Sylvar and Venthyr Allied Races for Alliance and Horde Respectively

[howdy]

Kyrians have nothing to do with the light. You get confused with real life religion here.



They are not a part of the Horde. They were a part of Sylvanas' forces, loyal to her. She's gone, so are they.



That makes the most sense.

Also makes sense, but their behavior would not be accepted in the post 4th war Horde, except we get another 180 that makes the Horde the bad guys again. The warrior part maybe fits, but not the necromancy.

I didn't say anything about the light. I said angelic beings fit the Humans:
In Warcraft 3 the Human Paladin hero unit summoned an angelic being everytime he used the resurrection spell.
In World of Warcraft, the Paladin spell, Guardian of Ancient Kings summons and angelic being.
Archbishop Benedictus, former head of the Church of Light, wore the Avatar rainment - and agelic-themed armor set.

It doesn't matter. The fact is that there were vampires officially part of the Horde:
Blood-Prince Dreven.
Blood marquess/marquis.
San'layn Neophyte.
Varimathras (Dreadlords are former Revendreth denizens).

You forget that Sylvanas recruited the Zandalari, as well. That didn't make them part of her forces.

You forget that the Forsaken and Orcs did not give up on their cultures. War and glory is still part of the Orcs after the 4th war, and will always continue to be so. Necromancy will, always, be part of the Forsaken, even after the 4th war. The Horde didn't abandon these ways. They just keep them in check for the time being.

[Eosia]

1. Kyrians are angelic beings, mostly represented by the Human Paladins and Priests.

And who also have their minds purged of memories and thus start as a clean slate. No class or faction loyalties remain. They do not even know where they come from anymore.

2. The Venthyr are vampiric creatures, like the San'layn, which were offered induction into the Horde by Sylvanas.

The San'layn were High Elves first and foremost.

3. Fauns are woodlands creatures, like the Dryad and Keepers of the Grove - friends of the Night elves.

And Tauren.

4. Maldraxxus Gladiators are a combination of Forsaken and Orcish aesthetics. On one hand, you've got the Scourge aesthetics, which are present in Forsaken lands. On the other hand, you've got the war and glory aspects, which are valued by the Orcs.

As well as Human Sorcerers and Void-Mutated High Elves.

You also seem to be complete, and conveniently, ignoring the fact that the Shadowlands does not host the dead from Azeroth to the exclusion of all others. They come from many other worlds such as Fyzandi.

[LordVargK]

I didn't say anything about the light. I said angelic beings fit the Humans:
In Warcraft 3 the Human Paladin hero unit summoned an angelic being everytime he used the resurrection spell.
In World of Warcraft, the Paladin spell, Guardian of Ancient Kings summons and angelic being.
Archbishop Benedictus, former head of the Church of Light, wore the Avatar rainment - and agelic-themed armor set.

That would make more sense, if paladins remained Human only. But they are not. Blood elves are now big players. Lady Liandrin is probably the character most famous as a living paladin right now. She is maybe rivaled by Turalyon and Bolvar, but the former is best know as Allerias husband and the latter is the DK leader now and no longer paladin. Paladins are no longer an Human only force.

It doesn't matter. The fact is that there were vampires officially part of the Horde:
Blood-Prince Dreven.
Blood marquess/marquis.
San'layn Neophyte.
Varimathras (Dreadlords are former Revendreth denizens).

None of these were part of the Horde. The San'layn never made it to the Horde. Varimathras never was Horde. He was an infiltrator and more of an enemy of the Horde than an asset. That's like saying that the black Dragons are part of the Alliance because Onyxia operated at the Stormwind court.

You forget that Sylvanas recruited the Zandalari, as well. That didn't make them part of her forces.

The Zandalari officially joined the Horde after Sylvanas's betrayal. Sylvannas was not the one making the diplomatic connections, infact she might be the reason why the Zandalari did not immediatly join.

You forget that the Forsaken and Orcs did not give up on their cultures. War and glory is still part of the Orcs after the 4th war, and will always continue to be so. Necromancy will, always, be part of the Forsaken, even after the 4th war. The Horde didn't abandon these ways. They just keep them in check for the time being.

