not nearly as interesting as these two races above.
    Also Ardenweald fairies can technically fly, whereas no other race can at the moment so they're out.
    The Undead allied race would probably be Calia and Derek type of Undead. as for Worgen, i can only think of the Sethrak (thought about night elven worgen, but they're not relevant right now).

    The Venthyr would probably be the next round of allied races' Blood elf equivalent, while the Sylvar would be the Night elf equivalent.

    Who determined it? i find them very interesting, and they will probably become playable along with the Venthyr and Sylvar as the Orc and Human equivalents on the next round (no point on introducing the four of them, but just making only two of them playable).

    Quote Originally Posted by BaumanKing View Post
    Beings from another plane of existence should not join the mortal factions. It's as if angels were real in our world and they would suddenly join the American army to participate in some petty squabble with another country. Why?
    It's a fantasy game, for crying out loud. you have Werewolves from the Emerald Dream, Orcs from another planet, Minotaurs, Trolls, Dwarves, Gnomes, Elves, Goblins, Protoss aliens from another planet, raised Undead humans and Kong-fu Pandas.

    You know what's missing, mythologically? playable Vampires, Fauns and Angels (and, apparently, Gladiators).

    Quote Originally Posted by Selastan View Post
    It doesn't really fit, unless, like others have said, something big happens in the Shadowlands for these races to go into the mortal realm. Maybe they form a coalition to stop mortals from fucking with the afterlife, and players who pick these races are sent as ambassadors? Either way, every new race that isn't ethereal is a wasted opportunity.
    You are, literally, helping their faction and building reputation with them. sounds familiar? that's how allied races were recruited during BFA.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLbetterthan BFA View Post
    the only race left to ponder are pandaren - but they don't need any allied races really

    - - - Updated - - -

    kyrian woudl not fit because they can fly

    - - - Updated - - -

    and maldraxxian human can basically be role-played via a kul'tiran in a bony armor set
    only the ascended ones. aspirants haven't got wings, are on a playable model standard and are not overly huge, like the winged ones.

    No. Kul Tirans are not undead. they can't be roleplayed as Maldraxxus Gladiators. even with a Death Knight class. have you seen Krexus' face? does it look anything like a Kul Tiran? does he have a beer belly like Kul Tirans or a six pack?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    I would really rather not burn resource-intensive, time-gated Allied Race slots on Shadowlands races.

    There's very little reason for any denizen of The Afterlife™ to come to the mortal world & participate in mortal affairs. We, currently, are threatened by goings on in their realm, it's not really a two way street, even if we take a charitable view of Sylvanas as a mortal actor.

    They would run the risk of being out of place almost immediately after the expansion ends. We might get a few cameos. Perhaps Venthyr Quest Givers in 10.0 will torture some named mob for information in a throwaway quest, but for them to be active participants in the story presents a challenge that Blizzard's writers just aren't capable of living up to. There's not an immediately obvious way to have them active on and integrated into Azeroth without cheapening and undermining their raison d'etre.

    Additionally, even though the primary focus right now is on the Shadowlands, there are far better Allied Race candidates elsewhere. Races that are more popular, more established in lore, have better reasons for joining one of the two factions, and don't have the issue of staying power that an inhabitant from Revendreth or Ardenweald has.
    Again, we are, literally, helping them in the Shadowlands expansion and building a reputation with them. do you think they were added just to be an expansion-worth of races and then be gone for good? they would, most likely, want to repay us back by joining us. that's how the allied races of BFA were recruited.

    It's not resource intensive. The Kyrians are already using the female Vrykul skeleton, the Sylvar are using the female Draenei skeleton, the female Maldraxxus Gladiator is using the female Kul Tiran skeleton and the male Maldraxxus Gladiator is using the Ogre skeleton with a different posture. I don't know what Venthyr uses, but they are, clearly, using a previous-used skeleton.
    don't you think they already set them up as future allied races? it is pretty clear to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryzeth View Post
    Please no. Any race from Shadowlands should be for either faction if it's made an allied race, as they're in no way tied to Azeroth factions.

    They follow the same as Pandaren in this way, therefore they should be able to be made on either faction (if at all). BFA/Legion allied races at least make sense to be faction tied because it's your faction that helped them.
    Both factions helped the Nightborne, Highmountain Tauren and Lightforged Draenei. Yet, they decided to join each faction based on their relations to a race on a certain faction. Nightborne resemble the Blood elf, culturally. Highmountain Tauren resemble the Tauren and Lightforged Draenei resemble the Draenei.

