officially confirmerd do 50% less damage then even worst damage dealers...

[LordVargK]

i explain two times in one post for animals like you why in reality margin is even more...

As a player of the class that has suffered heavily because of the introduction of DHs I have zero sympathy for you. None. Havoc is the spec for players that want to play melee but really can't play it. In their target audience DHs will be as successful as ever.
You compare DHs with rogues, when a rogue is 10 times more complicated to play.

And to quote you:

and the worst thing is dh comunity leaders like Kib who write dh guides for wowhead etc that thrash talk about ...”everything is fine.... cocococo... we are midpack....”. instead of bring light to the problem and with support of community force blizzard to do something they only thrash talk about “dont worry be happy”.

maybe, just maybe, you're the one talking trash and people who actually know what they're talking about are right here.

[TheLucky1]

i explain two times in one post for animals like you why in reality margin is even more...

Ok so i will explain to you now why it doesn't matter in the slightest.

1. Simulationcraft patchwerk while often accurate did never represent the dominating specs you'll see in hc and mythic that will be shown 1-2 weeks from now on on actual Warcraftlog data accurately.

2. A class/spec is more than it's pure output, just look at historical m+ data on class popularity.

3. We have a big prepatch and giant stat/level squish behind us, there has always been a big balancing patch short before the mythic raid opens, so hold your horses.

4. You are not helping your case by betitling others as animals and playing the victim game, DH where and are a very healthy and popular class for the last 4 years and you will survive 2-3 weeks being at the bottom, you just look like a mad kid right now.

Same goes for the others here and their belitling/jealous comments about demon hunters in the past, with that logic my country would still be fighting france and england, thank god most adults don't think like that.

[Hero2Zer0]

Good maybe you will drop below Survival and you will see how it feels to not even be looked at.

[Clawsout]

Think you got it bad try being feral druid where ppl just hate you for not being range shitty damage aside

[gcsmith]

Good maybe you will drop below Survival and you will see how it feels to not even be looked at.

Really? You know you have 2 other dps specs, meanwhile DH don't.

[Derpleton]

Really? You know you have 2 other dps specs, meanwhile DH don't.

^ This right here is one of our biggest problems, sure Havoc might be shit every spec spends its time in the gutter at one point or another it seems. But other classes generally have an out, Fire Mage is bad? Go play Frost or Arcane. Survival Hunter is bad, still have BM and MM. Havoc is bad? Reroll.

Demon Hunter's are at their core an unfinished class that is missing a third spec (preferably a ranged spec based around glaive tossing/fel bombarding think hunter/warlock hybrid)

[La]

Anyone who uses "You were good during x, now that you're shit it's totally justified!" is a complete idiot. We get it, you played some garbage bottom of the pack DPS, while hating every single spec above you. So now that you are maybe not at the bottom and one of the specs always out performing you are lower you want to say idiotic things.

That being said, yeah, there is always balance patches and Blizzard was behind on balance in the beta, so they probably have been working on a really large balance patch for heroic, that will then be adjusted again for mythic. No need to overreact about it, but that doesn't mean people can't be concerned.

[Lolites]

enhance - 4500 https://bloodmallet.com/chart/shaman...stingpatchwerk
shadowp - 4600 https://bloodmallet.com/chart/priest...stingpatchwerk
subr - 4400 https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/...stingpatchwerk
dh - 2900 https://bloodmallet.com/chart/demon_...stingpatchwerk

your own link shows DH doing over 3900...

[Rinaul]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...Nmi9k/pubhtml#

the only reason people play dh is not numbers or easyness of the class but feelings like you play diablo 3 or path of exile instead of wow. it's only class in the game that play like this. thats why so many people play it while it have so low damage numbers even in legion/bfa... now instead of make at least several class fun as dh they just nerf every single aspect of dh to the ground to force people leave dh...
1. they remove heal from meta
2. they remove dodge frome blade dance
3. they even make our save 20% instead of 35% while rogue have 5 saves better then our single one...
4. they tweak numbers so dh do maximum 2/3 damage of 2nd worst class...
5. they remove burst dps at all so in short boss fights in mythic+ we do less then half damage of proper damage dealers

I played it for the dumb numbers and easy 4 button rotation in bfa.

- - - Updated - - -

^ This right here is one of our biggest problems, sure Havoc might be shit every spec spends its time in the gutter at one point or another it seems. But other classes generally have an out, Fire Mage is bad? Go play Frost or Arcane. Survival Hunter is bad, still have BM and MM. Havoc is bad? Reroll.

Demon Hunter's are at their core an unfinished class that is missing a third spec (preferably a ranged spec based around glaive tossing/fel bombarding think hunter/warlock hybrid)

Windwalker says hello.

[MatthewOU2015]

Anyone who uses "You were good during x, now that you're shit it's totally justified!" is a complete idiot. We get it, you played some garbage bottom of the pack DPS, while hating every single spec above you. So now that you are maybe not at the bottom and one of the specs always out performing you are lower you want to say idiotic things.

That being said, yeah, there is always balance patches and Blizzard was behind on balance in the beta, so they probably have been working on a really large balance patch for heroic, that will then be adjusted again for mythic. No need to overreact about it, but that doesn't mean people can't be concerned.