Necromancy wasn't even part of the OG WoW forsaken. They sought a cure for their undeadness, they did not want to make even more. Also Blizz zigzags between Orcs being green humans and bloodthristy monsters. I argue that the Orcs don't have a defined culture. Because there are drastic differences between the original Horde, Thrall's Horde, Garrosh's Horde, the current Horde, etc...

[howdy]

And who also have their minds purged of memories and thus start as a clean slate. No class or faction loyalties remain. They do not even know where they come from anymore.



The San'layn were High Elves first and foremost.



And Tauren.



As well as Human Sorcerers and Void-Mutated High Elves.

You also seem to be complete, and conveniently, ignoring the fact that the Shadowlands does not host the dead from Azeroth to the exclusion of all others. They come from many other worlds such as Fyzandi.

I never said they retained memories of their former selves. I said angelic themes are prominent in Human culture.

The San'layn (sometimes spelled in lowercase, also known as the Darkfallen) are vampyr blood elves in service to the Scourge. They used to be among Kael'thas Sunstrider's greatest followers.

Tauren are not woodland creatures. They are based on the minotaur. Just because they have Hooves and Horns doesn't make them a fairy-woodland creature.

How are Human sorcerers and Void elves fit the themes of Maldraxxus Gladiators?

It doesn't matter where they come from. It matters what faction, and which, races they are most associated with.

That would make more sense, if paladins remained Human only. But they are not. Blood elves are now big players. Lady Liandrin is probably the character most famous as a living paladin right now. She is maybe rivaled by Turalyon and Bolvar, but the former is best know as Allerias husband and the latter is the DK leader now and no longer paladin. Paladins are no longer an Human only force.



None of these were part of the Horde. The San'layn never made it to the Horde. Varimathras never was Horde. He was an infiltrator and more of an enemy of the Horde than an asset. That's like saying that the black Dragons are part of the Alliance because Onyxia operated at the Stormwind court.



The Zandalari officially joined the Horde after Sylvanas's betrayal. Sylvannas was not the one making the diplomatic connections, infact she might be the reason why the Zandalari did not immediatly join.



Necromancy wasn't even part of the OG WoW forsaken. They sought a cure for their undeadness, they did not want to make even more. Also Blizz zigzags between Orcs being green humans and bloodthristy monsters. I argue that the Orcs don't have a defined culture. Because there are drastic differences between the original Horde, Thrall's Horde, Garrosh's Horde, the current Horde, etc...

You don't get the point. Blood Knights are not associated with angels, whatsoever. They draw their power from the Sunwell. Vindicators draw theirs from the Naaru. Sunwalker draw theirs from the Sun. Prelates draw theirs from Loa. Humans draw theirs from faith, which incorporates angelic beings in it.
That's why in Warcraft 1 and 2 it is said:
"As the archangels took up swords of light to defend the heavens, so must we take up holy arms to defend our lands".
"As the guardians took up swords of light to defend the heavens, so must the holy men of earth be prepared to combat the dark tide that was quickly approaching from the south."

Never part of the Horde?
Blood Prince Dreven: Affiliation(s) Horde
Blood Marquess/Marquis: Reaction Alliance
San'layn Neophyte: Reaction Alliance Horde
Varimathras: Former affiliation(s) Scourge, Sylvanas' Forces, Forsaken, Horde, Deathstalkers, Shadowstalkers.

Then, you didn't play the Zandalari recruitment scenario:
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Congratulations, Your Majesty.
Queen Talanji says: Thank you, Warchief. I believe we have an urgent matter to discuss, now dat I am queen.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Yes, it is beyond time we did.
Queen Talanji says: De Horde has been a trustworthy ally to Zandalar.
Queen Talanji says: Without our partnership, we may not have overcome de threats dat rose against us.
Queen Talanji says: I understand dat you have need of our forces. De Alliance will stop at nothing to destroy you.
Queen Talanji says: So let it be official. De Zandalari and de Horde will stand together... as equals.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: Equals?
ueen Talanji says: I am de queen of Zandalar. And a queen kneels to no one. Surely, you understand.
Lady Sylvanas Windrunner says: I see... Very well, Queen Talanji. The Horde welcomes you.

Are you serious?
The entire Undercity aesthetics are green sludge pools and Abomination guards, like found in Maldraxxus. The Horde, literally, accepted the Mag'har orcs last expansion - the most war-like race.