    Therefore, Shadowlands races will join whatever faction they have most in common with. Kyrians with the Humans, Necrolords with the Orcs, Night Fae with the Night elves and Venthyr with the Blood elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wildberry View Post
    I would start by rejecting the premise that Allied Races necessarily need to have an arbitrary correlation with their "Parent Race." I think between Kul Tiran using an entirely custom rig, & Vulpera having no real link to Goblins, there's enough precedent for standalone Allied Races that don't need to be "The Worgen Allied Race™," for example.

    With that in mind, here are a few that I feel would be inherently better than any Shadowlands denizen simply on account of the fact that they're more well-established in lore, have (semi-)plausible reasons to join a faction, are mortal & consequently tied to Azeroth, and don't have their racial existence undermined by interfering in mortal affairs.

    Alliance:
    -Broken Draenei
    -Furbolg
    -Jinyu
    -Frostborn Dwarves
    -Iron Dwarves
    -Arrakoa

    Either:
    -Vrykul
    -Naga
    -Ethereal
    -Tortollan
    -Tuskarr

    Horde:
    -Ogre
    -Mok'nathal
    -Taunka
    -Hozen
    -Gilgoblin
    -Forest Troll
    -San'layn

    etc.

    Overall, there are only three on that list that I'm personally dying to play, and I'm largely uninterested in the rest. But just off the top of my head, we can justify all of those (Though some may be mutually exclusive [Dwarf variants]) according to current Allied Race Precedents.
    I agree with you on Broken Draenei (Argus model), Vrykul, Naga, Ethereal, Ogre, Gilgoblin and Forest Troll.

    The Broken Draenei of Argus are already using the updated Draenei model, and are likely to join the Horde, as they resent Velen.

    Vrykul fill the fantasy of a viking, like no other race (even Dwarves). Kyrian using the female Vrykul skeleton is a good sign for Vrykul, as the female model was less on a playable model standard than the males.

    Chris Metzen wanted Naga to be playable, and they were considered at one point, during Vanilla WoW. they present gameplay difficulties, however, and that is why they were dropped as potential candidates. They have much in common with the Blood elves and Nightborne when it comes to magic addiction. They had their own faction during Warcraft 3, with their own units, buildings and hero. There is hope, however, as the almost playable model of the Sethrak could be a prototype to a playable serpent race, like the Naga. although, with Naz'jatar done in 8.2, story-wise they are not so relevant anymore.

    Ethereals were given new textures during Legion, but retained their lackluster model. they were given female voices as well. but, don't despair. Brokers are probably a prototype to playable Ethereals, as their looks, culture and up-to-date animations puts them as a likely candidate.

    Ogres were part of the Horde for so long. Chris Metzen advocated for them, and they were considered for Cataclysm instead of Goblins. they presented model difficulties, with their two-headed variants and ugly females. But, Mag'har Orcs brought with them, from Alternate Draenor, the Stonemaul clan of Ogres. plus, Rexxar is using a Kul Tiran skeleton, that can be used for Ogres. male Maldraxxus Gladiators use an Ogre skeleton with a different posture. so, technically, the female Ogre can use the female Kul Tiran skeleton.

    Gilgoblins are already part of the Horde, and are awaiting to join the Horde on the shores of Durotar (no other Naz'jatar race have done it). as for their oudated models, they were introduced before the Goblins got updated models. so, now, after it happened, they can use the updated skeletons.

    Forest Trolls have been part of the Horde, almost as much as the Ogres. they are crucial to the Horde's identity. There is the Revantusk tribe of Hinterlands that is allied with the Horde, to all you skeptics. yet, again, we've got good news, as the playable Trolls didn't get a Forest Troll customization options in Shadowlands (but they did get Sand trolls and Dark trolls). that means that the Forest Trolls are more likely to be a playable race, than a customization option.

    Frostborn Dwaves could, easily, be added as customization options to the Dwarf race. Mok'nathal are a hybrid race, and they never added a hybrid race before (though, elves got half-elf ear customization options - so that is possible). as for the San'layn, we have a Vampire race ready to go in the Shadowlands - the Venthyr. they are already have up-to-date models, and yet the San'layn are outdated.
    Last edited by username993720; 2020-11-25 at 01:13 PM.

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