Dont be mad that its true.

[Hitei]

Windwalker says hello.

Or shadow for much of the game's history, or Ret.

[Stacie]

Please refrain from personal insults in your responses guys.

The class is semi rough right now, wait till balancing happens its clear a tuning patch will happen in the near future and I expect we will see some impactful changes along with it.

Insulting each other here, calling the spec a 3 button spec and all the other stuff won't solve our issues. Lets try be a little more constructive about what the issues are.

[Derpleton]

Windwalker says hello.

And I feel for Monks as well, quite honestly its where I'd reroll to if Blizzard didn't hate Monks as well. I prefer high mobility classes and so I love my DH but I don't love get wrecked on the meters for no fault of my own and in single target situations that's what I've observed so far where I used to be pretty dominant or at least on par with other skilled players.

- - - Updated - - -

Or shadow for much of the game's history, or Ret.

As a ret that converted to a DH for the high mobility and to get out of the wheelchair it would be nice if Blizzard could just stop shitting on classes in general it's all or nothing with their balance it seems

[Lucavian]

enhance - 4500 https://bloodmallet.com/chart/shaman...stingpatchwerk
shadowp - 4600 https://bloodmallet.com/chart/priest...stingpatchwerk
subr - 4400 https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/...stingpatchwerk
dh - 2900 https://bloodmallet.com/chart/demon_...stingpatchwerk

Those links aren't dps ratings, it's the ratings for the different soulbinds. Here are sims for just dps:
http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/PR_Raid.html (which puts DH at 3600 not 2900) and still they're just sims and they haven't done the post-heroic balancing.

[Beloren]

Weren't you guys FOTM throughout the entire legion and BFA?

You know right. The honeymoon is over.

They just can't accept the DKs as the superior hero class. A class so easy to play shouldn't do such high dps.

And no, it's not your fault it's the developers. DHs in Legion had at least several playstyle options, using some of htem required a lot of skill - and you had to nkow which ones to switch to keep on top of the meters.

They turned you into demon metamoprhosis one spec, one trick ponies in BFA but kept your dps ridiculous high for mashing one button - they refused to make you more interesting but correctly reduced your dps in line with your simplicity.

you can't have easy play and high dps at the same time.. you were lucky they kept it up for BFA, but why do you expect it to continue now?

[Derpleton]

you can't have easy play and high dps at the same time.. you were lucky they kept it up for BFA, but why do you expect it to continue now?

I don't know anyone who is advocating for a one button spec, is it ok for there to be a build that favors simplicity but won't top the meters? Sure. But when that's your only viable build theres a problem. DH's need a build or a spec that provides better damage and more complexity.

[Lolites]

I played it for the dumb numbers and easy 4 button rotation in bfa.

- - - Updated - - -



Windwalker says hello.

and retri paladin and shadow priest too

[LordVargK]

^ This right here is one of our biggest problems, sure Havoc might be shit every spec spends its time in the gutter at one point or another it seems. But other classes generally have an out, Fire Mage is bad? Go play Frost or Arcane. Survival Hunter is bad, still have BM and MM. Havoc is bad? Reroll.

Demon Hunter's are at their core an unfinished class that is missing a third spec (preferably a ranged spec based around glaive tossing/fel bombarding think hunter/warlock hybrid)

That's the modern hybrid tax. Ask retri palas, WW, Shadows, DKs, Shamans, warriors or druids. Okay, the last 4 have 2 DD specs, but still less than 3. But all of these classes have huge advantages in other areas, namely fast dungeon/raid invites should their DD spec suck. Pure DDs don't have that. Ask any WL in BfA that wanted to play M+...

I'd love a ranged DH spec though. Problem is, that DH already stole many warlock abilities and it barely made 2 specs. There does not seem to be enough material for 3 Warlock AND 3 DH specs.

[Derpleton]

That's the modern hybrid tax. Ask retri palas, WW, Shadows, DKs, Shamans, warriors or druids. Okay, the last 4 have 2 DD specs, but still less than 3. But all of these classes have huge advantages in other areas, namely fast dungeon/raid invites should their DD spec suck. Pure DDs don't have that. Ask any WL in BfA that wanted to play M+...

I'd love a ranged DH spec though. Problem is, that DH already stole many warlock abilities and it barely made 2 specs. There does not seem to be enough material for 3 Warlock AND 3 DH specs.

I just don't get why Blizzard thinks that classes abilities can't be similar. Is it stealing other classes abilities when everyone has an interrupt or a damage reduction? Now the main cross-over that comes to mind between DH's and old warlocks would be Meta. DH Meta is fine but why not reinvent the Warlock iteration of it? Think of all the new demons we saw in Legion why don't Warlocks transform into a more caster-like demon like the Inquistor's or maybe even a Satyr or Shivarra. Could slap some new models on there and bam looks and plays different from the Illidan looking DH iteration of meta which is basically "melee meta" vs the warlock "ranged meta".

[Pury]

Huntards, Demon Huntards and Frost mages are so braindead primitive they don't deserve to be good. If smoothbrain specs are stronger, than a lot more complicated ones, then effort-reward ratio of the game is shit, which is not healthy in long term.