[Eosia]

I never said they retained memories of their former selves. I said angelic themes are prominent in Human culture.

Which is irrelevant. Not to mention, if you have actually played Shadowlands, is that they cannot become involved with outside affairs. The Path they follow demands strict neutrality in order to carry out the function for which they were designed.

The San'layn (sometimes spelled in lowercase, also known as the Darkfallen) are vampyr blood elves in service to the Scourge. They used to be among Kael'thas Sunstrider's greatest followers.

Who were High Elves. In case you have forgotten the lore, High Elves and Blood Elves are the same race.

Tauren are not woodland creatures. They are based on the minotaur. Just because they have Hooves and Horns doesn't make them a fairy-woodland creature.

Taurens are Druids too.

How are Human sorcerers and Void elves fit the themes of Maldraxxus Gladiators?

Kel'Thuzad and Lady Vashj say Hi!

It doesn't matter where they come from. It matters what faction, and which, races they are most associated with.

Which would be both.

[howdy]

Which is irrelevant. Not to mention, if you have actually played Shadowlands, is that they cannot become involved with outside affairs. The Path they follow demands strict neutrality in order to carry out the function for which they were designed.



Who were High Elves. In case you have forgotten the lore, High Elves and Blood Elves are the same race.



Taurens are Druids too.



Kel'Thuzad and Lady Vashj say Hi!



Which would be both.

You forget that once they abandon their duties and join us, none of this interference bullshit matters anymore.

They only became San'layn after being Blood elves, not while being High elves. and Kael'thas is much more related to the Blood elves than to the High elves of the Alliance.

Worgen, Kul Tirans, Trolls and Zandalari can, also, be Druids. It does not make them woodland creatures.

Kel'thuzad and Lady Vashj are not part of the Alliance. Meanwhile, Draka has been a prominent figure in Maldraxxus and even got her own animated short.

Not, it won't be.
Good angelic beings with a culture of justice and valor do not fit the Horde.
Gladiators with undead aesthetics and war-like culture do not fit the Alliance.
Fauns with an affinity to nature, night time, stars, wild gods, and fairies do not fit within the Horde.
Vampire creatures with an arrogant manner and a love for torturing do not fit within the Alliance.

[Swnem]

Please cite your source because the Spirit Healers are from the Shadowlands and have been from the start.

Oh, and something about Dreadlords being made by Denathrius. Oh, and Wild Gods going back and forth. Oh, and obviously the Scourge being based on Maldraxxus.

Get where this is going?

So, are we gonna get Spirit Healer allied race, Dreadlord allied race and Wild God allied race? Ok, cool.

[shoc]

Which is irrelevant. Not to mention, if you have actually played Shadowlands, is that they cannot become involved with outside affairs. The Path they follow demands strict neutrality in order to carry out the function for which they were designed.

Are we even playing the same game here? The Shadowlands getting bailed out by 'outside affairs' is like the name of the game for every covenant. 'The Path' is already broken, and Kyrestria ultimately admits at the end of SoA dungeon that the Forsworn critique of the Kyrian way wasn't entirely unjustified.

Kyrestria at the end of SoA: "Long have we believed that our mortal lives are burdens to be shed in the name of service. And yet, the deeds of mortals are what won the day. You have my gratitude. Once the Jailer lies defeated... there may be much more for the Kyrian to discuss."

The Dreadlords/Nathrezim are native to the Shadowlands yet becoming involved with outside affairs is literally all they are known to do.

[Eosia]

The Dreadlords/Nathrezim are native to the Shadowlands yet becoming involved with outside affairs is literally all they are known to do.

Which supports what I said. The Nethrazim did this by design. The Kyrian, again by design, are to ferry souls to the Arbiter.

[howdy]

Which supports what I said. The Nethrazim did this by design. The Kyrian, again by design, are to ferry souls to the Arbiter.

Only if they got wings. otherwise, they're useless. and those are the type that will be joining us.

[RobertMugabe]

Worgen and Undead don't have allied race counterparts yet. These 2 fit perfectly

Slyvar: Satyr-like bestial humanoid like worgen,stands upright, has connections with night elves and worgen
because of similar beliefs. Has horns and hooves like draenei. Looks badass. Furry. From Ardenweald.

Venthyr: First true vampire race. Finally vampire vs. werewolf trope can be a thing in WoW with worgen vs venthyr.
Upright undead. Looks badass. From Revendreth.

blue human Kyrian and Maldraxxus dead human are not nearly as interesting as these two races above.
Also Ardenweald fairies can technically fly, whereas no other race can at the moment so they're out.

No, fuck that shit. If they were to add the covenants as allied races, then they should add all of them and make all of them neutral.

Also Sylvar look like shit and don't fit the Alliance specifically at all. If anything, what the Alliance does not need right now is a race that is really similar to existing ones and same goes for Horde. If your suggestion actually came forward, then Venthyr go to the Alliance and Sylvar to the Horde.

That being said, I don't think we will get any Allied Races in SL and also Allied Races are just an excuse for Blizzard to not make starting zones. They need to add normal races to the game which you can start playing from lvl1 and not races that you need to grind for and then reroll.

[Eosia]

Only if they got wings. otherwise, they're useless. and those are the type that will be joining us.

Oh? So you have first-hand knowledge of Blizzard's plans? Cite your source confirming this plz.

Allied Races are just an excuse for Blizzard to not make starting zones.

No, it's a way to add new races without having to shoe-horn them in historically. Keep in mind the old leveling path. Using the end of BfA as "current", we started our our heroic journey 10 years in the past, the Cataclysm caused by Deathwing. We then level to 60, travel back in time 4 years to Burning Crusade for 60-70, move forward another 2 years to Wrath for 70-80, then return to the time we started for 80-85, advance two years for 85-90, and so on.

If they had kept that, they would have had to come up with shoe-horn after shoe-horn to explain why each new race was around at the time Deathwing re-emerged. So instead they fixed it so that each new race joins us in the present. They cannot get rid of the time warp, but the allied race concept eliminates the need for the shoe-horns.

[Melusine]

Worgen and Undead don't have allied race counterparts yet. These 2 fit perfectly

Slyvar: Satyr-like bestial humanoid like worgen,stands upright, has connections with night elves and worgen
because of similar beliefs. Has horns and hooves like draenei. Looks badass. Furry. From Ardenweald.

Venthyr: First true vampire race. Finally vampire vs. werewolf trope can be a thing in WoW with worgen vs venthyr.
Upright undead. Looks badass. From Revendreth.

blue human Kyrian and Maldraxxus dead human are not nearly as interesting as these two races above.
Also Ardenweald fairies can technically fly, whereas no other race can at the moment so they're out.

As interesting as that is, what if, instead of the races being on the allied races or heroic races format, what if instead, you could turn your character into whatever covenant race you leveled up and finished off as?

[RobertMugabe]

No, it's a way to add new races without having to shoe-horn them in historically. Keep in mind the old leveling path. Using the end of BfA as "current", we started our our heroic journey 10 years in the past, the Cataclysm caused by Deathwing. We then level to 60, travel back in time 4 years to Burning Crusade for 60-70, move forward another 2 years to Wrath for 70-80, then return to the time we started for 80-85, advance two years for 85-90, and so on.

If they had kept that, they would have had to come up with shoe-horn after shoe-horn to explain why each new race was around at the time Deathwing re-emerged. So instead they fixed it so that each new race joins us in the present. They cannot get rid of the time warp, but the allied race concept eliminates the need for the shoe-horns.

This was a sorta valid argument until they revamped the leveling in SL though as all the past expansions can only be "properly" played by activating chromie time.

[Garretdejiko]

I rather have more customization for the existing races. None of the SL "races" have a real reason to exit the Shadowlands, their purpouse doesn't end with us defeating the Jailer. Kyrians still have to ferry souls to through the veils, Night Faes willl still have to tend to wild spirits, Necrolords seem to have huge fun in Maldraxxus by fighting all the time and defending the Shadowlands and Venthyrs will still have to torment souls for attonement.

Still waiting for Forest trolls, though.

Beings from another plane of existence should not join the mortal factions. It's as if angels were real in our world and they would suddenly join the American army to participate in some petty squabble with another country. Why?

It could work if a couple of Shadowland denizens came to azeroth as NPCs, but that's it.

[howdy]

No, fuck that shit. If they were to add the covenants as allied races, then they should add all of them and make all of them neutral.

Also Sylvar look like shit and don't fit the Alliance specifically at all. If anything, what the Alliance does not need right now is a race that is really similar to existing ones and same goes for Horde. If your suggestion actually came forward, then Venthyr go to the Alliance and Sylvar to the Horde.

That being said, I don't think we will get any Allied Races in SL and also Allied Races are just an excuse for Blizzard to not make starting zones. They need to add normal races to the game which you can start playing from lvl1 and not races that you need to grind for and then reroll.

Neutral would not makes sense, whatsoever.
Sylvar fit the Night elves which, are in the Alliance.
Venthyr fit the Horde as a vampire race.

Oh? So you have first-hand knowledge of Blizzard's plans? Cite your source confirming this plz.

Simple. Model-wise, they don't add races with wings because it interferes.

I rather have more customization for the existing races. None of the SL "races" have a real reason to exit the Shadowlands, their purpouse doesn't end with us defeating the Jailer. Kyrians still have to ferry souls to through the veils, Night Faes willl still have to tend to wild spirits, Necrolords seem to have huge fun in Maldraxxus by fighting all the time and defending the Shadowlands and Venthyrs will still have to torment souls for attonement.

Still waiting for Forest trolls, though.

They would still do it. Not all of them will join us. And we don't know how Sylavanas' plan to tear it all apart is coming along. So, in the end, they might not even need to.

As for Forest Trolls, the lack of them in the troll customization options of Shadowlands is a good sign.

[RobertMugabe]

Sylvar fit the Night elves which, are in the Alliance.

No they don't.

Venthyr fit the Horde as a vampire race.

No they don't.

In both cases there is absolutely nothing that suggests that either fits one particular race or faction. Actually, exactly the opposite is true. The dead are joining either of these covenants and becoming one of them, regardless of their previous race or faction allegiance. This isn't even an opinion, you're just clueless.

edit: Also, nice new account. Main account got perma banned for posting nonsense and trolling?

[howdy]

No they don't.



No they don't.

In both cases there is absolutely nothing that suggests that either fits one particular race or faction. Actually, exactly the opposite is true. The dead are joining either of these covenants and becoming one of them, regardless of their previous race or faction allegiance. This isn't even an opinion, you're just clueless.

Then, i guess you don't see the connection between Wild Gods, Groves, Night Time, Moonlit Trees, Shooting Stars, Ysera, Cenarius, Night Warrior, Woodland Fauna and Flora, Druidism and Night elves.

You don't see the connection between the arrogance, snobbery, High class society, draining anima/magic, hunger for power, Anima/magic addiction, Withered/Wretched and Ash Ghouls, class division, Kael'thas Sunstrider and Blood elves?

Actually, not all souls go to these places.
Only those with a deep connection to the wilds, like Druids and Hunters go to Ardenweald. You know who was the example soul at Blizzcon? Cenarius.
Mostly those with great pride go to Revendreth, like Garrosh with his Sha of Pride. You know who was the example soul at Blizzcon? Kael'thas Sunstrider.

[ABK Morgan]

I believe only the Venthyr rely on anima for sustenance, like the vampire they are.
Kyrians use it for their constructs, Sylvar use it for their groves and wildseeds, and Necrolords use it for their constructs, as well, i think.

.

I didnt mean "feed" as in food, or a way you remain sane, i meant it as a "link" to the shadowlands.

[shoc]

No they don't.



No they don't.

In both cases there is absolutely nothing that suggests that either fits one particular race or faction. Actually, exactly the opposite is true. The dead are joining either of these covenants and becoming one of them, regardless of their previous race or faction allegiance. This isn't even an opinion, you're just clueless.

edit: Also, nice new account. Main account got perma banned for posting nonsense and trolling?

They aren't dead, or undead. The Shadowlands are where mortal souls go when they die but its a living breathing realm full of life, as per Odyn book.

There's several references to Kyrian and Night Fae talking about visiting our world someday.

The Nathrezim are natives to the Shadowlands and they have been mucking around in reality for thousands of years.

The Mawsworn were part of the Scourge invasion of Azeroth.

So you couldn't be more wrong dude. Ironic calling someone clueless when its you that's clueless. Do people like you even play the game or did you get all your lore from the Blizzcon reveal trailer and call it a day.